Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Discussions of all varieties of stock water guns and water blasters.
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What would you most love to see from 2009 stock water gun/blaster models (pick up to 3 choices)?

Better styling (ergonomics, ease of use)
4
7%
Better colour schemes (no McD's colours)
0
No votes
Improved ranges (farther is better)
14
26%
Increased output (wetter is better)
12
22%
Increased capacity (more is better)
1
2%
Longer shot times (continued continuous streams)
2
4%
More nozzle options (variety is the spice of life)
1
2%
More CPS/elastic-system based models (air and pistons are okay; CPS/elastic are better)
14
26%
Improved durability (stronger is better)
5
9%
Other (please specify)
1
2%
 
Total votes: 54

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isoaker
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Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Post by isoaker » Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:57 am

For the unknown variety of water guns / blasters to greet the store shelves next year, what traits would make you happiest? Of course, if everything could be done, that'd be purely awesome, but if only a few things could be improved at a time, what aspects of current stock water blasters would you wish to see improved upon the most?

Vote in the poll and feel free to add in additional thoughts/comments below.

Soak on!

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Adrian
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Re: Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Post by Adrian » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:32 am

Looks like everyone voted like I did. More CPS, more output, better range. Soakers are already quite durable, color schemes can be fixed w/ spraypaint; it only makes sense that people would want more power.

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Re: Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Post by SSCBen » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:14 am

The "air and pistons are overrated" addition seems out of place. While the precharger series did use pistons and wasn't CPS, with higher air-water ratios air and pistons are easily as constant or more constant than rubber based systems. Pressure and flow are not limited like with rubber CPS. With that being said it's not appropriate for most people because the air chamber needs to be charged and stored empty to prevent overstressing the components, but it's good for enthusiasts and I'd love for some manufacturer to jump in the enthusiast market with it. Given that I'm the only one who's experimented with higher air-water ratios I'm not sure if those comments are directed at the prechargers or some of my recent work.

I suppose I'm ranting. Air pressure does not imply pressure is not relatively constant is all I'm saying.

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Re: Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Post by isoaker » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:32 am

Ben wrote:Given that I'm the only one who's experimented with higher air-water ratios I'm not sure if those comments are directed at the prechargers or some of my recent work.

I suppose I'm ranting. Air pressure does not imply pressure is not relatively constant is all I'm saying.
I'll accept your point and rant. :goofy: The statement was directly solely at stock manufactured blasters created thusfar; while there are some great air-pressure and piston-based soakers (i.e. SS300, XP Pool Pumper Blaster, and X-Stream BlastMaster 660), the CPS-type blasters appear to hold higher value and status to the general membership. That said, I was also considering HydroPower (i.e. diaphagm and spring-based systems) as CPS/elastic systems, not just the original rubber bladder systems. That said, statement modified to clarify.

Of course, now that the Water Warriors PulseBlaster line is known, that series should make at least some members happy with what will be available in 2009 for "on-season" in the Northern Hemisphere. "Down-Under" gets to gloat for now! :goofy:

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Re: Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Post by SSCBen » Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:15 pm

Hmm... I'm not sure if you understood my point. The point was air pressure can have relatively constant pressure and you can call that a CPS. Amending the poll to say "More CPS options" would be the most precise. I don't like anything where the pressure drops too quickly at all.

More on-topic: Generally I think we all already have a good idea of what we want, though maybe not the order of priority. More range, CPS, are the two things I agree with the poll in. More output though I'd have to qualify. Compared against current water guns, I think more output is necessary, but there's a saturation point (pun intended) after 20X or so. I didn't vote for more output for that reason, though after rethinking it maybe I should have. Go figure.

I'm not satisfied with the complicated designs of the past and potentially future. Hasbro's use of two valves when a nozzle selector would be appropriate is a great example of doing it wrong. Thankfully Buzz Bee seems to know how ridiculous some of Hasbro's designs are and are going in the other direction.

I'll write more later. As some of you are aware I'm very busy at the moment.

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Re: Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Post by isoaker » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:16 am

Stating higher ratio air-to-water would yield more constant pressure than rubber-based CPS, diaphragm, or simple spring systems is fine and I accept that point. The choice (CPS/elastic) is still more about using, well, an elastic material to pressurize water instead of air. Such systems are simpler to build and pressurize than air-pressure-systems like the Buzz Bee Toys AquaMaster PreCharger system by not requiring prepressurization of an air chamber. As well, the PreCharger system was already getting quite difficult to pump as is. If pressure were increased, few would be happy pumping as it would be either too tough or pump volume would need to be lowered by quite a bit. The other air-based constant pressure-type system I can think of would need some sort of compressed gas cartridge and a regulator to keep the firing chamber pressure constant. Making an air-pressure-based system perform like a CPS/elastic-type system is most definitely possible, but not as easily. Theoretical performance of an air-based system is even higher than that of a rubber-based system, but from a practical hand-pumpable standpoint, CPS/elastic systems retain the current advantage, IMO.

