All Monsters Overrated? - Is it just me?

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cobralex297
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Post by cobralex297 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:03 am

I've been thinking about this for a while.
I mean, I definitely like the monster series - I'm the proud owner of a Monster XL and I've owned the Monster (the smallest one) twice before. I think that they're not bad guns at all, definitely better than those coming out today, but from what i've experienced of the performance of the Monster and the Monster XL, and heard of the performance of the MX, it seems that they're all overrated. This seems to be true, yet they're one of the most hyped-up series of blasters to come out. I guess that means that they're all terribly overrated.
I mean, I love my MXL but i still can't find a practical use for it.

Now that that's said, ... if anyone has a Monster X for sale, i'll buy it...
(i say that as a collector, not a warrior)

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Post by WaterWolf » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:26 am

My team recently acquired a Monster X (Not for sale) and a Monster XL. If they don't turn out to be battle-practical, I'm thinking of perhaps Colossus modding them.

BTW, has anybody here ever tried installing a new pressure release valve when they are doing a Colossus or K-mod?
If you calibrated the valve right, it would still allow you to charge the gun to its full capacity, but prevent you from blowing up the pressure-chamber.
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Post by isoaker » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:55 am

Are All Monsters Overrated?

This is an incomplete question. It really depends on who is doing the talking. I enjoy using pretty much all stock soakers, but had found the Monster-series slightly less powerful than the earlier CPS-named-series of blasters. The measured stats agreed with the stream behaviour. Now, to those who go for power-modding soakers and/or building forms of powerful homemade water guns, I may appear to overrate most stock soakers. :goofy:

Whether someone overrates something or not is typically determined by their experiences with things. For someone who had only previously used dime-store water pistols, the Monster-series would feel revolutionary. For those who go for building water cannons, they may appreciate the indimidating look of the Monster-series, but they also know that more power can be harnessed using better pressure chamber and nozzle systems.

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Post by SSCBen » Fri Aug 03, 2007 7:28 am

I always thought the Monster series was a little overrated after taking a hard look at the statistics. Their output is good, but their range is lower than that of previous CPS water guns. This likely was due to the SC feature, which requires a weaker CPS chamber so that all hose systems can fill it. I personally would avoid the Monsters not only for the lack of power, but also the high selling price. If I had one I would sell it. :goofy:
BTW, has anybody here ever tried installing a new pressure release valve when they are doing a Colossus or K-mod?
If you calibrated the valve right, it would still allow you to charge the gun to its full capacity, but prevent you from blowing up the pressure-chamber.


No one as far as I know has replaced the pressure relief valve. That modification seems a little more involved than doing nothing or removing it. Attaching two pieces of pipe with a coupler is easy. With this you have to join two pieces of pipe without a coupler, and that alone can be a problem. You'll also need a union fitting because you can't tighten one side without loosening the other. The pressure relief valves I've seen also are bigger than the space of the removed valve. You'll have to use some small pipe to first move the valve to a place where there is enough room for it. That also might involve some cutting of the case.

Replacing the valve definitely isn't impossible, but it would be an involved process the easiest way I could see it happening. I personally would suggest leaving the valve alone because replacing it seems a little too involved to me.

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Post by cobralex297 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:12 am

It just seems to me that, for all the attention that they get, they're really not that awesome. I mean, they're quite fun to use and stuff, but in terms of battle practicality, and the ratio between size and power, they are lacking definitely.

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Post by WaterWolf » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:20 am

So if you leave the stock pressure-release valve in a gun when you mod it, will you still get the boost in power? Or not as much of it?
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Post by SSCBen » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:27 am

WaterWolf wrote:So if you leave the stock pressure-release valve in a gun when you mod it, will you still get the boost in power? Or not as much of it?
The problem isn't that you won't get a boost in power. You'll definitely get a boost in power with a limited Colossus or K-mod. The problem is that beyond a certain amount of layers, that valve opens and any water you pump in will immediately go back into the reservoir. The pressure is relatively constant so this will kick in on the first few pumps if you have more layers than the valve can handle.

One thing I think should be done is a detailed listing of how many balloons are acceptable for a "partial" K-mod or Colossus. These modifications are partial in the sense that they lack the PRV removal. How many balloons are acceptable is up to the individual PRV of the water gun. Most people say generally 20 to 30 balloons can be added without a PRV removal, though, as one who's seen it all since 2002, I know that figure is just a guess at best.

