2018 WWN League Season Opener

Discussion of past, present, and future water war events.
marauder
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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by marauder » Thu May 10, 2018 8:37 am

I apologize for the double post, but there is some important information I need to put out. First, I am trading Aaron for Tony. Since Aaron and Noah are both new, and both only in 8th grade I feel responsible for them. I cannot take any chance that they wander off, so teams are now going to be the following:

Marauder, DX, Area 51, Aaron, Noah vs SEAL, Scott, the Oncoming Storm, David, Tony

I have not had enough time to fix many of my guns. I have certainly made progress, but not completely. We may only have 1 CPS among us. This may be the first (?) time Rob and I are on the same team and lose not just a battle but an entire war.

Second, please orient yourself to the map below. I am working on a much better topo map including a much more accurate illustration of Little Creek and other water ways than what is available online. I took track my hike app and literally walked or kayaked all of the waterways in this area. Unfortunately this is not available at this time, so you will have to make due with the ms paint + google maps mashup below:
Untitled.png
Untitled.png (819.36 KiB) Viewed 1398 times
Please do NOT wander off into the hashed out area in red. There is a hunt club to the north that you must avoid at all costs. I understand that this is not hunting season, but I have seen people down there on multiple occasions. Little Creek goes under Ranch RD, through the woods, and then meets a tributary (which incorrectly looks larger on Google Maps) that joins it in an open area full of cat tails. Feel free to move about this open area in the cat tails but do not go north of this tributary.

Seal's team will park in the Hidden Hills neighborhood at the junction of Cruz Jeffries and Canyon Rd. This is off of Ranch RD and marked by the big red X. I know you are familiar with this parking location, but I will drive SEAL out there personally to do a reconnaissance so that he knows exactly where to park. Once you are there, please unload quickly, check for traffic on Ranch RD and immediately run up the dead end paved ramp across the road from you. Once you reach the forest you are safe to move slowly/tactically as you wish.

Both teams must move toward the other team until first contact is initiated. You can move slowly and tactically, you can pause for 5 minutes for observation purposes, but you cannot camp out. If you spot the enemy and you stay in one spot longer than 5 minutes because you are springing an ambush that is ok. You have eyes on the enemy and you are plotting an ambush, that does not count as camping.

If you feel water you are hit.
Respawn time is a full minute behind friendly lines. Yell clear when you return to battle.
Planned fight time is 11 AM to 5 PM, but since we are fighting one long continuous battle this is flexible.
Bring sleeping bags if you have them.

Teams should bring sidearms. I recommend 2 per team, not including pistols. Don't bring so much gear that you are standing by your car for 5 minutes trying to unload. Bring just enough.

I have a Go Pro Hero 5 Black that I will be using. DX's action cams are down and Scott is not bringing his because the quality will not match my new cam. I need to know if David is bringing his cam (someone contact him and post back here) and if so what settings he has available to shoot with. If my camera is the only one available then I will probably pass it around from person to person to get multiple perspectives. Rob, please bring your real camera to film with on Sunday. Also, please post the video from last war to youtube and post us a link. I have several people who want to see it. Sunday will be for shooting staged footage. We have some awesome staged footage from last year or maybe it was 2016. There's some great shots of Keith and I assaulting the dam, of Tony falling in the water, etc. I am hoping we can make a cool video out of all of that.

Lastly, it is going to be hot. Hydrate today and Friday. Drinking a bunch of water on Saturday will only make up for what you sweat out. Real hydration begins the day before. I know many of y'all don't like to eat healthy, but if you can get some clean food in the day before and avoid soft drinks and fast food. This is super important because of the weather.
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SEAL wrote:If you ain't bloody and muddy by the end of the day, you went to a Nerf war.

scottthewaterwarrior
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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by scottthewaterwarrior » Thu May 10, 2018 9:13 am

Hydrate a bunch durring a 6-7 hour car trip? That sounds like a good idea! What could go wrong?

