Super Soaker STE Flash Flood Review!

Discussions of all varieties of stock water guns and water blasters.
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Post by Spinner » Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:27 pm

A2: if you have decided that your standards are so high as to reject CPS weaponry when it finally comes, don't bother here. We all know you aren't soaking anymore, so your opinion, I'm afraid, is somewhat devalued, at least in my eyes, since soakers are for those who use them. Don't try and portray yourself as "tough" and "above soaking". We don't have time for people outside soaking barging in and condemning soakers.

I do apologise if this seems flame-esque, so please edit this post as much as and if you wish, iSoaker. Your decision...
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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:23 pm

isoaker_com wrote:
ANNIHILATOR 2 wrote:2-5X like nozzle? PC similar to the SC 600? More powerfuill than an XP? Well people lock your children up, since I do not know how Hasbro could moraly unleash that "Weapon of Mass destruction" on the market! The Insanity!!!

As no soakers made by the usual companies appear to ever be able to meet your standards (as I recall you said once even the CPS2000 didn't cut it anymore), I can only suggest you look towards building your own or get one custom built for you. Your non-constructive sarcasm, however, is definitely not appreciated. Opinions on soakers good and bad are fine, but a ridiculing attitude without even, at the very least, offering some suggestion of ways to improve things are not. These types of remarks will do nothing to help improve the situation or yield better soakers if that is one's end goal. It'll only fuel discontentment and that just brings about other sorts of problems. Again, if you don't like a soaker, that's fine, but state your reasons in a productive/constructive way.

'nuff said.

:cool:

Ah comon isoaker. I am trying to have fun with the 2005 soakers the only way posible (by not buying and using them. ...ZIING!). You don't see me poking fun at Big Bee's 2005 series, do ye? The reason is, because WW trys to overtop their earlier greatest archievents, while SS doesn't. And that is where my sarcasm becomes constructive. SS doesn't have to necesarrly meet my standards, but meet at least rational evolutional standards meaning a tad better in technology than of the CPS2000/CPS2500/CPS3000/CPS1000... depending what retail restrictions are there. Instead they bring out something that is a tad better than the SC600, which other than its shot time was a LAME blaster.

In short, my constructive criticism is: "Not good enough, try again, underarchievers." And after seeing how SS treated Cmd. Bob and some other consumers in the past, I think I am going fairly easy on SS. I understand your worries isoaker, but when I do harsch sarcasm, its more than just senseless blabbering. There usualy is a point. Like you said, you prefer multivating people with honey. I prefer multivating people with a swift verbal kick in the ass.

As for making my own watergun, I don't want to jinks it, but I was/still am working on a project with Doomsoaker this month. I will leave it at that, but if this works out, it will not be an exaturation that most here will think that its a collosal project driven by a gigalomaniac vision. Thats all for now about the project.

A2: if you have decided that your standards are so high as to reject CPS weaponry when it finally comes, don't bother here. We all know you aren't soaking anymore, so your opinion, I'm afraid, is somewhat devalued, at least in my eyes, since soakers are for those who use them. Don't try and portray yourself as "tough" and "above soaking". We don't have time for people outside soaking barging in and condemning soakers.

I do apologise if this seems flame-esque, so please edit this post as much as and if you wish, iSoaker. Your decision...


Tough? Above soaking?Slamming Soakerdom? Oh well. I can't deny I do consider myself above the 2005 series. So you got me there. As for soaking itself, the project I am working on should answer that issue.
As for the "tough" issue, I don't know what you are talking about. But I do apreciate the compliment.
And if I wanted to slam soaker users, I could say things that would get me kicked out of here and I would have alreday said them. So no worries.

Geee. You people have to lighten up. High standards spawn high goals. If that makes me soakerdoms boogie-boy I can live with that. But I should remind people that even though I retired from water battles, I still have an interest in waterguns. And this messege board is dedicated to Soakerdom in General, and is not a Super Soaker groupie-club. My constructive sarcasm is a bitter pill that is perfectly legal and is something the Soaker Comunity has to swallow if they like it or not. After all, I have not flamed ChrisReid, isoaker or Spinner, have I? So everyone relax. It would be a shame to create a hostile atmosphere between members just because of a Lame shooter like the Flash Flood.