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Post by isoaker » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:32 am

It just seems to me that, for all the attention that they get, they're really not that awesome.

Well, the Monster XL is still *THE* biggest single-piece stock soaker ever made. Add in the bipod and dual-nozzle-selector styling and that can still be pretty awesome to behold in my books. :goofy: My main question is who are you referring to in terms of giving Monsters "all the attention"? Before Water Warriors blasters were known, they basically got nil attention, but that doesn't make them lesser blasters, only ones lacking good PR. The ones who put the MXL (or even the CPS2000) on a pedestal have likely never handled anything better (not necessarily more powerful, but even with respect to better balanced, more battle practical, etc.)

@WaterWolf: stock overpressure release valves will limit the maximum pressure, hence power one can achieve (well, that's what they're designed to do). You can gain some power if you opt to do a power mod without changing the original release valve, but you can't get as high a boost compared to those who freeze or replace them.

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Post by cobralex297 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 9:55 am

By attention...
Well, this is what I'm saying... a few days ago, a MX sold on ebay for 120.00+, and maybe 10 days ago one sold for around 160, MXLs have been selling for over 100 always, sometimes over 200-250! Guns that are much more practically better, like the 1200, 1500 (1500 especially), sell for around 30. I guess by attention, I mean to say... what they are selling at, and stuff.

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Post by HBWW » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:34 am

I've been struggling with getting 1500's/1700's (don't think I'll have a chance to get one anymore now), they always get at least $40 which is a bit of a stretch out of my ridiculously limited budget for water guns.

Anyways, I haven't handled a monster myself to decide on whether it's overrated or not, but I have fought a 2002 monster with my CPS 2700. I can say, they're fairly on even ground, but others who were playing did feel that the monster was quite powerful and high-ranged. (including those who were wielding my 1000, 1200, and 2100.) Unfortunately, the game had to end before I could get a chance to handle it. (so I never got to) My other friend seems to like that gun a lot. (he seems to like it better than the 2000 and 2500 and of course, the 2700)
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Post by cobralex297 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 10:46 am

It's good to hear other people's perspectives, I'm quite interested. I suppose comparing to a 2700 is definitely fair. Having owned both, I'd definitely spring for the 2700 in a battle.

Trying to maneuver with the XL is a large pain, and I am positive that with my miniscule shot times and extremely long pump-times, I could be outmaneuvered by one of my unskilled friends with a 2100. All they'd have to do would be to fake me out once or twice, and I'd be out of pressure and then... I'm dead!

I'd happily go against a MXL with a 1200/2100, knowing from experience the difficulty of use.
Much of the effect that the XL has on another person is in intimidation, and the user must heavily rely on that.

That being said, the XL is a staple of my armory, as it is one for every large collection. Having and using one is a fun experience, often simply to see the look on people's faces upon sight, or when it is pointed at them.

Here's my armory, if anyone's interested :-P
http://www.isoaker.com/mySoaker/Gallery ... bralex.cfm
isoaker was just kind enough to upload the pictures, i'm glad to show them off ... ... :-D

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Post by WaterWolf » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:37 am

Woh :cool:.
Looks like you've grabbed every soaker you could lay your hands on. You could easily supply a large team with that much heavy weaponry.
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Post by Aqua_Flash » Fri Aug 03, 2007 11:51 am

The biggest reason why I sold my Monster XL a few weeks ago was simply due to its unpracticality. I think the last time I battled with my Monster XL was in like late 2005, and no matter how hard I tried the weight and real bad mobility meant I got swamped by CPS 1500's (I lend all my guns out), even though I soaked the people I battled with, it was far less frequently. I pretty much stopped using it, like said it looks cool, but other than that you really can't do well with it in the thick of a battle. Its a gun that comes more for looks, but because of that I've learned its not worth wasting all that money on it just for that, for me since I didn't use it, it would be like paying for nothing in a way.

The Monster X though is a bit different, its much more useful when I had some. If you use it well despite not being the most powerful you can do a considerable amount of damage with them. Being more mobile combined with good range makes them much more effective in the thick of the action, but again they still have problems against other CPS guns its size like the 2500 and 2700, as fighting with those is again just much easier and effective if you ask me.

