Next year's line-up - What would you like to see?

Discussions of all varieties of stock water guns and water blasters.
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Evangel
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Post by Evangel » Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:57 pm

Personally, I'd really like to see something that rivals or surpasses the Monster XL in size and price (or even just re-release the Monster series), just so my friends and I can go to a store and walk up to a bunch of kids drooling over them, and toss like 2 or 3 of them in our cart like they're nothing lol. Kinda mean but... it'd be kinda funny.

Actually what I think would be interesting is maybe some kind of shoulder-mounted cannons or something.

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isoaker
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Post by isoaker » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:54 am

What I'd like to see next year and in all years coming are at least some soakers designed with the soaker enthusiast in mind. This would entail a little more thought into soaker design, reducing the amount of extraneous stuff and focusing on aspects of soakers than enhance overall performance and usability.

Casings should look slick, but not have too much extra plastic. Grips should at least be textured, if not even rubberized. Larger blasters should have some sort of handle or strong point to hold onto to make it easier when refilling. Reservoirs should be able to make use of virtually all of its capacity without needing to do some weird rocking or leaning the soaker to an awkward angle. It should be easier to determine how much water one was remaining in a reservoir, either by the tanks being more transparent or having some sort of fill indicator. PCs (if applicable) should be able to push out streams firing at least 35' on the largest nozzle setting and potentially a little farther on optimized nozzle settings. PCs should also be able to empty the bulk of their capacity without needing to hold the soaker at a non-typical angle (I figure most typically use a soaker holding it level to angled up to 60-degrees from horizontal). Pump volumes need to be increased without making them too hard to pump. (IMO, the XP150 had the best pump volume for a single-piece soaker.) All soakers could use either a strap or a holster to allow multiple soakers to be carried.

I don't mind the creation of other soakers or even gimmicky soakers as well, but a few solid, water war oriented water blasters is always desirable.

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HBWW
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Post by HBWW » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:53 pm

Transparent (or semi-transparent, to make it harder for opponents) PC's and reservoirs are such a simple, effective way of gauging pressure/ammo, one has to wonder why the Oozinator they never did them. (except on the earlier guns, but only the reservoir was transparent) After that, let's see some fast fill valves instead of those annoying threaded caps. Seriously, I can't believe I was the only one to think of those...

As for range, anything below 35ft is pretty bad for what we're capable of; nowadays, even pistols should at least go farther than that when angled.

Obviously, firing angles could be easily settled if more guns were CPS instead of air pressure chambers shaped for a gimmicky design; shapes that that don't channel air effectively and require intake tubes. Most, if not all, of the water war oriented blasters are from BBT. The Arctic Blast and Flash Flood as well as Max-D's are decent sidearms, but that's the best from Hasbro. (heck, they didn't even make the Max-D's)

Anyways, since I'm more for practicality and power than size, I'd like to see at least something a bit similar to the design I submitted for the Aqua Flash contest. (which I'm still curious as to what AF is going to do with his 2100 prize) Intimidation and what not can be created through creative shaping and coloring, which would work better than making a blaster unecessarily larger, and plus, since they're lighter and not oversized, you can dual wield them like they're nothing... (while the kid with the pistol quietly follows you)

Back to reality, all we can really hope to see right now is some of the same stuff. Sure, we had a change from last year when the HydroBlitz and Orca were released, but I'm not expecting any huge changes. HB, while an attempt at creating a kickass looking soaker, still failed (as evident by how early they got cleared off the shelves), and Orca had quite some design problems (with the trigger, the inverted cap and intake, the indirect PC's, etc.) though it was still a fairly decent gun compared to what else was released.

Well, I guess I posted this just to put in some explanation and ideas, though it sounds more like my usual rantings and complaints.
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cobralex297
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Post by cobralex297 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 3:32 pm

I would like anything CPS, with which there is more performance than flair or gimmick, preferably spherical PC, however that is doubtful.

SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Mon Oct 15, 2007 6:56 pm

The two most major companies are making efforts to produce larger water guns. However, I do not like the fact that power still is low compared to previous years. Producing water guns on par with the CPS 1000/1200/2100 class would be a great improvement. Larger guns, similar to the CPS 2500 or CPS 1500, would be highly appreciated as well.

