Spyra One

Discussions of all varieties of stock water guns and water blasters.
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Spyra One

Post by jSpazz » Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:57 am

https://www.spyraone.com/

Someone posted a picture of this on r/nerf a few days ago (and didn't explain what it was). Turns out its a Kickstarter for a water blaster from Germany designed to only do tap shots.

The shell is very nice, but I haven't had much time to go through their videos. Obviously this thing may never reach the market, especially considering how viable the water blaster market is currently.

But hopefully it inspires some discussion, especially the place for this kind of class of blaster in the type of wars you guys like to put together. Personally, I have always wanted to build a blaster nice this, a "gacha" assassin type blaster that would be fun when just goofing around but with more of a punch.

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Re: Spyra One

Post by SSCBen » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:44 pm

Nice find. Do you have the r/Nerf link? I couldn't find the blaster there.

I'll send them an email with some technical ideas...

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Re: Spyra One

Post by jSpazz » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:39 pm

I couldn't find it either, maybe I hid it. Doesn't really matter, they didn't talk about blaster, just the shell.

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Re: Spyra One

Post by SEAL » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:17 am

Huh, very interesting. Reminds me of some of the fictional blasters I made up for my future water warfare stories (such as the professional sport one in the fiction section), which were designed to only do tap shots in order to save water. The trigger would have to be lightning quick.

The gun looks cool, although it looks like it'd be front-heavy like an Equalizer or Vindicator. Maybe it won't matter so much 'cause it doesn't look very large. Ugh, why does it have to be a sidearm though? There are more than enough of those on the market. 10 meters is like 33 feet. Maybe there will be a larger Spyra Two. *hint hint*

But hey, it's refreshing to see, and hopefully they'll be successful.
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Re: Spyra One

Post by DX » Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:39 pm

"Precise shots up to 10 meters. Because soaking is so 1990."

Ironically, soaking was so 1990. Most contemporary Hasbro products can't even get my most fragile plants in the garden wet.

The shell looks pretty cool, but the intended performance level is meh. Max-D pistols shoot farther than that. It is nice to see people trying, though, and perhaps they face better odds of getting to market in Europe than here.
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Re: Spyra One

Post by SSCBen » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:51 pm

To be fair to Spyra, they said the shots would be precise to 10 m, not that the total range would be that. I assume this means negligible breakup before 10 m, which would be impressive. That would put the breakup length at around 1500 nozzle diameters for a 0.25 inch nozzle. This is around where I would expect the upper limit to be, so perhaps they have another idea.

Short taps are interesting, and the archerfish phenomena discussed here previously could possibly be used to increase range. But I expect the wind resistance to be reduced, perhaps greatly so. A longer pulse would probably be better, and judging by the video, that's what they have right now.

Oh, and Rike from Spyra joined the board. Hi! And good luck. We are all rooting for you all.

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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:38 am

Hi, and thanks for adding me to the board! I wanted to join you guys for a while now but that reddit thread and your discussion here gave finally me the push to do so!

I love that you are going into possible ranges and nozzle specs already, which is exactly what we are working on right now. Ben, you got the idea perfectly right: in the interest of making an actual sports match possible, our goal is that the "water bullet" is precise enough to be able to tell clearly whether someone is hit or not over a distance of 10 meters. Naturally, if you use more pressure or more water, the water stays more coherent over a longer distance - but then we're basically back to soaking. Instead, we really want to see whether we can create a water blaster that enables a water war that is a hybrid of laser tag and Nerf war, without being painful (or highly regulated) like paintball.

Ben, since you are *the* authority on water shooting technology (I stalked you a while ago... hehe), I wanted to talk to you actually to see whether you'd have some technical hints on what would work to reach our goals. Your experience would be super valuable to us. I am sure many things have been tried and researched before that we don't even know about... and maybe we have found some things that you haven't considered yet?

By the way, that outer shell... we currently put it on our website to have something to represent our product, but actually it's not the final design. The actual design is something my colleague Sebastian is working on still, top secret (not even I have seen the new designs!). He promises it's going to have a less gun-ish trigger than what you've seen here, and will resemble a futuristic blaster even more. Let's see, it should be ready for a sneak preview in a couple of weeks!

So excited to discuss further with you here!

Rike from Team Spyra

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Re: Spyra One

Post by SSCBen » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:16 am

I sent you an email. Let's keep the technical discussion private in case you all want to get patents. (The ideas I have are not patentable as-is, but if you all can think of implementations then that would be patentable.) It also is quite likely you all know some things I do not as I switched to mainly theory over the past few years. In particular I would probably not be of much help in terms of manufacturing.

