HydroBlitz

Discussions of all varieties of stock water guns and water blasters.
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Post by hydroblitz » Mon May 14, 2007 9:33 pm

I'm getting the HydroBlitz on Wednesday or Thursday! I'm so excited! That's exactly why my name is "HYDROBLITZ!!!"
Soak On!

VGreif
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Post by VGreif » Wed May 16, 2007 4:36 pm

This blaster caught my attention.

I thought the CPS glory days were over once Super Soaker started putting out things like EES and the first generation of SoakerTag. This indicates to me that Super Soaker is still interested in putting out a quality product.

What I don't like is the lack of style. What happened to the cool blasters of the olden days? Of course, as somewhat of an fossil I do seem to like the older designs that were around when I was younger. I don't suppose I'm alone in this feeling though.

I'd be interested in buying this to see how it does. I like the direction we're seeing here. Perhaps a more detailed review is in store later.

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Post by HBWW » Wed May 16, 2007 6:18 pm

^"a quality product?"... The HydroBlitz is still along Hasbro's gimmicks and still lacks the range of the former CPS's (as well as their 10-20x nozzles, etc), especially considering how big it was. The closest they've come to the battle practicality and power to size ratio of the CPS's would be the Flash Flood, though that gun will probably require repair sometime for most, as well as nozzle modding.

Chances are, the HB is going to break down due to the complexity of the internals. $40 for an underpowered gun doesn't help either.

Well, its still a step up in terms of size, but that's it, they're using that and their stream/riot blast combo to sell.




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Post by Silence » Wed May 16, 2007 7:57 pm

The HydroBlitz is a lot like the Monster XL - very large, somewhat underpowered. That said, in the future it'll probably net a lot of profits on eBay, at least if nobody makes any really good water guns instead.

ZOCCOZ also likes the older style of blasters - check out his sites, which I don't currently have links to. Unfortunately, he isn't too active these days.

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Post by hydroblitz » Wed May 16, 2007 8:13 pm

I got the HydroBlitz today!!! It's very BIG and amazing!!!

:cps2000: :soaked: :cps2500:




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Post by VGreif » Thu May 17, 2007 4:34 pm

C-A_99 wrote:^"a quality product?"... The HydroBlitz is still along Hasbro's gimmicks and still lacks the range of the former CPS's (as well as their 10-20x nozzles, etc), especially considering how big it was.

Super Soaker is creating improved products. Clearly, the HydroBlitz is a far cry from the CPS Super Soakers of the olden days. It however is a step towards the level of power of the older CPS water guns, despite whatever "gimmick" features exist. Hasbro seems to want to create a higher quality product.

One thing I don't appreciate here is the belief that Hasbro only creates low quality products. They create what they believe will sell. If that doesn't agree with what we want, well, that's too bad. From what I have seen and read, I personally feel the Flash Flood or HydroBlitz are good water guns that don't quite get the attention they may deserve. I must admit that I have not used either however.

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Post by HBWW » Thu May 17, 2007 4:50 pm

The HB is no more than a beefed up Flash Flood and you know it. :) As for quality, that stuff's probably going to break down due to their unecessarily complex design (a design specifically made for gimmicks and to make the gun a bit more appealing to the typical buyer) The Flash Flood itself, while much better than the crap around it, still can be considered low quality, especially considering how often the trigger breaks down. (and the fact that it usually costs as much as a CPS 2100 when they were being made)

So overall, Hasbro stepped back up a bit in 2005, and perhaps a bit more in 2007 (but only by size), and while the potential power/range of all their recent CPS's is fairly high (by modding, etc), they're obviously still not up to it quite yet.
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Post by DX » Thu May 17, 2007 5:13 pm

One thing I don't appreciate here is the belief that Hasbro only creates low quality products. They create what they believe will sell. If that doesn't agree with what we want, well, that's too bad. From what I have seen and read, I personally feel the Flash Flood or HydroBlitz are good water guns that don't quite get the attention they may deserve. I must admit that I have not used either however.


Just because something is designed to sell well does not mean that it is of high quality. Often the exact opposite is true. Hasbro does appear to be trying to improve, but profits first, performance a distant second. After all, their investors couldn't care less about how well their super soakers are constructed or how well they shoot, they want to see greenbacks - plain and simple.

The Flash Flood and Hydroblitz, IMO, have already received enough attention. They are simply the newer news in a long line of hyped up guns. People will be worshiping the Hydroblitz like they did the Flash Flood, CPS 4100, even the CPS 2000. The gun may be different, but the trend remains the same year in and year out.