While I think Monster guns are good and unique, they aren't the best by far, you can still get better CPS guns made at around their time for way cheaper and be a lot more effective. When I started getting CPS 1200's, 1500/1700's and 2500's after or just around the time I had some of the Monster guns I kinda went off the Monster line, and going back to what I said first when the XL was used in battles with these it didn't do too well.

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Post by DX » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:36 pm

One thing I think should be done is a detailed listing of how many balloons are acceptable for a "partial" K-mod or Colossus. These modifications are partial in the sense that they lack the PRV removal. How many balloons are acceptable is up to the individual PRV of the water gun. Most people say generally 20 to 30 balloons can be added without a PRV removal, though, as one who's seen it all since 2002, I know that figure is just a guess at best.


I've brought that subject up before and it raised 0 interest. I wanted to know what was optimal, but so far have had to find out the old-fashioned way. I've light K'ed a 1-3-5, 1000, 1200, 1500, and 2100, as well as seen the reaction of several light integrations. In the past, 20-30 balloons has been recommended because people saw a pattern.

I think that performance of a limited K is parabolic, like the performance of a heavy K. Too few balloons and you get little power. Too many and the PRV kicks in too soon to utilize the power. Somewhere in the middle, in the 15-35 balloon range, is where the balance of pumps to balloons allows for the best power. The higher the HPL, the higher that optimal middle is and vice versa. That's why the CPS 2100 can't really take many balloons, but the CPS 1200 can still get more than 10 pumps with 45 balloons on it.

Now that folks, is a perfect example of thread-hijacking. That's the proper way to do it. :laugh:

Monsters can be good guns, but it all depends on a laundry list of factors - what type of battlefield, the size, local terrain, what the game type is, how many people are playing, their ages, their guns, their skill, their experience, their physical ability, how fast they improve, even things like the pace of the war. On the hardcore battlefield, the MX is a pretty decent gun, as the Monster 01 would be. In the hands of the right kind of user, no mobility is lost. The MXL is another story, however, as it has poor range and an abysmal power to size ratio. Its greatest strength is probably sheer intimidation, an idea that my team does not recognize.

If I had an MXL, I wouldn't use it - I'd simply sell it. Personally, I'd rather fight with a mid-size CPS or a large CPS that still has a great P:S, like a 1500 or 2500.
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Post by cobralex297 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 12:45 pm

I guess i'll have to hijack my own thread, speaking with regard to the detailed listing on the subject of balloon tolerance/LRT tolerance for various guns. It's too bad that nobody has the time or the desire to actually get something like this done. It seems like it would be extremely helpful. If I had the requisite K-Modding experience to test out every gun, I certainly would, as I've got most of the guns that would be in the list on hand, I just lack the know-how to do the mods.

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Post by DX » Fri Aug 03, 2007 1:06 pm

I'd do it, but I'm missing guns. I already know how the 1000 and 1200 do with various amounts up to 45 balloons, but my knowledge is woefully empty with the 1500, 2100, and 1-3-5. Actually, I could do them all except the 1-3-5, and while I have a 1-3-5 pc, testing in an integration isn't going to give the same results as in the original host.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Post by WaterWolf » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:52 pm

So how does a 1000 with a 45-balloon K-mod behave? And is this with or without the pressure-relief valve?
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Post by cobralex297 » Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:57 pm

I think that at this time, Duxburian doesn't do check valve freezes on his guns, simply to preserve them. He's had bad experiences, I guess. I'm not sure what the performance is like that, but I can answer part of your question for you.. :-P

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Post by isoaker » Fri Aug 03, 2007 5:54 pm

This is a well hijacked thread. :goofy: Thread moved, but original topic title remains as a link.

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Post by DX » Fri Aug 03, 2007 6:25 pm

The creator opened the door. Give people an inch and they'll take a mile. :p

My CPS 10K [of unknown mark] at 45 balloons shot like a CPS 21K with about 55 balloons. Fast stream speed, butchered shot time, mid-40s range. Currently it sits at 40 balloons, nearly the same performance, but there's a slight bit more water in each shot, and it has slightly less distance.

At this point in time, I'm not recommending the heavy K's of old, unless the mod is so heavy that the bloated pc hits the casing walls before you can overpump it.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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