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Post by isoaker » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:10 pm

I prefer multivating people with a swift verbal kick in the ass.


If you wish to go kicking one of the major manufacturers to see if it gets them to move, go right ahead. However, as these forums are run by me, I do have some expectations when it comes to how people criticize things. I have no problem with people stating how much they hate a particular soaker or want better soakers so long as it is backed up with some solid info and not just supposedly buried beneath a sarcastic post. You sarcasm not only makes fun of the soaker but also ridicules the members who do consider the soaker a step in the right direction. It does motivate Hasbro, it only effectively offends others who like the progress while failing to provide justification.

If you're working on making the ultimate soaker with Doom, that's great. However, that does not excuse purely sarcastic post. I am reacting a little harsher as well in light of your previous 'disillusioned' with stock soakers at any rate. Your views on what soaking should be are currently in question by myself, but I digress. Consider yourself verbally kicked in the butt to promote you to be more constructive here when it comes to commenting on soakers. If you don't agree with my methods on how to get the manufacturers to bring better designs, that's fine to, but I do expect some standards when it comes to posts from the members here. Your post was far from a kick in the butt to get Hasbro to do more to improve things and just comes off as someone who has lost interest in soaking already whining more about lacking more powerful soakers though no one is sure you'd even use them still.

As for ridiculing Hasbro and not Buzz Bee Toys, that is rather biased, especially considering Buzz Bee Toys is made up of many former engineers from Larami. Even the Water Warriors line is lacking in cannons, not because they can't make them, but because for one reason or another, the market just doesn't support them. As I stated before, I believe neither Buzz Bee Toys nor Hasbro would mind making and selling Monster XL-class soakers with double the power of the CPS2000 so long as it made them money. The reduced power in soakers in general is from some other source external to the manufacturers, I believe, not just because the companies forgot how to make them. As Big Bee noted, soakers priced above $20 don't sell as well. The large CPS-class cannons were $30+. Until the market is ready again for more $30+ soakers, the companies find no reason to make them. I'm just hoping they find that there is a market niche for the larger blasters, but that is definitely done more effectively by working with them, not against.

After all, I have not flamed ChrisReid, isoaker or Spinner, have I?
Actually, indirectly, you flamed anyone who likes the promise of the Super Soaker Flash Flood design.

'nuff said.

:cool:
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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:40 pm

You sarcasm not only makes fun of the soaker but also ridicules the members who do consider the soaker a step in the right direction. It does motivate Hasbro, it only effectively offends others who like the progress while failing to provide justification.


I would have to disagree with that, isoaker. If my coment offends people indirectly, I can't help them. For all i know the Flash flood is their dream soaker or their nightmare. My comment would have been there either way. My sarcasm did point out what I don't like about it. I only used a more flowery direct method.
Also I should mention that my comment had more explaination than a "Way to go Super Soaker" kind of posts before me. Oddly, they didn't have to explain themselves. Just becasue my coment is the other side of the "taste-spectrum" doesn't disqualify it. Like I mentioned, I have not directly insulted any members, so I have not broken any board rules.

[edit]:I am not going to change my opinion just becasue some are over sensitive. Its basic freedom of speech to criticise someones elses opion. Directly or indirectly. Just like right now, when people criticise my opinion directly. I don't mind, and that is how it is supose to be. I don't take any offense to that, so poeple should not take any offense to the criticism at their opinion, especilay if it is not even directly.

Somehow I don't think that retail prices have to do that much with the bleak selection in retail. The 3A and SC600 had the same retail price as the CPS1000. They obviously are not the same performance classes. Clearly there is a management decision somewhere that doesn't have that much to do with the retail price. As for WW having Larimi engeneers, Hasbro having patented CPS, it will make it complicated and pricy for a young company to make diaphram blasters equal to CPS blasters.




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Post by NiborDude » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:51 pm

Honestly, you have offended me. Your posts have been so negative to soakerdom, I don't see how you can deny it.