Sarcasm aside, thanks for the advice on things, might not be possible this war, but useful knowledge for my next local one.

Also I realize one of my friends actually has a Go-Pro, I will try to inquire about borrowing it.
"If you are wet at the end of a water war, you are doing it wrong"
Van: "What happened?" SEAL: "Scott Happened"
Alex: "But the stream is cold." Me: "It's fine, my feet really hurt, now they're numb!"

marauder
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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by marauder » Thu May 10, 2018 10:02 am

scottthewaterwarrior wrote:Hydrate a bunch durring a 6-7 hour car trip? That sounds like a good idea! What could go wrong?

Sarcasm aside, thanks for the advice on things, might not be possible this war, but useful knowledge for my next local one.

Also I realize one of my friends actually has a Go-Pro, I will try to inquire about borrowing it.

Pee in a bottle :lol:

And yeah, if you could get that GoPro that would be great. BTW, I have been charting our attendance at wars and this will be the first double digit war since Soakremore... you got something in the works for this year?
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SEAL wrote:If you ain't bloody and muddy by the end of the day, you went to a Nerf war.

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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by SEAL » Thu May 10, 2018 3:55 pm

Respawn time is a full minute behind friendly lines. Yell clear when you return to battle.
I put down two minutes. Don't you think it would be better to have it longer rather than shorter? I feel like if the respawn times are too short, that leads to the battle staying in the same place too much.

Also, I will bring index cards in ziploc bags for use while respawning. If you get hit and have to respawn, pull out the card an write a tally mark on it. Don't bother with names or anything; at the end of the war we will simply count up the tally marks to determine the winner. That way there are no egos and BS like that involved.
Teams should bring sidearms. I recommend 2 per team, not including pistols. Don't bring so much gear that you are standing by your car for 5 minutes trying to unload. Bring just enough.
Agreed. We don't stop the battle for broken guns, so have backups. Doesn't matter if you cache them or carry them with you, but have some kind of plan.
Sunday will be for shooting staged footage.
Unfortunately it doesn't look like I'll be able to stick around very long on Sunday, and will probably have to leave soon after waking up. But, I can bring my USB stick to get footage for me and my brother to mess around with. We have some big plans.
I know many of y'all don't like to eat healthy
:lol:

Of course I can't laugh too hard because I have issues with my diet as well. But while I don't always eat super healthy foods, at least I stay away from junk. I heard somewhere that more than half the population of the US is overweight. That is absolutely incredulous.
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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by scottthewaterwarrior » Thu May 10, 2018 11:13 pm

SEAL wrote: Of course I can't laugh too hard because I have issues with my diet as well. But while I don't always eat super healthy foods, at least I stay away from junk. I heard somewhere that more than half the population of the US is overweight. That is absolutely incredulous.
Well yeah, the IIHS (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety) recently even started using "obese" crash test dummies!
I eat reasonably healthy (at least compared to the average American), main issue I have is lack of exercise. Kind of a chicken and egg problem with that one: I get stressed a lot, and when I'm stressed I just want to play video games. Exercise would help reduce stress, but I need to reduce my stress so that I can exercise!
"If you are wet at the end of a water war, you are doing it wrong"
Van: "What happened?" SEAL: "Scott Happened"
Alex: "But the stream is cold." Me: "It's fine, my feet really hurt, now they're numb!"

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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by scottthewaterwarrior » Fri May 11, 2018 1:40 pm

Well David missed his bus, so he wont even get to my place until after 4pm. At this rate I am just hoping we make it by 11pm.
"If you are wet at the end of a water war, you are doing it wrong"
Van: "What happened?" SEAL: "Scott Happened"
Alex: "But the stream is cold." Me: "It's fine, my feet really hurt, now they're numb!"