As for increasing output, that choice isn't meant to suggest increasing output at any cost. As has been noted before, a bucket of water can yield an output of 100x or even 1000x depending on how fast you can dump it, but its range would be minimal. However, if one has a choice between a soaker that can push a 5x stream 30' versus a 50x stream the same distance, methinks the latter would appeal to more members.

I, too, definitely prefer simplicity over complexity, though. Then again, this thread is about what would make *YOU* happy, so air-pressure-based-CPS desires are definitely fine,too, but those would fall under "Other" for these particular choices. :goofy:

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Re: Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Post by marauder » Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:34 pm

I'm actually pretty happy with the performance of most new soakers. The external durability is also quite superior to what it used to be. Unfortunately that whole Max D trigger thing can wear out and break and that makes me VERY angry. I have been taking even more care of my blasters this year than usual. I honestly wouldn't mind going back to the old style triggers even if you lose maybe half a meter of range (which can be made up for with more CPS blasters).
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Re: Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Post by HBWW » Mon Nov 03, 2008 4:38 pm

If a soaker is to have decent range, it must, by the laws of physics, have sufficient output, good enough to saturate someone fairly well, even if it may not be like a bucketfull at close range. I voted durability in reference to the Max-D triggers, many of which are are designed to break within a year, and worse, they're a pain to repair. And obviously, there's a good lack of CPS models on the market, and almost none of the air pressure ones are any good. (some make for good pistols and small weaponry, but that's as far as they go) I'd vote for improved (darker) colors too if I could put a 4th vote down, but functuality has to come first.
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Re: Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Post by marauder » Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:41 pm

C-A_99 wrote:I voted durability in reference to the Max-D triggers, many of which are are designed to break within a year, and worse, they're a pain to repair.
Yeah, that's why I've been buying XP remakes lately.
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Re: Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Post by isoaker » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:08 pm

Something that I should have added to this poll for consideration is blaster size. Performance and power aside, do members have a yearning to see cannon-sized blasters again (i.e. CPS2700 or larger sizes) or would most be content with simply better performing mid-sized blasters (i.e. CPS1000, Blazer, Orca sizes or smaller)?

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Re: Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Post by HBWW » Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:54 am

I'd like to see plenty of both. Larger blasters tend to allow for higher capacities, which allows for larger PC sizes, which turns into slightly longer shot time for high-output and high-range nozzle settings. Either way, they just look plain badass, and most of us can handle them as a primary weapon (given we're not carrying anything else more than water bottles and a pistol) without much trouble.

That said, the medium blasters are still more ergonomical, balanced, and can still produce the power of a larger soaker. However, that rule only really exists for CPS. For a good air pressure system (the one that Ben has recently worked with), you'll need something at least CPS 2000 sized, though something the size of a minigun would be better to allow for more air volume. Air pressure systems have the advantage of being able to change their power level on the fly. (as close as you can get to changing nozzles on the fly w/ the nozzle selectors)

Speaking of nozzle selectors, I'd love not to have to put tape with nozzle labels on my blasters. Those who design them should be smart enough to put labels on the side so you don't have to look right at them to change nozzles. (and the labels should also have arrows that point towards the other nozzles not in use, with a label on them too) Of course, this is of little importance compared to everything else.
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Re: Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Post by Rising Flood » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:42 pm

I voted improved ergonomics, output, and shot time. The recent blasters have been quite user-friendly, but I think they could be a little more practical. Range seemed to be a very popular choice, and I almost voted for it, but I decided on output because I usually participate in soakfests, where output matters more. Finally, I wanted longer shot time. I don't like water guns where you have to pump for a long time, but you get two seconds of shot time. If I'm going to have to spend a long time pressurizing my blaster, I'd better get a long lasting stream for my efforts. :)

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Re: Stock Talk 2009: What would make YOU happy? (Pick 3)

Post by Hannibal » Sun Jan 04, 2009 3:15 am

I'd like to see significantly improved range and stream speed. Standard output should be around 10x. Beyond that, I don't really care.

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