I'd also like to see spherical chambered water guns be used more often too, but I have a feeling that they avoid those designs because of how easily they can be modified.

They might be unwilling to make thicker CPS chambers due to cost concerns, but the "$20 limit" has been broken with the HydroBlitz. Though, they spent most of that money on extra plastic. I think safety may also be a concern, but that's sketchy as well. To be honest, I have no idea what may be produced in the future.

With that being said, next year will see the introduction of at least one smaller water gun producing business. If you know what I mean. :;):

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cobralex297
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Post by cobralex297 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:13 pm

@Ben: I don't think that the cost of extra plastic would have actually brought the production cost anywhere near what they were asking.

I really wonder why exactly it is that the companies have been so anti-modification... I mean, they have already sold the gun to whoever's modifying it, it's out of their hands - I don't see what they have to lose.

Spherical PC would be wonderful, but without one it doesn't have to be bad at all, I don't understand why companies fail to produce good, powerful guns with cylindrical pressure chambers, when they have consistently done so in the past. Safety is definitely not an issue.

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Post by DX » Mon Oct 15, 2007 7:30 pm

Some personal ideas/suggestions [some may repeat above suggestions]:

Stop with the Double Standard - @Hasbro. Nerf vs Super Soaker. Which line has clear favoritism? If you don't want guns modded, then how do you explain the Nitefinder? If you want your products to gain more exposure, why do you court nerfers, but not water fighters? You go to certain nerf wars, but you ignore us here, especially me [Hasbro has never answered a Duxburian email]. Which line is worth more? Well let's see - a Crossbow will fetch $70 on Ebay, but a CPS 2000 can grab over $250. If shelf space prevents larger guns, then how the **** do you explain the LONGSHOT? :goofy:

Elimination of Design Flaws - No more weak triggers, poorly placed tubing, crappy trigger valve springs, etc. American goods were once of the finest quality in the world. Now in 2007 we can't even design things [that we don't even produce ourselves] well?

Spherical CPS - I don't care if it is weak CPS, but if it is spherical, I will be quite satisfied. The argument that companies don't want their guns modded doesn't fly anymore - I've spent time in the NIC. Nerf guns absolutely scream 'MOD ME!"

40ft Standard Range - I've dropped the demands of the old 50ft standard. A stock soaker shooting 40 is only about 5ft away from matching light K's. 40 should be easy and safe enough. The correlation between high range and safety concerns is extremely weak at best. Stream speed and stream concentration are more responsible for that.

Battle Practicality - *Cough Hydroblitz Cough* But just to be fair, I am probably the community's toughest customer when it comes to this. I have high performance needs - a "good" soaker to me has to perform well and be something I can drag through a thornbush. Compactness, balance, durability, and a high power-to-size ratio are must haves.

Larger Pump Volume - echo of iSoaker and the XP 150. The 150 was an incredible gun for its day, surprising even me in how little you have to pump it.

Transparent Pump Shaft - Again with the XP 150. I love how you can see the water filling in behind the pump when extended.

Intake Valve at Bottom of Reservoir - We like to be able to use all the water in a reservoir.

Good-Looking Features/Gimmicks - A stock would be an interesting gimmick that actually does something. A streamlined design looks slick and raises a gun's cool factor. The 2000/2500 design is damn sexy, while the Arctic Shock design looks like something you'd find in a Big Kids' Meal.

@Secret Hasbro Forum Presence who will likely see this - I'm calling your company out this year. The free market has judged you and found you wanting. Make some major improvements this year or Buzz Bee Toys will clean up house. Never take market dominance for granted. A better company with a better gameplan will run you over.

@Buzz Bee Toys - Godspeed. :cool:
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

Drenchenator
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Post by Drenchenator » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:17 pm

If shelf space prevents larger guns, then how the **** do you explain the LONGSHOT?

I agree completely. The Longshot is almost as large as my Nerf homemade, which is quite long itself. I remember my little brother bought the Longshot just because "it's so big." Size sells.