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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by SEAL » Fri May 11, 2018 3:39 pm

I'm going to leave in maybe half an hour or so. I'm hoping to get there around 8PM assuming the traffic is favorable and I don't get lost again. See you all this evening!
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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by marauder » Mon May 14, 2018 11:22 am

Thank you to everyone who came out. This ended up being a great meet up. I may actually end up writing a war story for this one. It was definitely worth it. I also have some still shots and video footage to share with everyone. Until then, here's a brief write up -

We played one long OHS battle from 11:30 to 3:15 at Little Creek

Marauder, XP Pool Pumper Blaster
Duxburian, CPS 1200
Area 51, CPS 1000
Noah, SC 600

vs

SEAL, CPS 2000
David, CPS 2000
Storm, SS 300
Scott, CPS 1000
Tony, CPS 1000

Each team started at opposite ends of the battlefield, which is almost a mile apart, per Google Maps, and was definitely over a mile when you count the hills, twists and turns, etc. We ended up hunting the enemy for over an hour before initial contact was made. I became concerned because I we had a new player on our team and I wanted to ensure that he was having a good time and not just hiking across difficult terrain in 95 degree heat. I think we covered the entire battlefield twice looking for them. I even went so far as to check our parking location and their parking location just to ensure they had successfully made it to the battle. Between the hunt club to the north and having a new player I wanted to make sure everything was ok, so we began calling their names.

Shortly after seeing their vehicles and then making it back into the battlefield I spotted them lying in ambush by a tributary creek. I played it off like I didn't see them, but tried to spread the word to Daniel to ready our troops for battle. My plan was to have DX and Noah go up the field to their right to flank while Danny and I (who were in their line of sight) served as a distraction. Even though they had lost the element of surprise they still pulled off the ambush. We were out of range, but they charged forward and we were too slow to react. Our guys were already spread out about 30m apart, but we were also in awkward positions. They surged over the bank and out of their hiding spot. I fired an initial shot and tried to turn around but got hosed down by SEAL's 2000 while simultaneously slipping in the mud. The hose popped out of my PPB and sprayed everywhere. Noah was also gunned down, but he managed to pull off a double kill.

Everything started out wrong and it only got worse from there for the next 20 minutes. I will save the rest of the writeup for later, but we managed to win back the momentum for the second half of battle. We called off the fight around 3:15 because Noah wanted to go home and Rob was suffering from heat exhaustion. The enemy agreed to end the battle in order to cool off and get some lunch. No one knew who was ahead at the time or who had won the battle. SEAL had a great idea of bringing notecards and pens for everyone to keep track of their hits. When we added things up later my team ended up with the come from behind win 10 to 9.

I think this battle really energized everyone and left everybody wanting to fight a lot more this year. This was definitely a good start to the year. I think we are headed in the right direction.
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SEAL wrote:If you ain't bloody and muddy by the end of the day, you went to a Nerf war.

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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by SEAL » Mon May 14, 2018 5:45 pm

This was one of the best battles I've ever been in, despite the fact that it got cut short. It was probably the hottest war in community history, but to me that was simply another tactical disadvantage to overcome.

We lugged in all our gear from Ranch Rd, which definitely sucked. The terrain was thick and each of us carried two loaded CPS and a backpack. It probably wasn't necessary to bring in four backups, but I've seen plenty of guns fail on the field before, so I wasn't taking any chances. After walking for maybe 15 minutes we cached everything in a thicket of weeds in a location that was rather out of the way from where we expected the fighting to be. Around this time we thought we heard people and David saw something orange through the trees, but by the time we were done stashing our weapons, it was gone. We then moved forward in full attack mode; the battlefield was now a live wire. We moved through the woods slowly, taking periodic breaks for water and energy bars. We found some trampled down grass and followed it for a while. Eventually we found our way to one of the swamps, where we heard the enemy shouting for us. Some of my teammates expected a trap, but I correctly assumed that the enemy was just tired of looking for us and wanted to bring the fight to them.