Hasbro can't just go from the 2004 line, to a huge kick ass line. It's called baby steps. They're age group appeal is on the younger end of the spectrum. Creating huge amazing soakers that you invision is completely out of the question.

If you want to create monster like water guns, thats your buisness. But being so negative to us is an insult that only shows your arrogance.
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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:07 pm

NiborDude wrote:Honestly, you have offended me. Your posts have been so negative to soakerdom, I don't see how you can deny it.

Hasbro can't just go from the 2004 line, to a huge kick ass line. It's called baby steps. They're age group appeal is on the younger end of the spectrum. Creating huge amazing soakers that you invision is completely out of the question.

If you want to create monster like water guns, thats your buisness. But being so negative to us is an insult that only shows your arrogance.
Arrogant?Again with the personal attacks. Thats not very nice.

Super Soaker is a little spectrum of Soakerdom. It doesn't represent it. What now, you work for Hasbro? How can you be personaly offended? How can I be so negative to you if I am not refering to you?

And the baby step thing for Super Soaker is something that is misplaced. We are talking about a multi-million dollar Toy Line that has been around since 1989. We are no longer talking about a baby that trys new things, but a lazy spoiled teen that slacks around.
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Post by isoaker » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:37 pm

Also I should mention that my comment had more explaination than a "Way to go Super Soaker" kind of post before me. Oddly, they didn't have to explain themselves. Just becasue my coment is the other side of the "taste-spectrum" doesn't disqualify it. Like I mentioned, I have not directly insulted any members, so I have not broken any board rules.


As I stated, I have no problem with you not approving of the Flash Flood and feeling that it lacks what you're looking for. However, the attitude your post presents especially being in contrast to what the posts before you stated makes it confrontational. Not all the posts were overjoyed and many, myself included, await to test things out and see some stats before passing final judgement. While not exactly, your post does hover in the realm of flamebait, but not quite. If it definitely broke board rules, it would have been edited or deleted. As it stands in a grey zone, it is being discussed.

It's not a matter that you don't think the soaker is enough; it's a matter of how you chose to present your view, especially in light of your previous posts which put your enjoyment of water warfare already in question. I neither want nor expect you to change your opinion on what is or isn't a good soaker. As I said, your post did not come across as just having an opinion against the soaker, but also includes having an opinion against others who see this as a step in the right direction even if it is a small one. Indirect insults do not make them neglectable, especially when noticed by many others.

As for Hasbro being the spoiled teen, unless you work for Hasbro, it is only then when you can say that they have just been slacking off on their ability to make more powerful soakers. If they were just being lazy, they have just kept re-using the CPS1000 or CPS1200 moulds until they all break. Changes made to the Super Soaker line are likely the result of things outside of being lazy. For whatever reason, there was a noticeable drop in average blaster power since 2000. I take the appearance of new-CPS-based blasters as a sign that whatever the reason was is now being resolved, but they can't just switch back suddenly, either. As a multimillion dollar company, they need to verify that their newer products will yield an improvement in acceptance and in sales over the previous ones. I'd really be surprised if Hasbro's choice to decrease blaster power and no longer have larger soakers on the market for awhile was due to them just being lazy.
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Post by Hyperion330 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:38 pm

Stop the argument. Seriously. This is getting out of hand. I would recommend to Isoaker to delete all the previous negative posts (include this one) and forget the ordeal in its entirety. We don't need arguments in this community. Take your grumps to GameFAQs.
:(
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Post by isoaker » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:48 pm

Hyperion330 wrote:Stop the argument. Seriously. This is getting out of hand. I would recommend to Isoaker to delete all the previous negative posts (include this one) and forget the ordeal in its entirety. We don't need arguments in this community. Take your grumps to GameFAQs.
:(

I've been considering that since I've now watched how this thread is unfolding. I'll look at this thread once again in the morning and make a decision on it then. I don't want DA or anyone else feel as if they can't be critical or expect more from manufacturers. I also don't want members to not appreciate aspects of DA's view, either. However, I am hoping somehow that those involved in the latter part of this thread see why it went this route and, hopefully, do their part to prevent such an occurence in the future.

