Buzz Bee Toys/Water Warriors - News, Suggestions and Other Info

Discussions of all varieties of stock water guns and water blasters.
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Iceman
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Post by Iceman » Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:12 pm

Again, I suggest that it is really a bad idea to mold water blasters really close to firearm counterparts, with the media today and angry parents. Also with all these "accessories". Do we really need them? What use will a foldable stock do on the battlefield? not much. Its all just appeal to me. Id rather have the reservoir up against my shoulder than having the gun too long with a bendable stock.

There is also the statement that the American public wants a water gun that is appealing to the age group of 5-11, and costs under 20 dollars. Remember all these "accessories" everyone is suggesting would jack the price up of the gun.
Will parents pay over 20 dollars for a water gun? not likely.
Will parents pay for a water gun that is realistic to assault firearms? not likely. If the consumer does not buy the product because of jacked up prices during creation and the fact that they look like firearms, why would you buy it?

Why would manufacturers like Big Bee pay attention to the philosophy? I am pretty sure he already stated they are trying to avoid this. However do not let me discourage and ideas you guys may have for the future of Soakers. However do think more practical in terms of the reality of the Soaker market and the Average Customer. Super Soaker can still maintain a bad boy image; Hasbro just needs to step it up in the power department a little bit.
_

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Adrian
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Post by Adrian » Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:55 am

cooldood31 wrote:I think you guys are focusing too much on looks and not enough functionality though.
What we were talking about was how to accomadate under-barrel accessories, which facilitated the redesigning of the soaker into a more conventional shape. I too would like to see function over form. I'd take a single purpose soaker that looked like a tomato soup can over a yet another really fancy retread of the same soaker design. I just wish Hasbro even knew of my opinion.

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isoaker
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Post by isoaker » Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:08 pm

I just wish Hasbro even knew of my opinion.

True, but don't forget this is the Buzz Bee Toys/Water Warriors' thread. :goofy:
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Adrian
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Post by Adrian » Fri Jan 07, 2005 6:45 pm

^^^Aye, them too. Er, given that Big Bee reads this thread, Buzz Bee does know, I just wish I could design soakers.

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“To achieve a World Government it is necessary to remove from their minds their individualism, their loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism and religious dogma.”…..Brock Adams, Director, United Nations Health Organisation.

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cooldood31
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Post by cooldood31 » Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:11 pm

Don't we all? But if I could design soakers, i'd probably get more complaints than hasbro (if that's possible) I'm not that worried about 2006 just yet, Big Bee hasn't dissapointed us yet. Right now I'm looking forward to THIS summer. My current advice for BB, is to improve on the pirahna.

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Post by Big Bee » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:43 am

I'm actually quite intreagued by the shotgun with folding stock design concept. Shouldn't the stock have a function in addition to being just an added on piece of plastic? Maybe a reservoir? Would a change in the weight due to the consumption of water be a problem?

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Post by Adrian » Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:10 am

Ideally the stock would have a function. Folding stock shotguns are usually meant for combat in areas where full-stocked shotguns would be unwieldy - entry situations, usually. Given that controlling recoil on a soaker isn't a high-priority, and most users aren't going to be fighting in a confined space, a folding or telescoping stock wouldn't be of much use. You couldn't use a reservoir for a stock. Collapsible (folding or telescoping) stocks are meant to be lightweight but sturdy, so that kind of leaves that out.

What about making the stock a pump? This'd work especially well if it was a telescoping stock. I'm not sure how useful this would be in battle, or what my fellow water-warriors would think of this, but it could be kind of a neat idea. You'd have to make the stock/pump loose enough that it could fold up or down (or telescope) easily (sometimes pumps get rather hard), but won't flop around. Perhaps some sort of lock?

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Post by isoaker » Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:18 am

I like the stock-pump idea, though it really depends on angles and ease of use. As Adrian noted, putting a reservoir on the stock would shift the balance of the soaker which is not likely a good thing. However, use of a stock to assist pumping when pressures get higher (I recall some saying the Aqua-Masters line gets very hard to pump when pre-pressurized) could be a very good thing. A little leverage goes a long way. :goofy:

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Post by RAK » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:19 pm

when isoaker said angles i thought he was talking about one thing, but he wasnt so i'll propose my idea. when one shoots we all know that 45 is the optimal angle for maximum distance. maybe there could be some sort of device on the soaker to tell what angle it's at. maybe one of those huge guns like the MXL that are overflowing on the store shelves could have a turret and vertical motion that also has an indicator to show what angle it's at. there's my pointless idea.

