Spyra One

Discussions of all varieties of stock water guns and water blasters.
Drenchenator
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Re: Spyra One

Post by Drenchenator » Tue Apr 03, 2018 11:09 am

This is an interesting design. I concur with Ben that the balance and handling could be an issue. If the gun is meant to be held with 2 hands I'd suggest more of a visual cue as to where to grip it with your second hand. Given that the gun is designed exclusively for short bursts (tap shots), everything seems roughly appropriate and fully-automated. This forum obviously prefers much better performance characteristics --- 10 meters of range usually is considered quite limited here --- but I think this design is unique and fills a different niche. It appears to concentrate more on stealth, portability, and close-quarters combat, and it should excel in those aspects, especially over the squirt guns that Hasbro is calling Super Soakers these days. I'm glad that somebody is putting much more thought into design than Hasbro has. Good work!
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Rike
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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:20 pm

Thanks Drenchenator! I can't add much more to what you explain for yourself already ;)

Seen on a continuum, the Spyra One really is designed to set a new standard in the way of intelligently incorporating technology in the long-neglected segment of water guns (compared to Nerf, for example). Instead of raw soaking power, which has to be limited (if not for safety reasons), our focus purposely lies on style, comfortable handling, powerful trigger-response (including strong recoil), rather than the usual performance stats.

Although, IF you are hit with a water bullet, even if it's not much water, you can really feel the impact. I can't wait to show you, hopefully very soon!!

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Re: Spyra One

Post by marauder » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:52 am

I'm just seeing this now. Can't believe I missed out on this.

I think this is a great idea. Will be adding some more thoughts later, but had to comment now out of pure excitement.
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Rike
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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:13 am

Haha marauder... In hard times, I will come back to your comment for emotional support. Seriously, thanks!

In the meantime, I know you care less about design than about function, but I have another question for you all. :)

Following another round of feedback from our Facebook community, we have looked once more at the drawing board and got out an older design draft for the Spyra One. Note that these two are both two-handed water guns, I know it's hard to make out the dimensions, hope you can guess from the handles/triggers.

And also note that these are DRAFTS, or rather, concept ideas! As is, in fact, the design I showed you earlier, just rendered prettier...

What do you think? Which one do you like better, and why, if you can say?
180404_both.png
180404_both.png (94.37 KiB) Viewed 1817 times

marauder
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Re: Spyra One

Post by marauder » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:55 pm

I can be rather superficial at times actually. Some of us care more about looks/colors/design than others. Some of us are still kids at heart (ok, most of us).

Ideally I would prefer something in between, but closer in design to the second model. The first design would have all the weight in front of the handle, similar to the Water Warriors Vindicator. The Vindicator is a great blaster, but I dislike that you can't fire it one handed. Now, the Spyra One might be too heavy to fire one handed when it is fully loaded, but once the reservoir gets a little lower I assume that wouldn't be the case. Having the weight more center balanced would just make it easier to handle in general. The second model might have a little too much weight towards the back of the blaster, but that is better (IMHO) than at the front.

That being said, I might be completely wrong, since the first model looks like it has most of the weight on the bottom. We have never seen a blaster where all the weight is at the front, but also on the bottom. That may actually handle better than blasters like the Vindicator where the weight is to the front, but higher up.

Very exciting.
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jja
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Re: Spyra One

Post by jja » Fri Apr 06, 2018 7:37 am

The second design looks far better to me:

the balance on you main hand will far better
it has the option to shoulder it, as a rifle making aiming easier
by having some of the mass to the back the entire thing is shorter (like a bullpup rifle) making it easier to wield in close quarters
also the additional space above the trigger vs design 1 should make fitting the internal mechanisms easier for you

Drenchenator
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Re: Spyra One

Post by Drenchenator » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:50 am

I also have to agree that the second concept design would likely have better handling. Of course, this is not to say that the first concept design (current design) is a bad design. Both are good designs, in my opinion. The main advantage for the first concept design is that it allows a lot more flexibility in how you position the parts inside the gun. The second provides less freedom in that regard, because it is trying to balance the weight inside more equally and has (relatively) less height to work with. The choice between the two is just a classic design tradeoff, I suppose.

My guess is that the trigger mechanism is electrical, so I don't think there's any disadvantage in the first design in regards to how the internal mechanisms are placed. This is obviously a bigger issue for this forum's kind of designs. Old-school Larami Super Soaker designs used wire rods to mechanically open the firing valve with each trigger pull, and that design choice places some requirements on where the trigger and grip are located, but this design doesn't need all that because it just shoots short bursts. Electrical would be a more obvious choice, though I admit I'm not privy to what the design actually uses.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any reason why either would be more difficult to manufacture than the other; both could still easily be built with an injection-molded clamshell for the exterior. The second might need more screws to secure it (for all the complexity around the grip) but that's just a guess.

Personally, if I had to choose just one I would choose the second.
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Re: Spyra One

Post by scottthewaterwarrior » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:34 am

See, I am one of those weirdos who actually liked the design of the Vindicator. Having the handle in the back may make a water blaster virtually impossible to shoot on handed, but I find it far more stable. With traditional bottom mounted grips, I find all but the smallest guns too top heavy to one hand with any accuracy anyway. A few guns, like the XP 150, I find I cannot one hand at all until it is about 3/4 empty because of how high the tank is mounted. In fact, at full capacity, I find the XP 150 unwieldy even with two hands! For light-medium sized blasters, having the handle at the back also means you can quick draw it from a backpack.
Your older design looks like it might actually solve a lot of the balance issues though, given how low the tank is mounted. The main issue is whether the part of the tank behind the grip will rest nicely against your arm, like the Water Warriors Colossus, or just make it awkward to hold, like the Water Warriors Vanquisher.