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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:31 am

Hi Ben, sounds like a reasonable suggestion, I replied to your email :) Thanks a lot for the offer!

I will use the next couple days to check out the discussions you had in the forum here. We spent the past summer around Munich letting people test the prototype of our Spyra One water gun, and they loved it. But to be honest, if we can build something that you guys love, that will be true glory... ;))

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Re: Spyra One

Post by SEAL » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:41 pm

Welcome to the community! I really like what you all are doing. Innovation is basically dead in the water blaster market. We all want to see water guns move beyond kids' toys and become serious sporting items.

Interestingly enough, 'soaking' isn't really the goal in serious water wars anyway. The goal is simply to hit your opponent without being hit yourself. However many of our weapons will drench a person quite fast, simply because high output helps with getting hits. Thicker streams are harder to dodge, and will fly farther as well. Range is the most popular stat in the community, and high range (50 feet or 15 meters is what we consider high) just isn't very feasible with small-diameter streams.

With that said, I wish you all good luck with your product. Feel free to send us a prototype (if it's not too expensive) if you would like some feedback from hardcore users. Guns go through a good amount of abuse in our wars, so it would be a good durability test as well.
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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Fri Jan 05, 2018 9:57 am

Thanks, Seal! And happy new year to you all!

You touch on an interesting point with the range. With 'conventional' water guns, I would also go for high range, meaning high pressure and high water volume. It just makes the most sense given the options in the current water gun market.

With the Spyra One, we are hoping to establish a different game. Or rather, adapt game styles from other shooting games to water wars, as I mentioned above.

I recently uploaded a review of an event we hosted by the end of the summer for which we designed an arena to test the gameplay in: http://www.spyraone.com/review-spyra-world-cup-2017/ What do you think? Is that even remotely related to anything you are used to doing? ;)

On that point, I don't think it would even make sense to combine 'regular' water guns and the Spyra One in a single water war. That's like... trying to play badminton where one person uses a tennis racket ;)

If we can make it at all, my colleague and I are planning a road trip through the States before our Kickstarter campaign in summer of this year. The timing is tight but I agree, if Spyra One survives your water wars, it will probably survive all of them!

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Re: Spyra One

Post by SEAL » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:05 pm

Yeah, that would certainly play differently than a standard water war. Reminds me of those Xploderz or whatever they were called, that shot essentially water-filled paintballs. Still technically a water gun, but operating very differently, and not very compatible with conventional blasters.

I would try out a tap-shot-only game. Key attributes I'd look for in a blaster of this type would be trigger responsiveness and stream speed. Need to be able to react quickly in close-quarters environments, assuming that's what you're going for based on your World Cup. I think I'd agree that close quarters would be better for guns of this type. We have done some similar battles to yours, but typically in bigger areas. With six people, anything smaller than a football field feels very cramped.

Let us know if you all make it to the US and we can probably throw together some kind of event. Most of us are on the east coast, and that's where all the big wars take place.
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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:13 am

Awesome! I can't wait to come overseas and see the professionals at work in a real water war :D

I'd say that trigger responsiveness and stream/bullet speed is one of the big strengths of the Spyra One so far. Even with the prototypes of the Spyra One, you get such a strong short shot that you feel the recoil, although it's just a small amount of water. (And your unfortunate opponent feels the hit the same way, without being hurt though). And this happens without any effort on your side: No matter how long you pull the trigger, it's only one shot, so the mechanics of tapping don't distract from the game at all. This is what really surprised me the most the first time I played in the Spyra Arena. It's hard to describe but I loved it! I'll post some more pictures in the days to come, maybe that'll help to illustrate better.

Talking about close quarters, I personally do think there's a real chance that people will play indoors as well. As long as there's no water-sensitive electronics equipment around, it should be perfectly safe. And people are playing with Nerf darts indoors too, so why not?

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Re: Spyra One

Post by the oncoming storm » Sat Jan 13, 2018 7:02 pm

I am looking forward to trying the Sprya should it become a reality, stream velocity seems to be around stock CPS or k Modded levels based on the videos. As for ranges, I think it should be able to clear 12m easly if angled, possibly more. Which would make it a decent primary for community wars provided you can field from a creek or other natural water supply.