Before anyone bites my head off, I know very well what is quality and what is not. 50ft range and 50x output hardly impress me. I've seen ranges over 60ft and output over 100x, the range coming in extremely light, compact, practical guns. The quality a modder can put into a gun is matched only by homemades, and stock quality comes nowhere close to either.

With that said, the only "bad gun" is a broken one. Every gun is useful for something in some fighting style or another, regardless of whether it is stock, modded, or homemade. Well, I'm not sure what you would do with an XP Backfire and the such, but a gun is always better than no gun. :goofy:
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Post by VGreif » Fri May 18, 2007 4:37 pm

Again, you people fail to understand exactly what I have been saying. I sense a vindictive attitude towards Hasbro. I am not saying that Hasbro's products are off the highest quality. I clearly stated that the HydroBlitz is a far cry from the older Super Soakers. What I am saying is that their products are improved and not as bad as some of you want to believe. I have read this forum for some time and I can see a negative attitude towards Hasbro that I don't feel is completely justified.

I see a much better attitude towards the Water Warriors series, despite the fact that their water guns are similar to Super Soaker's. Be consistent please. I sense that some feel "betrayed" by the lines of the previous years and for some reason attribute this to some greedy Hasbro executives. Hasbro and Buzz Bee Toys are both doing the same thing, yet for some reason Hasbro is the "bad guys" and Buzz Bee Toys are the "good guys".

With this said, I most definitely do not support greed. I am supporting the truth and the "Hasbro bashing" is unjustified from what I have seen. I can see that too much negativity is attributed to them. I believe they are making an honest effort to improve water guns, though I do not believe they are doing all they can. If any manufacturer wanted to make great water guns, they could. Sadly, nothing on today's market I can call "great", but I can call tit improved.

Some sort of "homemade" option interests me. Perhaps when I come home I'll take a better look at that. Could you PM me some suggested links? Thanks.

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Post by Silence » Fri May 18, 2007 4:48 pm

You have a surprisingly enlightening point of view...definitely revealed a bit more to me. :cool:

Yes, I'd agree that the community does feel betrayed by Hasbro. After receiving powerful water guns from Super Soaker before the complete takeover by Hasbro, I guess people lost what they were accustomed to. There's also a lot of reference to "gimmicks," or new features in recent water guns that make attempts to attract attention.

Super Soaker also overprices their water guns - at least compared to Water Warriors. Range isn't too good either, size and ergonomics aren't that great (the HydroBlitz is large, but clumsy large), and there's been a bit of anger because Hasbro holds patents for the CPS system that it doesn't use to the fullest extent.

Perhaps you haven't seen it though, but I think the most appealing factor in BBT - for the soaking community, at least - is that Big Bee, an influential member of that company, sometimes frequents the forums. Weapons like the Splat Blaster were concepts offered from the community, I think. And Big Bee has returned to see feedback.

It also seems like Buzz Bee just innovates quite a bit. When they couldn't use traditional CPS systems, they created a complex but functional Hydro Power system that pressed a rubber sheet against a flat plate. They developed the Pre Charger system that is used in the Argon, Xenon, and Krypton. They created their own version of a piston pumper water gun that had extended shot time. And the water guns are all solid.

Check out Super Soaker Central for information on homemade water guns. The site and the forums have more water gun DIY information than the rest of the web combined, I should like to think.

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Post by VGreif » Sun May 20, 2007 8:41 am

I have read several posts by Big Bee and they definitely are appreciated. Anyone who makes us feel as if we are being accommodated deserves accolades. Sadly, I believe his existence here without other manufacturers represented adds to the impersonal impression of Hasbro. Hasbro employees, if you are reading this, begin representing your company in these forums. Representing your company here could not possibly damage your brand or company.

To reiterate, my main problem with Hasbro bashing is that the water guns themselves are not vastly different from those of other companies, and therefore not worthy of bashing. I can understand that price is an issue, but some people have no problem shelling out big bucks for water guns in light of some recent post. In the end, the actual quality of the water guns themselves is what matters. Innovation is good, but is it necessary? The more recent innovations I have seen are not substantial improvements, though I must admit I have not used any of the newer water guns.

I am one who believes Super Soaker got a lot of things right in the past and they simply don't need to innovate. Of course, if they don't use what worked well before, that's a problem and a shame. I can understand that Buzz Bee Toys wants to avoid any sort of patent infringement. What's wrong with a larger air pressure water gun then? Having used a friend's SS300 before, I know larger air pressure water guns are as good if not better than CPS ones. Full featured powerful air pressure guns have always been an option.