As for range, we generally measure a blaster's max range by firing at a 45 degree angle. While a blaster's effective range is often much less (due to stream breakup and opponents ability to dodge), max range is still a useful deterrent for holding an enemy back, or keeping them distracted while a teammate sneaks in closer. At max range, it is still possible to hit people, especially if they don't see it coming.

Not sure if this gun would really be for me, having to pump a blaster yourself is kind of part of the game IMO. Though it is clear you guys are going for a slightly different battle style/market, and it will still be interesting to see if the Spyra One is able to be competitive in the style of battles we do. Outside the community, I sometimes loan out blasters, and do very low key battles at events like my neighborhood's July 4th party. Young kids often have trouble using more traditional water blasters, ether they can't pump them effectively, or they forget to do it often enough. The Spyra One sounds like it will be a much better alternative to those motor squirters Super Soaker has put out.
It looks like you guys are focusing a lot on ease of use, and if you can get even XP 150 levels of power out of this thing, I think you'll get even us "hard core" guys will take notice.
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SEAL
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Re: Spyra One

Post by SEAL » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:32 pm

Yeah, I'd probably prefer the one on the right. Reminds me of the Python 2, which is one of the most ergonomic guns out there. The left design would likely be a mostly two-handed blaster, although it doesn't look like it'd be very large based on the size of the trigger grip (assuming the picture is to scale). It doesn't bother me too much, since firing one-handed isn't preferable anyway due to lower accuracy. I typically only do it in certain situations like if I'm shooting at someone behind me while running away or something. The biggest reason I dislike the Vindicator despite being one of the best WW guns is actually due to the tight trigger grip more than the balance. The grip is uncomfortable and there's barely any space between the trigger and the end of the reservoir. I can get one finger between them, but not two. (Insert obligatory middle-school joke here.)

So the big takeaway here is to make sure to leave plenty of space around the trigger grip area for those of us with larger hands. Mine aren't huge, but many water guns are still very uncomfortable for me. Balance is quite important too, but I find most blasters aren't heavy enough for that to matter. When we're talking CPS 2700-size, then yes, it needs to be well-balanced, but the Spyra One doesn't look very large.

Maybe try building prototypes of both designs, fight with them, and see which one is preferred.
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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Mon Apr 16, 2018 8:03 am

Again, thanks for the detailed comments on water gun design here!

There seems to be some confusion from the 3D renderings on how big the models actually are. So I just had my colleague Marius stand in front of our test channel with the 3D-printed model of the second design, just fresh off the printer this morning. Hope that helps to clarify the dimensions.
Spyra3DSize.png
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In the meantime, in case you don't yet follow us on Facebook (please do!!! http://www.facebook.com/spyraone), we have also asked our fans there and got a surprisingly clear vote (22 compared to 78 percent) for Design B. After a bit more consideration, we decided to go for this one.

What do you think, hot or not?
Marius won't take it personally haha :D

Drenchenator
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Re: Spyra One

Post by Drenchenator » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:26 am

Thanks for sharing the photo! The look of this new mockup definitely is sleeker and should be better balanced than the older design. I appreciate that you took a photo of somebody holding it, because it's easy to lose perspective from CAD renderings (I know it's happened to me before). I actually like the "smoothed out" butt of the gun more in the current mockup than the original CAD drawing.

The only change I could recommend would be to ensure that the butt rests securely against the upper arm of the user, possibly by making the butt bend slightly inwards at the center. This is nitpicking, actually. It appears that butt is flat against the user's upper arm, but it's difficult to make out in the photo given. Other than that it honestly looks perfect for a medium-sized water gun design, according to my standards at least.
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Rike
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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Sat Jul 14, 2018 2:22 am

Guys, it's been a long time since you've heard from us, although I hope that at least some of you follow us on our Facebook or are signed up for the email notification? ;)

A lot of things have moved forward these past weeks and Kickstarter is around the corner. Here's a sneak peek of the Kickstarter video footage we shot last weekend that I wanted to show you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLvDJOvwa7k

And the final design:

Image

SSCBen
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Re: Spyra One

Post by SSCBen » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:56 am

Hi Rike, I signed up for the email notification. The product looks great in the video. Looking forward to the Kickstarter!

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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:58 am

Wohoo! Thanks Ben :) :)

That's high praise coming from you. We're excited to have you with us for Kickstarter!

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Re: Spyra One

Post by Tim » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:34 am

Ben - I have to agree with you about the product looking great. Each design revision of that shell has been a significant improvement in my opinion.

Rike - Will Spyra One be available in blue, too, from the start? Or do we have to wait for "Spyra Two"?

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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:56 am

Hi Tim, great that you like the design too! :)

And yes, Spyra One will be available in two colors that you are free to choose individually and across the Team Packs:
180706_Spyra One_Team Colors.jpg
180706_Spyra One_Team Colors.jpg (46.47 KiB) Viewed 1673 times

marauder
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Re: Spyra One

Post by marauder » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:14 am

Those are really sharp looking. I am going to go with the blue one. So cool.
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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:06 pm

Glad you like them too! The blue one is a bit under-represented so far in our press materials but it has also grown on me. :)

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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Tue Jul 17, 2018 8:57 am

Speaking of colors: here's something cool that Sebastian created today. Somehow hypnotizing... I can't stop looking at it :D
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DX
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Re: Spyra One

Post by DX » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:49 am

Yeah, this is definitely looking cool as it comes closer to production reality! I signed up my email and gave you a FB like. I do prefer the blue, but they are both pretty good-looking colors. I'll need to buy a pair in order to do a proper review, probably one of each color.

How well does the auto-refill feature work? Is that the only way to refill the blaster?
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