We followed the whoops and hollers for a while until we finally made our first sighting. Three of us crouched in a ditch and watched them. I saw marauder tell his team to go away without him, which made me suspect that he'd seen us and was plotting something. However once the others got far enough away, we decided to take advantage of his isolation and spring the ambush. However it turned out that he did see us and was able to get away, albeit narrowly. And that kicked off the first skirmish. At one point marauder got stuck in a ditch or something and I was able to hit him, and then David and Noah (I think) double killed, making the score 2-1. We then went up the hill to better hold them off while we caught our breath, but Danny had gone up to the top and blindsided my point man. I never realized he was up there until it was too late, so now we were tied. He ran away and the rest of the other team advanced. But at this point we could just bomb down the hill and run them over. We surrounded DX and David was able to hit him, followed by the oncoming storm taking out Noah. We had a 4-2 lead at this point, so we ran down the hill to disappear into the undergrowth by the creek.

We had a brief celebration, then planned our next move. We could have just ran away and hid, which probably would have won us the game, but while winning was very important, it wasn't as important as having a good time. Running away and hiding is lame, and we wanted to attack again and rack up more hits. We went back towards where we'd left them, and soon came into contact again. This encounter proved more difficult than the first. We made some hits, but so did they. Our team had two CPS 2000s, which meant skirmishing was not the preferred option. Unfortunately that was the only way to fight them in the position they were at. I ended up calling for a retreat after a lot of damage was done to both sides. At this point we no longer knew what the score was.

The third contact happened after we'd regrouped and gone out after them again. We spotted them refilling near the creek, but I think they had already finished by the time we attacked. This engagement was similar to the second one, with us trading hits back and forth. Once again I called for a retreat, when the 2000s started running low. We got away cleanly, and went off to refill. We spent some time doing this and resting, then I came up with a new plan. I wanted to cross the creek to the north side (so far all the action happened on the south), go all the way down the field, cross again, and hit the enemy from an unexpected direction. This might have worked, except that the enemy appeared just after we completed the crossing! Talk about terrible timing for us, and great timing for them. The north side of the creek was a lot thicker and hindered mobility. marauder and Danny crossed farther down and moved towards us from our side, while DX and Noah attacked from the other side. We were going to get surrounded, so we pulled out and made for a field, but David and Tony, who were the last ones out, were not watching the rear and got blindsided by marauder. That was the second time that happened to my team, and it ended up being the winning hit.

We escaped through the field (where we saw a HUGE black snake sitting in one of the pathways), where we could move a lot faster. We eventually made our way back across to the south side of the creek, and went off looking for the enemy again. We originally wanted to draw the fight down towards the dam and overpass areas, but at this point I had a feeling that my team was either behind, or tied with the enemy. I wanted to go get some of our hits back. So we walked for a bit until we heard them, and got into position to charge. However they spotted us and called out that they needed to end the battle to take Noah home. I guess the heat was too much. We talked about resuming later on, but basically once you stop the battle, it's extremely hard to get started again. Even if you can start something, the spell is kinda broken at that point and it won't be the same. We still have yet to complete an actual all-day battle (even if "all-day" simply means noon till dusk), which is very frustrating to some of us who come to the war expecting to get the chance to fight non-stop for the entire day. It's like going to an exciting baseball game that suddenly gets called off in the 5th inning. You almost feel cheated.

But overall it was one of the greatest wars of all time. My team ended up taking the 'L' by just one point: 10-9. I blame this on the fact that although we had the numbers and firepower advantage, we also moved much slower than the enemy. marauder and DX are fast, Danny got very fast, and Noah was no slouch either. It was like a Monster XL vs. a swarm of 150s, or a bomber vs. a squadron of fighter planes. But we still put up a terrific fight, so I have no problem with conceding defeat. True, there were some hits that I think could have and should have been avoided, but that's bound to happen in any war. We'll be back with a vengeance in Game 2! Stay tuned for updates on that, but it will likely happen after the HOG.