Personally I would like to see more shots per tank 25 shots is ok (2000 level) if your careful but I would like to see 40 or more. weight isn't the primary concern in community wars as long as it's reasonable. For example the 150 which is a "light" primary is around 7lbs the 1200 which is "Medium" weights 9.5lbs and the "Heavy" primary's (2000, 2500, 1500, 1700) are all around 12 lbs and we never have problems with being weighted down to much. I'm a not very strong person and even I have no problem keeping up with my team while carrying a fully loaded backpack modded PPB (around 25-30lbs)
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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:24 am

Thanks Storm! I'm glad to hear that you like the idea of a Spyra One! :)

As marketing lady, I should probably be more promotional about the maximum range by exaggerating the highest possible range. Though I think in this community, it's preferable to talk about scientific facts. Can't fool you guys anyway ;)

So when we speak of 10 meters range then of course we mean a precise 10-meter shot measured under standardized scientific conditions. I think iSoaker talked about standardizing measurements some time ago? Pushing the stats, in any case, wouldn't be a challenge. Even a couple months ago we made 12-13 long shots with an earlier prototype easily by angling the shot and shooting indoors where there is no wind interference. (On the other hand, these conditions could be realistic if you plan indoors scenarios.)

Storm, sound like you saw our post on weight and capacity (www.spyraone.com/weighty-questions) on our blog? Your comments resonate with what we found when we did our outdoor tests and events a couple of weeks later.

It turned out that we can easily include 40+ shots per tank, it hardly makes a difference in terms of weight or size because each shot is so small. (I should update that post!) What we hadn't anticipated and will consider is the feeling of each shot - if you make it too small, you can't feel the recoil of the shot anymore. Technically, there's no difference, but it's just a lot less fun without the haptic feedback. :D

Eventually I think we will have to determine the sweet spot between number of shots and the power and range of each shot, rather than worry about weight at all (we estimate a max of 7-8 lbs for a fully loaded Spyra One). Yay!

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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Fri Mar 30, 2018 2:57 pm

Guys! We just released our first very own design!

Image

According to Sebastian, that is what a 30% final design looks like. Plenty of room for your suggestions until the Kickstarter begins.

Now we're extremely curious to hear what you think... Hit us hard! haha :)

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Re: Spyra One

Post by the oncoming storm » Fri Mar 30, 2018 8:05 pm

Where's the pump? in all seriousness I have been wondering if it can be field filled without a pressurized water source and what system it uses to store pressurized water for blasting.
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Re: Spyra One

Post by pat720 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:12 pm

I know this sounds like a stupid question but how is the "Digital Magazine Display" powered? Does it use disposable batteries like the kind you can buy at a grocery store? Or does it use a custom rechargeable battery? Also on the top section of the blaster there is an outline of a possibly removable piece of plastic, I am assuming this is where the magazine (and maybe the batteries) are stored and accessed. Finally I may have missed something on the website but I have not seen the prototype dimensions anywhere. Could you somehow release these dimensions? Knowing the size of the blaster even if it is an approximate size helps out a lot. I apologize for all the questions with likely obvious answers but I am a little curious (and very excited) about this blaster.

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Re: Spyra One

Post by SSCBen » Sun Apr 01, 2018 8:14 pm

Glad to hear from you all!

From a purely aesthetic perspective, this is good, though I don't buy based on looks so perhaps you should ask more people who do.

I usually dislike water guns which put the handle at the back. The balance with one hand generally is poor. My heuristic is that the center of gravity of the gun should be located in the handle. Then again, you all might have a lower water capacity to go with the pulsed nature of the gun, which could make this acceptable. Ultimately this depends on the dimensions of the water gun and how the weight is distributed.

I'll also reiterate that I'm interested in how this is filled and charged. I don't see a water cap or pump.

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Re: Spyra One

Post by Rike » Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:32 am

It's always a please to deal with you guys and see your curiosity about the magic inside!

About the refilling mystery, I'm able to reveal it now: In short, there's an integrated pump that recharges the tank. This is a premium comfort feature that we are really excited about because it will take away one of the major pains in the game. I don't have to tell you but we all have had experiences with angry moms who hated us running inside and make a mess while refilling... Now just drop the mouth of the Spyra One into some water source (bucket, pool, whatever), let it pump in the water, and get going again.

Also, a great tactical aspect of the game. Imagine the enemy sneaking up around the corner while you pump in the water, counting fill status ticking up on the display...!

The display, because Pat asked, will be powered by the same battery that also powers the pump and trigger. We're still discussing with our supplier what is the easiest solution for this, and of course make it safe in the watery context of a water war.

Last, the dimensions and handling... It will hopefully become more obvious soon, but it is definitely a "gun" held in two hands, not a "pistol" (despite the irritating word we have to use in German, "Wasser-Pistole"). To be honest, we didn't get around to implementing a front grip in the new design (oops) but that's definitely coming in the next iteration.

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