I would personally like to see soakers that are larger more than anything else. I really don't like the "CPS pistols." What I really would like would be something like the CPS 1000/1200/2100 because they have the best combination of size and power.
The Drenchenator, also known as Lt. Col. Drench

sbell25
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Post by sbell25 » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:32 pm

I'd really like Buzz Bee to continue making bigger and better blasters. One thing that bothers me though, is how the Buzz Bee blasters struggle with the larger streams. And it could be very easily fixed!

When my Piranha broke a while ago, I decided to have a proper look at the valve that they're using. Yes, it is just a ball valve like the Max-D triggers, but for some reason the hole in the ball is only 5mm; thus making the Internal Diameter of Water Warriors guns only 5mm. The largest nozzle (also 5mm) isn't getting 'fed' properly, which is why my Triple Shot's large nozzle easily outperforms the large nozzle on my Piranha, because it has an adequately sized valve! For those who don't know, read this SSCentral Article for info about Internal Diameter.

As further proof that it's not the thickness of the rubber that's lacking in Water Warriors guns, I replaced my Piranha's PC with my 2700's PC. And the stream performance was EXACTLY the same. The 2700 performs so much better mainly because of it's larger ID, giving the larger nozzles more flow and adequate pressure.

I reckon if they just increased the valve size, and the rest of the tubing between the valve and nozzle as well, you probably would get similar stream performance to the CPS guns from 2000-2002.

As for Hasbro, I don't really care what they come out with. I like my Flash Floods and my Triple Shot, but I don't really expect anything from them anymore.

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cobralex297
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Post by cobralex297 » Tue Oct 16, 2007 2:50 pm

I forwarded a link to this page to a nice guy at Hasbro that I've spoken with over email a few times in the past, he's been quite friendly in communication, however I doubt that he will be able to do much with the information here - which stinks, because IMO these helpful customer opinions which are (I think) usually gathered through polling [costs money], are being handed to him as if on a platter. I'd actually be curious to know where the designs for the soakers come from and whose job it is to approve them, but I can almost certainly say that it is not the guy I've been speaking with.

SSCBen
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Post by SSCBen » Tue Oct 16, 2007 8:53 pm

I really wonder why exactly it is that the companies have been so anti-modification... I mean, they have already sold the gun to whoever's modifying it, it's out of their hands - I don't see what they have to lose.


Larami and Hasbro have taken some heat over the safety of their products. They don't want to be found liable for anything, and that means a policy of not commenting on modifications. Buzz Bee Toys does a similar thing.

Back in the early 90s, there was a lot of pressure on Larami about the safety of their product. Some product safety people declared water guns like the SS100 to be potentially dangerous, especially if other chemicals are put into the chamber. That and obviously dangerous modifications are their main concern from what I can tell. To go into detail on a specific event I know about, on May 17, 1992, a kid named Jeff Pregent modified a water gun with a glass bottle as the pressure chamber. The bottle exploded, severing his carotid artery. He spent two days in intensive care. After that he spoke at a press conference about the safety of the Super Soaker. Those are the kind of events the companies don't want to see. (And no, I'm not making it up either. I read about this in a newspaper.)

Do I know about any other specific events? Yes, but they're not as bad as that one. That's the worst case I've read about. And it's actually the only case I've heard about when it comes to modifying water guns (the others are about chemicals put in Super Soakers). And not surprisingly, I haven't found any evidence of the CPS 2000 incident.

I'd like to hear a more "official" reasoning, but until that happens, this is the best I can provide.

Hasbro has never answered a Duxburian email


I almost got Hasbro to provide some information about the 2005 Super Soaker line when I got an email from a press representative, but they rudely never replied. Big corporate politics stink. I do know iSoaker has a few contacts from what he's said over the years, but aside from that, I know no one with contacts.

The Nerf double standard is a problem. Never made any sense to me. They got several people to meet everyone at Hasbro, yet the only one who's met anyone here is iSoaker. And every popular Nerf website promotes modifications. That's simply a double standard.

With that being said, I do recall iSoaker saying there was to be a meeting of water gun enthusiasts with Hasbro back in 2003, but it was never finalized. I'd like to see something like that in the future.

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