I managed to snap a few photos during the battle, mostly during down time. Action shots will have to be grabbed from the Go Pro.

David and the oncoming storm seen through the brush. They were keeping watch while the rest of us cached our extra guns and food.
Image

Tony and Scott in the process of caching stuff.
Image

The whole team minus myself resting shortly before first contact.
Image

A blurry shot (*cough*oncoming storm*cough*) of me looking for the enemy in the undergrowth. I think this was after all the fighting and before we found the enemy for the last time and ended it.
Image

An alternate angle. I wore that backpack the entire war, with nothing but food and water inside. In long battles you have to bring more than just guns.
Image
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scottthewaterwarrior
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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by scottthewaterwarrior » Thu May 17, 2018 7:21 pm

I certainly agree the battle was great, I was surprised we did as well as we did. While we may have been a little slow maneuvering sometimes, it was well coordinated. Rarely did I have to tell teammates to spread out when walking, and they did a good job forming battle lines when we engaged.
I also chose the wrong blaster for this war. The last few wars I have preferred my 10K because it allowed better mobility. But the intense heat effected my energy enough I think I would have been better off with a 2000 or 2500 because of their staying power.

The heat really took its toll though. If Noah and DX hadn't been done, I probably would have only lasted about another hour. Even if I forced myself to keep going, I had no more than two hours of drinking water left. I think I had about 4 litres to begin with!
"If you are wet at the end of a water war, you are doing it wrong"
Van: "What happened?" SEAL: "Scott Happened"
Alex: "But the stream is cold." Me: "It's fine, my feet really hurt, now they're numb!"

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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by Drenchenator » Thu May 17, 2018 10:28 pm

Great write ups, Marauder and Seal! Sounds like it was a great battle! I wish I was there rather than working on my propulsion class homework at the time. The heat kinda sucks I guess, or it was totally appropriate for a water gun fight. I can't decide. It's really good to hear that good battles are still possible. Hopefully next year I can join everyone after I graduate.
The Drenchenator, also known as Lt. Col. Drench

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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by scottthewaterwarrior » Fri May 18, 2018 7:27 pm

Heat is great for big soakfests, not so great for games where the objective is not to get hit. Idealy I don't want it to be over 70 degrees, maybe 75 if it's not humid at all. Above that works, but is rather uncomfortable for me.

I was hardly able to function at this war, 90 is just too hot. Even during the first half, when I was constantly stuffing ice cubes under my hat, I couldn't manage much more then a slow jog.
"If you are wet at the end of a water war, you are doing it wrong"
Van: "What happened?" SEAL: "Scott Happened"
Alex: "But the stream is cold." Me: "It's fine, my feet really hurt, now they're numb!"

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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by DavidTheDankEngine » Fri May 18, 2018 11:36 pm

Just want to say that this war was awesome. Thanks Uncle Ben for letting us come sleep over at your place! Also thanks to Scott for letting me spend so much time at his place as well. Between soaking, thrifting and light saber battles, this was an awesome adventure! Love this community so much, both as a whole and all the individuals in it. You guys are the best.

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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by SEAL » Sat May 19, 2018 12:48 pm

My mom said the same thing. "96 degrees? Oh, that's perfect for a water war!" Except that I never actually got hit, and even those who did get hit only got sprinkled a bit. The only time we got to cool off was in the creek. Hardcore water wars do not mix well with heat. But I enjoy the extra challenge. It's just another obstacle on the way to victory. And trust me, I'm not a warm weather person. I guess I'm just masochistic. XD

I also forgot to mention that this was the first war where we went with the feel-based method, so I should comment on that. To be honest it didn't feel any different than what we've been doing, except that I had to be on my toes a little more, and be sure to dodge the entirety of the stream. Plenty of hits were made during the battle, so it didn't result in more defensive behavior. I'm not sure about hit disputes. I wasn't involved in any, but I seem to remember there was at least one. Theoretically this shouldn't happen because you either feel water or you don't; there's no disputing that. Can anyone who was involved give any input?
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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by HBWW » Sat May 19, 2018 6:21 pm