Opinions are one thing. Sarcastic and/or directly/indirectly insulting statements are another.

This thread has degraded and will be remedied, but I want to pause a moment before doing so.

:cool:
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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:17 pm

isoaker_com wrote:
Also I should mention that my comment had more explaination than a "Way to go Super Soaker" kind of post before me. Oddly, they didn't have to explain themselves. Just becasue my coment is the other side of the "taste-spectrum" doesn't disqualify it. Like I mentioned, I have not directly insulted any members, so I have not broken any board rules.


As I stated, I have no problem with you not approving of the Flash Flood and feeling that it lacks what you're looking for. However, the attitude your post presents especially being in contrast to what the posts before you stated makes it confrontational. Not all the posts were overjoyed and many, myself included, await to test things out and see some stats before passing final judgement. While not exactly, your post does hover in the realm of flamebait, but not quite. If it definitely broke board rules, it would have been edited or deleted. As it stands in a grey zone, it is being discussed.

It's not a matter that you don't think the soaker is enough; it's a matter of how you chose to present your view, especially in light of your previous posts which put your enjoyment of water warfare already in question. I neither want nor expect you to change your opinion on what is or isn't a good soaker. As I said, your post did not come across as just having an opinion against the soaker, but also includes having an opinion against others who see this as a step in the right direction even if it is a small one. Indirect insults do not make them neglectable, especially when noticed by many others.

As for Hasbro being the spoiled teen, unless you work for Hasbro, it is only then when you can say that they have just been slacking off on their ability to make more powerful soakers. If they were just being lazy, they have just kept re-using the CPS1000 or CPS1200 moulds until they all break. Changes made to the Super Soaker line are likely the result of things outside of being lazy. For whatever reason, there was a noticeable drop in average blaster power since 2000. I take the appearance of new-CPS-based blasters as a sign that whatever the reason was is now being resolved, but they can't just switch back suddenly, either. As a multimillion dollar company, they need to verify that their newer products will yield an improvement in acceptance and in sales over the previous ones. I'd really be surprised if Hasbro's choice to decrease blaster power and no longer have larger soakers on the market for awhile was due to them just being lazy.

My refering to Hasbros lazyness is focused on their conceptual skills. They prity much re-used the small CPS with 2X-5X concept and put it in a Secret Strike like frame. That result would not require a great amount of brainstorming.

I ain't going to lie. My enjoyment in contemporary water warfare is minimal. I think there is much more potenctial in soakerdom than what most thought it could be. And if I am the only one who has to point it out, regardless how unpopular that theory might be, I will point that out.
But this topic doesn't have to do really that much about what I think soakerdom could reach, but just simply Super Soaker pulling itself together. 2005, 16 years after the SS50, Super SOaker comes out with the Flash Flood. SS had that sarcastic coment coming.

As for sarcastic coments, they are acceptable in most Academic debates aslong they still connect to the topic and are not direct personal attacks. At the risk of me sounding more like a jerk, in a debate or discussion, people might have to lean to take their opinion and other's counter opinions not personal. In other words,its all a game. Thats what my sarcastic criticism was all meant for. If peoples prides are hurt by insulting just a tiny aspect of their hobby, then they just simply take that hobby a tiny bit to serious.

Its your decision isoaker, but I would suggest not to erase or edit anything. All in all, this is a fairly good discussion.




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Post by Shadowstrike Prime » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:43 am

"As no soakers made by the usual companies appear to ever be able to meet your standards (as I recall you said once even the CPS2000 didn't cut it anymore),"


Yeah... if the 2000 doesn't meet his standards anymore, than I'd say he's pretty much a lost cause. It's one thing to want more power, but I don't expect my Transformers to transform on their own, or my Halo toys to go around kicking ass on their own. There's a cut-off point for reasonable wants and needs with this stuff.
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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:01 am

Shadowstrike Prime wrote:
"As no soakers made by the usual companies appear to ever be able to meet your standards (as I recall you said once even the CPS2000 didn't cut it anymore),"


Yeah... if the 2000 doesn't meet his standards anymore, than I'd say he's pretty much a lost cause. It's one thing to want more power, but I don't expect my Transformers to transform on their own, or my Halo toys to go around kicking ass on their own. There's a cut-off point for reasonable wants and needs with this stuff.