We are straying from the original point of the thread however and that wasn't my original intention. Moderators, if you like this discussion, please split it from this thread. I enjoy a good enlightening debate every once and a while, especially about a new subject.

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Post by HBWW » Sun May 20, 2007 9:15 am

Simply put, in 2003, it just plunged, the CPS's were no longer part of Super Soaker, period, and Hasbro has virtually no connections at all with any of the decent quality guns Larami created. This is just simply part of why most of us don't like Hasbro; they took over the rest of Super Soaker and backtracked onto low quality guns, and the only "innovations" since then were the gimmicks. (guns that shoot ooze, that freeze their water, that fire helix shaped streams, etc.) In 2003, Super Soaker became something else, it wasn't just a few mere changes by the same company. Hasbro is clearly trying to take down and keep down guns like the CPS's from coming again, even if they aren't 'conscious' of it.

As to large air pressure guns, those are simply outdated, requiring too much pumping, and the old SS's had some durability issues. Why is it that most of those who create homemades prefer CPH's instead of APH's? APH's have more power potential and the LRT for CPH's is somewhat weak (compared to the CPS cannons) but CPH's are much more user friendly in terms of consistent pumping, not having to pre-pressurize, etc.

The majority of BBT guns focus on range and capacity, the majority of Hasbro guns focus on gimmicks. The Orca shoots farther than any of the Hasbro guns, and their designs are simply crap. Why are so many people doing nozzle drills on their Flash Flood's? Because Hasbro didn't think much in their designs in terms of performance. The Flash Flood only happens to be more powerful because Hasbro's hogging the CPS patents. (at least they knew air pressure wouldn't do as good of a job pushing out a riot blast that would make the gun sell) Of course, BBT has their downfalls too, such as the handling on some guns, the design flaws on the Orca, etc. but none of their 2007 guns are past $20 and all of them shoot farther. Yes, the pressure gauges suck, and they could easily make decent ones that aren't electronic, but they're completely optional, the bad switch position (that was formerly behind the trigger) has been moved, and they don't add to the price. (not noticeably at least, and considering the market recently, adding a harmless gimmick doesn't hurt)

Hasbro's strategies are working somewhat. (at least in 2005 and 2006) I see no Arctic Shocks this year but plenty of FF's, yet I bet most of those who bought an AS who've seen a FF have regretted their purchase, especially seeing how you can just put ice cubes in a FF. Anyone from Hasbro reading any forums like these is quite a stretch considering how much they care right now. Bottom line, the past Super Soakers have virtually no connection with the modern ones, other than the re-releases going on. (in which they're somehow afraid to re-release anything from the CPS line nor even an XP310, not any XP guns superior to many modern air pressure Soakers)

Anyways, saw the HydroBlitz again yesterday, and dad was walking by, simply because I was picking up a pair of Max-D 3000's. He was probably more interested in buying it than I was, until I told him the price lol. The fact that that thing is only as powerful as the FF is pretty ridiculous though. Of all the patents they're holding, the exact FF pressure chamber (small cylinderical in that case) is the only thing they're using.

Overall, the discussion here all ties into why the HydroBlitz is how it is, even if it's somewhat off-topic.




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Post by SSCBen » Sun May 20, 2007 10:16 am

This is an interesting discussion. I can't write too much due to a wrist injury, but I do have one thing to say. The thought that air pressure water guns require more pumps and are weaker are simply incorrect. I myself am a fan of the SS 300 as well and such a design shows the potential of air pressure. Pumping also isn't much of an issue. An 80 ml pump capacity is pretty high. That means it only takes 19 pumps to get the full 1.5 liters of water capacity. Not too shabby.

I don't know how many people have made CPS water guns aside from myself and a few others, but the main reason you want them is not due to pumps. You want a CPS design due to the constant range and output, which I'll admit isn't the most important factor in a water gun. Also, higher power is much easier to obtain through air pressure than through rubber CPS water guns due to flow restrictions and limited pressure.




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Post by Silence » Sun May 20, 2007 12:40 pm

CA-99, there really is no possible way to create a fill gauge for a Hydro Power system without it being electronic. Sure, you could have a clear PC cover, but that would be ugly and it might even be more expensive than electronics. Because of the shape of the Hydro Power system, you can't have a gauge to directly measure how full it is; you have to measure the slight drop in pressure. I'm sure it's impossible for somebody to note the slight drop in pressure, and then relate that to how full the PC is. While I think electronics is a bit pointless seeing as the gauge isn't very useful, it is the only way to have a gauge on a Hydro Power system.

I haven't built a CPH either, but I feel it's safe to reiterate what others have said. CPS water guns are generally more convenient for battles due to constant range and output. Still, well-designed air pressure water guns can be just as good for battles, and air pressure is superior if you're looking for power.

