Your Ideal Combat Armament

General questions and discussions on water warfare regarding tactics and strategies.
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marauder
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Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by marauder » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:00 pm

Alright, you have been invited to a massive team based all day war at the park. Teams will be created out of those who show up. Battles will be 1 hit elimination capture the flag. Terrain is mixed between open lawns, forests, gardens, and small buildings. Each base will have 2 hoses, a few buckets, and a QFD.

You are allowed to bring as many guns and as much equipment as you like, with the only requirement being that it cannot exceed what you can carry all at once.

What do you arm yourself with?
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by HBWW » Sun Apr 17, 2011 12:04 am

" Battles will be 1 hit elim-"
Pretty much any CPS series (except an unmodded 1-3-5) or Monster.

Sidearm has always been a Max-D 2k, though I may have to step up to a 3k for this, or perhaps a Liquidator.

However, since I only have the 2k and 3k, and the CPS 12k (have to borrow the 2500 and 2000 from a friend, and probably can't mod the 2000), I'll be stuck with the 12k and 3k.

I'll also bring my 2 VHS's for the hoses (eliminating the need for the QFD), a backpack of water bottles and solar shower (the backpack will serve as a semi-mobile refill station), some water balloon canisters/containers, and a small back of about 50-100 unfilled water balloons to prepare at the war.

The refilling equipment is probably completely unnecessary since only elimination is being played.
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by DX » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:54 am

With elimination, I want range and agility over firepower. That means rocking just one gun and with some open terrain in the picture, that's a CPS 2000. I want my longer range shots to stay together when wind is a factor, which favors the juicier 2000 over the raw K-modded streams. With large teams, needing to refill more often is not a problem since there would be plenty of people to cover me.

2nd choice would be a 2500 for its skirmishing ability, longer time in between refills, and its field-filling ability for water balloons. Tossing in a thin stub nozzle sidearm like an MD could cover that, but to be able to field-fill off a primary would be a huge advantage in a game requiring mobility.

I guess you need to make a 2250 integration in order to get the best of both worlds. You have a 2000 PC in a 2500 frame, thus acquiring the 2000's power with the 2500's field-filling ability.

So I go 2250 as my one gun, with a backpack for water containers and some filled balloons. Unfilled balloons go in my pocket for special little field surprises :)
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by HBWW » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:20 am

You can get any blaster to fill water balloons with the right nozzle, but the stock 2500's is particularly difficult to fill with since the neck is too small (for the balloons I've used). I guess it also depends what balloons you're using. Field filling takes a long time though, and of course, there's always concerns of balloons bursting in many forms of storage. I guess you use larger balloons (maybe not even balloons branded as water bombs), since you can get the neck to fit over a 2500 nozzle to fill. I guess I need to find other balloons as the ones I typically buy are small and susceptible to detonating too easily. (Also need to knot them higher along the neck.)

I've filled balloons with a stock 1200 nozzle and even the FF's stream. They're less reliable for that (especially the FF) but my balloons won't work with the 2500.
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by DX » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:33 pm

I use(d) fairly large balloons purposely selected for their size and strength. You can expect about 1 out of every 16 to break in storage. In fact, if they are not tied as low as possible on the neck, they might not break on the target either, as I found out when I hit Nick almost point blank with one and it bounced off. The 2500 5x nozzle is the perfect size and pressure for filling those. The smaller, more standard solid color water balloons break like crazy, the quality is too crappy to use for wars. 3-6 out of 10 tear on a tap when filling, they suck.
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by HBWW » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:06 pm

Are those balloons branded as water bombs or party balloons? What size are they?

The balloons I use are quite cheap; $2.00 or so for 250; they're the water bombs made by Imperial Toy. Apparently, the Guinness record for largest water balloon fight, which was held by some event in the U.K., also used the same brand. They do break annoyingly often though, so I should look for better balloons when I buy my next batch. (Usually around 500 or so, about as many as given to a small team in a pure water balloon war that takes me 3-5 seasons to use up lol.)
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by DX » Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:25 pm

They are like these http://www.amazon.com/Camouflage-Water- ... B0017U2DPC

Slightly more expensive and only come in packs of 100, but the quality is excellent. They were in a party store.
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by HBWW » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:00 pm

I love that 2-star review where the guy calls them "bellones". They seem great for WBL's though; I'll have to check the party store again when I can.

Anyway, I find the stock CPS 2000 a bit too difficult to use for not all that much benefit. It requires about 4 pumps per tap shot which means you'd better damn well be fast enough to get in range so that your opponent has a low change of dodging it. You can't really suppress with it either as one tap shot uses so much water.

That said, I haven't used one too extensively. The stream velocity is not much of an improvement which makes the shot easier to dodge anyway, but I may try to use it again this summer, compare it to the 2500 on 10x and 5x, and see how that goes.
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by martianshark » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:06 pm

I'd use a CPS 1500 with an Outlaw as a backup. And maybe I'd strap a canister of water balloons to my belt. I would put a 2L bottle and the Outlaw in my backpack, and I'll also have some sunglasses for eye protection. I might use some sort of shield.
CA99 wrote:It's funny because you can get 5 water bottles and a pencil for much less than $90.