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Post by olorins » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:22 am

And a decent idea at that, IMHO, given a tad more power than the current MXL. Oh, and give it a constant hose intake option (eg. semi-permanent QFD attachment?), to make it even better for base defense (ie. no need for constant refilling; maybe also less need for pumping?)
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cooldood31
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Post by cooldood31 » Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:01 pm

I like the stock/pump idea. A resivoir/stock would be cool too, and that's what I've been asking for all along.

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Forceuser
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Post by Forceuser » Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:29 pm

What I think would be a good design, would be to have a design similar to the XP Backfire. Imagine it the wrong way round, so the back nozzle is at the front and the other nozzle is non-existant. Then you would pump with the same hand you use for the trigger. What would also be good, would be to have the reservoir to extend over the pump, making it tracked. The complication of this design would be that it would have to have a clever trigger mechanism. There is a real gun that is this shape but I don't know what it's called (though I'm sure Adrian will be able to help with that! :;): )

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Adrian
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Post by Adrian » Sun Jan 16, 2005 12:57 pm

It looks like a flamethrower, but you could be referencing a bullpup gun (like the FN P90), or any gun that simply has a front-mounted handle (like the AMD).

Adrian
“To achieve a World Government it is necessary to remove from their minds their individualism, their loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism and religious dogma.”…..Brock Adams, Director, United Nations Health Organisation.

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Forceuser
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Post by Forceuser » Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:13 pm

Adrian wrote:It looks like a flamethrower, but you could be referencing a bullpup gun (like the FN P90), or any gun that simply has a front-mounted handle (like the AMD).

Adrian
It's not a flame thrower. It looks something along the lines of this but with both handles enclosed (sorry about the bad picture, it was the only one I could find):

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isoaker
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Post by isoaker » Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:32 pm

Dunno 'bout you guys, but I still prefer pumping my soakers using my left hand as I'm right hand dominant. Just feels more natural. Even when using soakers with grip-pumps like the Nerf Switchshots or the Queen Amidala pistol, I'll still grab the pump by my left hand. The XP Backfire felt funny when pumping, partially due to the placement of a trigger on my left hand, and partially because of the badly placed trigger on the grip for my right hand.

Tracked pumps are by far my fav-type of pumps. My main complaint is that pump volumes are often smaller than what they could/should be. I feel the pumps used on the XP150 were a much more useful size (75mL / ~2 oz.).

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Post by NiborDude » Sun Jan 16, 2005 1:35 pm

I like your design, but internals and how it works would be a huge challenge. Water guns usually use a long metal rod to pull the trigger valve. With the handle moving, that form of trigger pulling would not work. It would need a new form of pressure release. I do like the design though. :cool:
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Post by Crashdummy » Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:35 pm

Forceuser wrote:
Adrian wrote:It looks like a flamethrower, but you could be referencing a bullpup gun (like the FN P90), or any gun that simply has a front-mounted handle (like the AMD).

Adrian

It's not a flame thrower. It looks something along the lines of this but with both handles enclosed (sorry about the bad picture, it was the only one I could find):

Image
Oh, you want it to look like an A.U.G. :) I like the lines of those guns, they flow rather well, even the scope.

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Adrian
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Post by Adrian » Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:40 pm

Oh yeah, Steyr AUGs and their more recent incarnation, the AUR. Rumor has it someone's got the blueprints for 'em and is gonna starting building a couple thousand within the year. Nice gun, but not worth the $2500+ pricetag.

That might be a good design for a soaker, esp. if the back end (pretty much everything behind the trigger and handle) were just a big block of hollow plastic for a pressurized resiviour. The folding front handle would work awesome as a pump.

Adrian
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Forceuser
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Post by Forceuser » Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:34 pm

isoaker_com wrote:Dunno 'bout you guys, but I still prefer pumping my soakers using my left hand as I'm right hand dominant. Just feels more natural.
I'm right-handed, but sometimes, with smaller guns, I actually keep my left hand still and move the whole gun with my right. I know it's an interesting way of doing, but I find it easier due to my right arm being stronger. A good point with pumping with your stronger arm, would be that the volume of the pump could be bigger.

As for the trigger, the easy way to do it would be either to make it electronic, or alternatively move it to the front handle (though that might be a bit strange). Otherwise you would have to use a clever mechanical system. I can think of how to do it if the handle was stationary, but could be anywhere along the track, when the trigger is pulled, but not if you're moving the handle.
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Post by cooldood31 » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:05 pm

I prefer "Normal" pumps to moving my trigger hand, and it would be hard to pump while shooting if the stock is the pump. The pumps that buzz bee toys put on the blazer and firefly were great, why not stick with those?

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