The CPS2000 is overated. 55 feet max distance with around 25X of output. Thats not that much. After deconstructing the CPS2000 myth, Wanting more is not unreasonable. To put the CPS2000 in a Transformers comparison, the CPS2000 would not be much more than a G1 Megatron or G1 Shockwave equivalent. Rare in the market, yet structualy/technicaly past its prime. And all I would want is an upgrade to at least something in a G1 Omega Supreme or G1 Black Zarak league. The CPS 2000 is definatly not something like a Masterpiece Optimus Prime or Fortress Maximus. And right now, 2005 is like something from the Beast Wars Line. (EES and 2004 was Gobots).
In short, the CPS 2000 is not the theoretical/reasonable limit of what soakers can be.




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Post by Big Bee » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:36 am

Please forgive my extremely biased opinion on this, but this appears to me to be a pretty good blaster. It is in my personal best interest for all companies to have the best they can make in the market and allow that competetion to generate excitement in the market and grow the business in general. Wether someone likes a particular model or not is simply personal taste and the very reason there are so many styles in the market already. In my humble opinion, this is a step in the right direction for Super Soaker. Let's give credit where credit is due, evaluate the product for for it's strengths and weaknesses and get on with soaking.

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Post by isoaker » Wed Jan 12, 2005 7:01 am

In short, the CPS 2000 is definatly not the theoretical limit of what soakers can be.

That is true. However, there are also limits, IMO, on what a soaker SHOULD be. I'd go as far as stating a soaker's max. range should remain capped at the 75' mark with nozzles larger than 25x capped at about 20'. Fire hoses and such can push water out much farther (100' +), but the thought of people wielding firehose-equivalents for a soaker battle makes the battle basically pointless. Pushing the range or output too far would be akin to two people engaged in a martial arts competition, then one of them pulling out a LaserTag gun and tagging the other person from a distance to gain the point. Sure you can give both players LaserTag guns and the can duke it out at farther distances, but now it's not martial arts, it's LaserTag.

While sarcasm may be accepted in debates, I neither consider it good form to be belittling another nor was the origin of the thread begun as a debate, rather as a report. Sarcasm in general conversation (which is what most threads here are like) works well when there is group concensus on a topic but works very poorly when countering many people's opinions. The problem here is that you are not coming across as an advocate of wanting more powerful soakers, getting people to want to rally behind your views. Instead, your initial posts made it appear as if you could never be satisfied and just strictly sarcastic in general. In its form, it does not further discussion on the topic, rather it only brings about an unpleasant air into an otherwise hopeful, but still looking for more info, environment. Your post was not just a counter opinion to which people took offense when they shouldn't have. Your later posts giving more info on things you are hoping for are far more helpful in terms of understanding your perspective.

:cool:
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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:29 pm

isoaker_com wrote:
In short, the CPS 2000 is definatly not the theoretical limit of what soakers can be.

That is true. However, there are also limits, IMO, on what a soaker SHOULD be. I'd go as far as stating a soaker's max. range should remain capped at the 75' mark with nozzles larger than 25x capped at about 20'. Fire hoses and such can push water out much farther (100' +), but the thought of people wielding firehose-equivalents for a soaker battle makes the battle basically pointless. Pushing the range or output too far would be akin to two people engaged in a martial arts competition, then one of them pulling out a LaserTag gun and tagging the other person from a distance to gain the point. Sure you can give both players LaserTag guns and the can duke it out at farther distances, but now it's not martial arts, it's LaserTag.

