WaterWar.net

Posted: **Sat Apr 07, 2007 11:47 pm**

I remember back in the old days when filling a water gun meant unscrewing the bottle and putting it under the sink. I felt that this was the best way of filling a water gun, as it allowed it to be filled in tight spaces. Alternatively I could just dunk it into a prefilled bucket of water and have it filled in seconds outside. This meant I could have a refill station anywhere, convient when going to out door BBQs. My point is, why do all the new guns have no removable reservior? People always talk about innovation in this forum, but having a fixed reservior is simply taking a large step back. I do understand the problems with removable bottles such as: lost bottles, problems with leakage, etc. But I believe that its pros simply cannot be ignored. Imagine an Orca with a removable bottle. Not too much difference in design, but the benefits would be tremendious. Perhaps even an ability to buy an even bigger longer reservoir for us big guys, huh Buzz Bee?

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:24 am**

1. Try filling the orca in a sink as opposed to the tigershark. You will see what I mean.

2. On larger soakers, the weight of holding the blaster upright along with screwing the resevoir from underneath can get heavy. I had problems with my XP35s (R.I.P

)!!!!

3. My solution: Make a detatchable resevoir, one end cap and the other end like the gas tank in a car. The soaker end can be latches and the gas-pump-tube thing. All you have to do is slide the resevoir into the slot provided and it will connect with a sturdy, satisfying "click" without the need for O ring nonsense. It seems fairly obvious to me, but METAL PARTS ON A SOAKER OMG :O

Edited By bb1 on 1176009882

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2007 6:22 am**

Having a fixed reservoir solves many more problems than it creates. I can understand the nostalgia, but the only other advantage I see to having the bottles is ease of filling. They can be easier to fill, but definitely are not easier to fill in all circumstances. However, when you consider the other issues, the fixed reservoir seems like a much better and safer option.

- Bottles had a problem shooting off. A fixed reservoir solves this safety issue.

- Bottles could get lost easily. Losing a bottle renders the water gun unoperable.

- When used in separate PC water guns, the older bottles make sucking noises because they lack vent holes. Water removed is not replaced by air, so there is some negative pressure.

- Bottles more often than not held less water than fixed reservoirs.

- Bottles often leaked. Fixed reservoirs are more reliable.

- Fixed reservoirs can be easier to fill in some circumstances. Dropping a hose in a reservoir is not possible with bottle water guns.

There are probably more reasons than the ones I have listed. I believe Larami discontinued the bottle design for a reason. They don't intentionally make bad water guns. They're trying to make the best they can on their budget, and the bottle guns are too much of a hassle it seems.

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2007 7:30 am**

Basically, Ben sums up the majority of reasons why removable bottles have been set-aside for fixed reservoirs. I should note that there still are some soakers on the market that use removable bottle reservoirs (i.e. the WW Chameleon). However, for large soakers, I'd hate to have to manipulate a 2-3L bottle and attempt to secure it in place onto a blaster. On top of that, 2-3L being held in place mostly by the neck of the bottle would result in a lot of stress and likely a lot of breaking bottles.

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2007 8:57 am**

Those bottled reservoirs were repulsive. The threads were typically long and annoying to remove, and you can't fill a bottle that long very well in a sink anyway. The threaded caps were still somewhat annoying on later XP's and CPS's (definately could've done something about this), but they made quick-fill caps later, and some have SC capability anyway. Either way, the threaded reservoirs are often a pain in the ass to remove, and putting them back on isn't very pleasant either considering that they're filled up with water. Also, their capacity is typically dinky (about the size of a good CPS PC), unless you don't mind doubling up the problems and using 2 or more threaded reservoirs. In short, they have no pros.

Edited By C-A_99 on 1176040807

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2007 9:04 am**

Eva1ence did mention some things that can be considered pros for removable bottles (i.e. dunk-filling in a bucket of water and easier filling in some sink formats).

IMO, those are advantages, but not enough versus the problems encountered when using screw-on bottle-type reservoirs. However, detachable backpack reservoirs or something similar or even a flexible intake hose for refilling a reservoir might be something to consider. Then again, perhaps it would be better to look for simple ways to modify a refilling station than it is for looking for ways to make a soaker accommodate specific-types of refilling stations.