96°F is A/C and gaming weather, lol.
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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by Anthony » Sun May 20, 2018 12:59 pm

Hi guys i really like the war a whole lot i really want to do this again.The weather was ok but i didn't like standing in the heat to long.So many things that i like but it was hard to choose a favrite.i stayed alive in the battle for a while.i feel like i got better at fighting. i was going across the little creek
river and i fell.And it was hard to get across the river but i still had fun.

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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by scottthewaterwarrior » Sun May 20, 2018 8:33 pm

The only hit I remember being in dispute was between myself and DX. He thought he had shot me, I didn't feel anything, then Marauder got me during our argument. That is actually the second time Marauder has gotten me while in a hit dispute with DX, and that was under the old rules, so this really was about the same, lol!

It is still possible DX did hit me, I know I didn't feel anything, and when I went to look didn't see anything ether, but I was only able to glance at it quickly because I was trying to avoid getting hit by Marauder. That is one of the potential issues I see with the feels rule, because the cloths we wear are often quite thick, it can be difficult to feel when you get hit. Course the old system had its issues too: it could be difficult to see water splashes among the camouflage patters, especially if you were already a little wet.
Both the new and old systems rely on honesty a lot. From the shooter's point of view, it can be difficult to tell a hit from a near miss, especially if you are firing over/through foliage. With the "majority of the stream" rule, people could lie about how much they got hit, with the feel water rule, people can lie about whether they felt anything.

Thankfully it has been a long time since I have seen any egregious BSing of hits. I think the last time was with a certain local friend of mine, who's name will not be publicly posted on this board, at Soakemore. Most of the arguments I have seen or been a part of recently have been honest: two people who are both unsure whether a hit was made.

Personally I still liked the old rules better, but IMO what we really need is a way to settle hit disputes. I think having a temporary pause (ether battle wide or just between the people in dispute) to check cloths for hits and discuss viewpoints might be the way to go. I know it would disrupt the battle a little, but given how rare hit disputes have been the last few wars, it wouldn't be that big an issue and is probably the fairest method. Alternatives have been passed around before, but I felt they would have far worse issues. Always making it a hit/miss by default whenever there is a dispute has the potential to be very unfair to the target/shooter. On the other hand, a 1v1 duel would not only disrupt the battle, but would be very unfair if the hit was between people of different skill levels.
Of course I would be willing to make exceptions for people who are constantly a problem, such as that one local friend (community war vets probably know who) of mine. Like if anyone is blatantly denying hits or disrupting the battle trying to argue every other one, they will just get declared hit by default.
"If you are wet at the end of a water war, you are doing it wrong"
Van: "What happened?" SEAL: "Scott Happened"
Alex: "But the stream is cold." Me: "It's fine, my feet really hurt, now they're numb!"

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Re: 2018 WWN League Season Opener

Post by SEAL » Tue May 22, 2018 6:16 pm

Of course both systems have downsides, but the feel-based one is simpler, so it gets the nod for League battles. And honestly, the point you make about us wearing thick clothing actually makes it kind of similar to the old way anyway. You need to be hit with a more direct stream to feel it.

Hit disputes are a good point. I generally make it a point to avoid them so it hasn't been an issue for me, but I know it can be for others. Honestly? I would just not even worry about it. If you shoot at someone and they don't call it, just assume they didn't feel anything and leave it be. Now, if you pretty obviously hit someone and they still don't take it, especially if this has happened multiple times with that person, then they could be subject to disciplinary action as per WWN rules. If someone is cheating, the game should be paused and the teams should try to work out the problem. If that doesn't work, the offender can be removed from the game or even the whole war.
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