While sarcasm may be accepted in debates, I neither consider it good form to be belittling another nor was the origin of the thread begun as a debate, rather as a report. Sarcasm in general conversation (which is what most threads here are like) works well when there is group concensus on a topic but works very poorly when countering many people's opinions. The problem here is that you are not coming across as an advocate of wanting more powerful soakers, getting people to want to rally behind your views. Instead, your initial posts made it appear as if you could never be satisfied and just strictly sarcastic in general. In its form, it does not further discussion on the topic, rather it only brings about an unpleasant air into an otherwise hopeful, but still looking for more info, environment. Your post was not just a counter opinion to which people took offense when they shouldn't have. Your later posts giving more info on things you are hoping for are far more helpful in terms of understanding your perspective.

:cool:

I wonder, does an opinion always have to spawn followers? I always intend for my opinions to be just out there to mark its terretory in the conceptual cosmos. Convincing People, or having them to agree with me was never an issue.
But what I can do in the future, is my upcoming sarcastic reviews to be abit less agressive and followed by a more detailed paragraph.

75 feet seems good to me. Its not that much the distance for me, but more of a pressure issue what I want. WHat I think soakerdom could archieve would be a soaker that would actualy hurt when one gets hit. It doesn't necessarly have to leave bruises(even though it would be cool), but the hit should be atleast unpleasantly felt. It makes avoiding streams more sincere. ALso it doesn't matter if someone is alreday soaked. Soaked or not soaked, you wouldn't want to get hit. Protective eye wear is a must, but not much of an issue.




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Post by cooldood31 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 3:47 pm

a sting would just take the fun of soaking away. The point in soaking isn't to make someone feel unpleasant, i'ts for getting people wet. I nerf. I play paintball. Each of these sports has it's own kind of fun. Making soakers sting would be like running bases in basketball, or shooting for a hoop in football. It's just not soaking. In many nerf wars they dissallow homemades due to having too much power. I plan on doing the same thing in my soaker wars. If you want the shots to sting and leave bruises, play paintball and quit hindering the healthy growth of soakerdom.

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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:00 pm

cooldood31 wrote:a sting would just take the fun of soaking away. The point in soaking isn't to make someone feel unpleasant, i'ts for getting people wet. I nerf. I play paintball. Each of these sports has it's own kind of fun. Making soakers sting would be like running bases in basketball, or shooting for a hoop in football. It's just not soaking. In many nerf wars they dissallow homemades due to having too much power. I plan on doing the same thing in my soaker wars. If you want the shots to sting and leave bruises, play paintball and quit hindering the healthy growth of soakerdom.

I never liked the "love it or leave it" suggestions. Why should I play paintball when I already do airsoft? I actualy value model/frame quality. And why not influence water warfare with outside ideas? Thats how progress usualy happened in basic global history. If there is a growth in soakerdom, it should drink its milk, since I haven't seen much conceptual/technical progress since 1996. Also, Soakerdom is big enough for multiple soaking concepts. It doesn't matter if my concept is unpopular among contemporary soaker users. There at least should be the option available.

Its actually quite simple. Creating a new industry is the key. The traditional water warfare is in Toy section, while the Water Warfare I propose is in the outdoor sports section.




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Post by isoaker » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:23 pm

I thought one about pushing water warfare into more of the sports area/outdoor sports section rather than just in the toys section. The problem there is just that it just isn't popular enough to gain the support of manufacturers to product the type of product that will suffice for such a sport. As paintballers may (or may not) know, their sport originated since the device was already at hand, though for a slightly different purpose (i.e. tagging trees). There was no need to create a new piece of equipment to start things off. Of course, newer paint ball guns have been modified from the original tree-tagging equipment, but the popularity of the original device gave companies enough research money to be able to invest in doing more with it.

That said, paintballs have better ranges and bruise as well when compared to soakers. Even a powerful soaker that perhaps shoots as far as 100' would be at a serious disadvantage when compared to paintball. As Paintball as a sport exists, being able to introduce a shorter range water warfare as a sport is less likely. This doesn't mean it's impossible, just less likely and less incentive for companies to develop such devices since they'd be starting to compete with the paintball/airsoft crowds for users though having things that become too dangerous (a soaker that manages to push out a good payload of water at paintball distances could do a lot more than bruise at close range. Paintballs weigh a lot less than a stream of water).

Soakerdom is big enough for multiple soaking concepts.