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2007 10:40 am**

How bout my idea?

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2007 11:52 am**

The old style guns were great looking and I actually like using them. Nothing wrong with the bottles to me. If you find screwing on the bottle a problem, well, I don't really see why. You have to put the cap back on fixed resivoir guns too, unless it's a quick fill cap, and quick fill caps are garbage, and screw on the wrong way (counter clockwise). It all comes down to how you use your soaker. I quite personally like having multiple resivoirs with me in my backpack already full, so I don't have to reload at all, just screw one off, screw on another and keep going.

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:49 pm**

Hmm...couldn't they have had a small check valve for the air even on a water bottle gun - just have it in the tubing - to allow air in? Why can't they do that even for fixed reservoirs? Strange.

Crashdummy: How do you make sure the bottles don't spill the water? Do they have caps? Sounds neat.

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2007 12:56 pm**

Hmm...couldn't they have had a small check valve for the air even on a water bottle gun - just have it in the tubing - to allow air in? Why can't they do that even for fixed reservoirs? Strange.

They could have, but I do not think Larami ever did.

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2007 1:03 pm**

I personally don't have ergonomics concerns with bottles [since sinks and hoses and the such don't apply to me]. My only concern is battle-related. What happens if you get ambushed while in the process of screwing the bottle on/off? Not a situation that many have to worry about, but I have to every time I go to refill. There have been times where I had to defend myself from enemy rushes during filling. If you don't have a gun with a fixed reservoir and separate pc, you are totally vulnerable. Then again, the majority of people don't have nearly the same fighting style.

I'd personally solve this with a hybrid reservoir that is fixed with a detachable section.

Posted: **Sun Apr 08, 2007 2:06 pm**

isoaker_com wrote:Eva1ence did mention some things that can be considered pros for removable bottles (i.e. dunk-filling in a bucket of water and easier filling in some sink formats).

In most cases you can also dip part of the reservoir in a bucket of water as well as fill them up. Unless you're using a laundry sink, you won't be able to fill up reservoirs completely in most cases, regardless of what kind.

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:38 am**

Portable sink FTW

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:57 pm**

How about just a bucket from Home Depot with water in it...

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:23 pm**

Another reason not to have water bottles is problems with the threads. A friends XP110 (I think) worked wonderfully, WHEN we could get it to stay attached to the gun. Of course, problems with the threads corrupting during use also translated into problems like leaking and flying tank syndrome.

I much prefer fixed tanks.

Adrian

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2007 4:50 pm**

Adrian wrote:Another reason not to have water bottles is problems with the threads. A friends XP110 (I think) worked wonderfully, WHEN we could get it to stay attached to the gun. Of course, problems with the threads corrupting during use also translated into problems like leaking and flying tank syndrome.

I much prefer fixed tanks.

Adrian

I think you're talking about the xp 105, not the 110. Both guns have similar size and performance, but the 110 has an improved fixed reservoir. FTC is indeed a major problem with water bottles. Also, it takes too much time to reload with blasters which has more than one water bottle to fill (i.e. XXP 175)

Edited By JLspacemarine on 1176155698

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:13 pm**

directions for a happy median

1. fill 2 liter bottle with water
2. put top on bottle.
3. when soaker is empty, unscrew bottle top and soaker tank cap
4. empty bottle into tank
5. screw soaker's cap on
6. dispose of bottle
7. soak

Posted: **Mon Apr 09, 2007 10:16 pm**

As someone said before, guns like the 105 and 150 were a great medium because they fit the contour of the blaster well and could thus carry more water and could be dunked into a bucket of water or filled by a faucet. Unfortunately, not only is the FTS a big problem, but getting the threads to actually stick is a problem too. Always messed with me. I'm fine with attached reservoirs.

Posted: **Tue Apr 10, 2007 6:42 pm**

Yeah, I much prefer the fixed reservoirs. I see what you're saying about aiming the threads - it's easier to put the screws on right when you can see around the cap, not holding the bottle upright and spinning the soaker around it.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:21 pm**

SilentGuy wrote:Crashdummy: How do you make sure the bottles don't spill the water? Do they have caps? Sounds neat.

Just a bunch of rubber corks from the hardware store, they are really cheap and get the job done.

WaterWar.net

What happened to the old "Removable Water Bottle?"