I find it difficult to analyze the situation beyond the technicalities. We really don't know what the situation is with the companies, although it's safe to say that more people can connect with BBT. Yes, perhaps it is a personal judgment that Big Bee is on the forums but no Hasbro people are, but it still explains why many of us prefer BBT. Hasbro needs to join the forums if they want to try convincing Soakerdom, which composes perhaps 0.0001% of their customers.

In case you didn't notice, that was a jab at another issue. These companies don't need to worry about performance because people outside of the online community don't know or care about a certain water gun's performance. Having gimmicks and features up front is more obvious than having range, and those gimmicks can be impressive. You can't just look at a water gun in a box and say, "Wow, that gets 50 feet of range!" That also assumes you know that 50 feet is a lot.

So while we may not care for Hasbro, we aren't too important to them either, and they don't need us to be important. They get their money from other people, we get our stock water guns from other companies. Life moves on. :soaked:

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Post by HBWW » Sun May 20, 2007 1:38 pm

Have you seen the internals of a Pirahna? They use a conventional pressure gauge with a light behind it, and instead of having all those number markings, there are areas of the gauge that are different colors, so the light shines through and it cycles through red, yellow, and green. (those are the only colors, there are virtually no gradients) For the 2007 guns, apparently they must've wired the same type of conventional pressure gauge so that it controls the 3 lights, but overall, I'm pretty sure they both use the same type of pressure gauge that's either wired up to lights, or uses a translucent plane to change the light color. Now looking at that, it would definately be cheaper to get a pressure gauge that sticks out. Of course, transparent PC cases does the job too.

As for Hasbro, I was just stating their situation and the facts, and that their advertising works on the masses. Whether water warfare fans matter to them or not, it doesn't matter, no one who knows about them likes what they're doing (particularly with the patents), plain and simple.
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Post by bill » Sun May 20, 2007 2:45 pm

C-A_99 you’re only a kid I guess. But can you at least try not to be a communist as well? Frankly I think there is too much of a good thing. Back in the day I would go up against my brother with my cps 3200 vs his cps 2500 and my sister’s cps 1500. (I returned my cps 3000 after 2.5 month it had a 3 month warranty because it was breaking and got a cps 3200 the next season). I would end up soaked down to my underwear even my shoes would be wet. It really was not that fun.

Back then all I cared about was soaking power but looking back on it. I really think I had more fun playing with my SS100 vs my brothers xp 105 and before that with my ss20 vs his unbranded crappy whatever.




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Post by HBWW » Sun May 20, 2007 3:42 pm

"Communist?"... I was merely describing their marketting strategies and stating information and opinions on their guns... And if one doesn't like games that completely soak but still have heavier weapons, they could simply play 1HK/S games (or use smaller weapons as you suggested), long ranged weaponry simply provides more possiblities and it's a preferance for both types to be easily available. Of course, the homemades area somewhat opens those possibilities, but creating homemades that handle well in battle isn't always easy.

Well, sorry to everyone about the previous postings, I didn't explain everything very well and it came out weird.




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Post by JLspacemarine » Fri May 25, 2007 8:37 pm

Well, yesterday was a bad day for the hydroblitz's reputation, as it's ball valve on the burst mode failed a few times to close completely, spraying out some water until the blaster has no more pressure or until I switch on the stream mode. It might just have been a bad model.

Having only 5 days left to get a refund, I decided to return it today. It seems like the HB does not sell very well here, there are many of em still on the shelves since I got mine, like if I was the only one who bought one. (As opposed to BBT guns, not a single Orca or Tigershark were avalaible at wal-mart today)

Then I bought a 100oz aquapack for my FF and I'll keep the extra cash for something better later this summer. :cps3000:

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Post by Dacca » Sat May 26, 2007 9:34 am

to help get things back on topic:

i keep debateing with myself whether or not to actually get a hydroblitz. on one hand its big, has a huge soakage potential and just looks cool. on the other hand, its $40 and would pobobly be not worth the money. thats when i saw an ad on tv for this years super soaker line. (the video is not on the hasbro site as of yet) but if youve seen it, it looks similar to the BBT ad for the tarantula. in the end of the tv spot, it shows a guy using the hydro blitz. from the looks of it, it seems very underpowered with the pulse and just dosn't look like its worth the money.
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Post by HBWW » Sat May 26, 2007 10:29 am

I personally would wait until clearance. I'm suspecting it won't be that popular simply because of the price, but you can score some good deals on clearance. I saw oozinators last year going for $6.
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