Exactly, which is why your original sarcastic comment left a sour taste. Wanting bigger and more powerful is fine, but don't forget to give credit where it is due since these type of soakers are for the common consumer, not the 'harder-core-wanting-the-BFG-soaker" people. I believe the Flash Flood is the perfect type of soaker for a SoakerTag-type game which, well, is what it is meant for.

At any rate, this thread has drifted (and I know I'm partly to blame). If we are to dive deeper into the potential developments of new water warfare games, I recommend beginning a new thread.

:cool:
:: Leave NO one dry! :: iSoaker.com .:

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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:38 pm

isoaker_com wrote:I thought one about pushing water warfare into more of the sports area/outdoor sports section rather than just in the toys section. The problem there is just that it just isn't popular enough to gain the support of manufacturers to product the type of product that will suffice for such a sport. As paintballers may (or may not) know, their sport originated since the device was already at hand, though for a slightly different purpose (i.e. tagging trees). There was no need to create a new piece of equipment to start things off. Of course, newer paint ball guns have been modified from the original tree-tagging equipment, but the popularity of the original device gave companies enough research money to be able to invest in doing more with it.

That said, paintballs have better ranges and bruise as well when compared to soakers. Even a powerful soaker that perhaps shoots as far as 100' would be at a serious disadvantage when compared to paintball. As Paintball as a sport exists, being able to introduce a shorter range water warfare as a sport is less likely. This doesn't mean it's impossible, just less likely and less incentive for companies to develop such devices since they'd be starting to compete with the paintball/airsoft crowds for users though having things that become too dangerous (a soaker that manages to push out a good payload of water at paintball distances could do a lot more than bruise at close range. Paintballs weigh a lot less than a stream of water).

Soakerdom is big enough for multiple soaking concepts.

Exactly, which is why your original sarcastic comment left a sour taste. Wanting bigger and more powerful is fine, but don't forget to give credit where it is due since these type of soakers are for the common consumer, not the 'harder-core-wanting-the-BFG-soaker" people. I believe the Flash Flood is the perfect type of soaker for a SoakerTag-type game which, well, is what it is meant for.

At any rate, this thread has drifted (and I know I'm partly to blame). If we are to dive deeper into the potential developments of new water warfare games, I recommend beginning a new thread.

:cool:

My sarcastic coment was more intended to criticise SS efforts. My soaker ideals was something that came up in this thread seperatly, I think.

Im just going to post this, and then I will continue on a new thread, if it will be available. Paintball is the wrong concept to take as an example for my idea.Especialy since CO2 on a soaker will not be effectivly possible. I was thinking more of Airsoft like qualities(Spring devision). There are more serious Springer battles than soaker battles. While the spring-mechanism bb has a max range of 120 feet, the effective range is around 75 feet. Also a large attraction of Airsoft is the gun model look. Something Painball lacks since there is no primary attraction to the gun models.
SO as you see distance of 75-80 feet is adequate. And the Riffle/Gun models for that new soaker warfare ideal can reach more new followers by puting great emphises on frame design. Think of it that way: If the BB simulates a bullet, the Water Stream can simulate a Gaus Rifle/Plasma blast.

Finding consumers for this new sport will mainly depend on marketing.




Edited By ANNIHILATOR 2 on 1105566181
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Classical Spirit: Constantly improve power, pressure and style over previous state of the art water gun models. The ideal of "power progress", a nowdays non existent concept in retail water guns since 1997.

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Post by RAK » Wed Jan 12, 2005 6:13 pm

i was gonna say something yesterday but i put faith into the thread getting itself back on track.. guess not.

to everyone arguing: stop. this thread is awesome in that it reveals the real stuff behind one of the new soakers. it's amazing that CPS is back. remember EES? MAXD? remember how we all cried at the horrible crap produced then? these look COOL. i never said that about something hasbro made in like 3 years. enjoy this close-look that chris is giving us and let's just discuss the soaker and not get into (at least not in this thread) who said what and what's good. no one needs me to tell them that but i'm doing it for the sake of me knowing that i tried. go take it outside, as they say.

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