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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by HBWW » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:24 pm

I usually only use shields for the fun of it in soakfests. In 1HK they are either too big and inhibit mobility, shooting, and visibility, or they are too small and don't really protect you.
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by marauder » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:33 pm

I'm with DX, the most important thing to me in this situation is range and mobility.

I would bring my CPS 2000 a1 with custom made ghille camo cloth cover and leather strap. I'd have a camo covered Aquapack Devastator on my back. I find the Devastator extremely light, and it is excellent at filling up other guns. As a sidearm it has long range and a good shot time to make up for that of the 2000's, but I do not intend on having to use it as a weapon at all. I think the 2000 a1 and Devastator are probably the most deadly combo out there, and once I fix my Devastator I plan on testing it out.

I'd wear my multicam boony hat, multi cam jacket, multicam pants, and my running shoes. Across my chest I'd have a waterballoon belt like the one I had in VW2. Waterballoon belts are belts with multiple holes in them, you use yarn or string to tie waterballoons to you through the holes.

CA99 wrote:I find the stock CPS 2000 a bit too difficult to use for not all that much benefit. It requires about 4 pumps per tap shot which means you'd better damn well be fast enough to get in range so that your opponent has a low change of dodging it. You can't really suppress with it either as one tap shot uses so much water.

That said, I haven't used one too extensively. The stream velocity is not much of an improvement which makes the shot easier to dodge anyway, but I may try to use it again this summer, compare it to the 2500 on 10x and 5x, and see how that goes.
There is nothing wrong with that. Water warfare is not simple enough to say x gun is always better than y gun. So much of it depends on the user. If you are better with the 2500 than the 2000 then that's what you should go with. Likewise, if martianshark does his best work with the 1500 then that's what he should use.
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by HBWW » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:10 pm

On the other hand, I've been defeated easily by larger streams in one particular war with another team whose leader used to be active here at iSn. I made a ton of mistakes at that war, such as carrying a 2700, Flash Flood, and Max-D2k (I didn't want to leave the blasters sitting around), but can't help but think that the better streams contributed more than usual to my defeat. I guess its all up to how much I was willing to trade off, and there's an intricate balance between pumping requirements, pumping difficulty, pressure, nozzle orifice, range, capacity, weight, and velocity, all factors of which are important to hit-based wars, which every player seems to balance differently but those who are faster seem to prefer the 2000 or super-heavy-K'd guns.
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by marauder » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:15 pm

CA99 wrote:On the other hand, I've been defeated easily by larger streams in one particular war with another team whose leader used to be active here at iSn. I made a ton of mistakes at that war, such as carrying a 2700, Flash Flood, and Max-D2k (I didn't want to leave the blasters sitting around), but can't help but think that the better streams contributed more than usual to my defeat. I guess its all up to how much I was willing to trade off, and there's an intricate balance between pumping requirements, pumping difficulty, pressure, nozzle orifice, range, capacity, weight, and velocity, all factors of which are important to hit-based wars, which every player seems to balance differently but those who are faster seem to prefer the 2000 or super-heavy-K'd guns.
I ran a 10:20 2 mile last year :cps2000: so I definitely fit your description. I would rather use the 2700 in a soakfest because of the shot time, and because you can use it as a shield. :lol:
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by HBWW » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:37 pm

I use shields and dual wielding in soakfest, but by far the best weapon is dual hoses. Can't say the same for hit-based games because hoses are quite immobile, but in soakfests they basically make you invincible and the only way to counterbalance them is to allow both teams to have them at their base, and to give the teams incentive to get out of their own base.
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by DX » Mon Apr 18, 2011 3:11 am

Topics like this make me REALLY miss fighting water wars!

CA99, if I couldn't make a 2250 and had to choose between 2000 and 2500, for this fight I'd go 2000 because it's elimination. You only get 20-30something taps from a 2000, but it's a shorter battle overall. If it's a game with lives, where long, drawn-out shootouts are likely, the 2500 gets the nod. Also, with the large teams, a single gun does not make as much of an impact and I could get away with shooting less and conserving water. With small teams, you end up shooting more, imo, because each gun makes a huge difference.

Nibordude preferred the 1500. We've dueled 1500 on 2500 and they are pretty evenly-matched. Design, as opposed to stats, has me favoring the 2500. A 1500 is well-balanced when the reservoir and PC are full, but when one is empty and not the other, it's awkward. There's also a lot of weight on the trigger hand. On the flip side, a 2500 grip will chafe the top of your hand if you don't have something on it to soften the rubbing. Switching the 1500 nozzle is easier, too. You can easily lose track of the 2500 nozzles and accidentally switch to 20x when you meant 5x. Sticking tabs or other marks on the nozzles can help minimize that.

I've got speed on the other end of the spectrum. Never raced anything longer than 400m, pure sprinter here. I'm not quite sure why fast people like certain guns, it could be a coincidence. Much of my team were sprinters and sprinter-types - gun choices varied though.

Hoses can be easy to counter - they shoot what, 20-30ft? Unless you have special attachments for your hoses, a 2000 user can stand in the open and hit a hose user who can't reach. Sure they can unwind more hose, but they risk having the flow cut off if they go out too far and are pushed back at some point. You sprint in and grab a coil, hose = dead.
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Re: Your Ideal Combat Armament

Post by the oncoming storm » Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:55 am

My arms would be my CPS 1200 and my WW Hornet
Speed agilaty and relative firepower!
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