Yet another complaint

Discussions of all varieties of stock water guns and water blasters.
mr. dude
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Post by mr. dude » Wed Jan 31, 2007 2:31 pm

I decided to be another one of us to have complained to Hasbro. If they get enough e-mails, maybe they'll get the hint that we're not happy? Anyway, here's what I sent them:

Why don't you continue making, or at least re-release the old line of water guns. Make all your customers happy, not just the little kids. I know for a fact I'm not the only one that would love to see the Overload, Defender and many other current guns replaced by CPS's and larger XP's.
The Flash Flood and Aquapack Devastator, and even the Triple-Shot were a good step in the right direction, keep going in the right direction. While it is nice to see a volcano-shped hose attachment, or a gun with a pistol and a sponge slapped on it, can those things really stand up to a beast with 8L of water? You've given us time to miss them, now give them back to us.
The guns I mentioned above are all lightweight with some power, which is good, but we want to see heavyweight things, not necessarily dangerous power, but power.
Thank you for reading this, please, make the public happy.


I do understand that I can just buy stuff from BBT, or make my own gun, but I want Hasbro to make some respectable things as well should my homemade fail.
Just though I should bring this up. This could be the 'complaints' topic or something, what do you think?

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Post by HBWW » Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:10 pm

This problem has been complained about for 4-5 years, and due to some marketing issues, there isn't (or at least wasn't) terribly much they can do about it. However, the only major marketting issues seem to be shelf space, and perhaps the fact that most people won't may over $30 for a water gun. (though stuff over $25 isn't that popular either) With this in mind, there is no apparent reason guns like the CPS 1000 (which can easily be handled by a good deal of Hasbro's targetted audience: kids) aren't back up, they can very well be sold for near $20, considering the flash flood is typically at $15-$20, but the soaker manufacturers have changed quite a bit.

For next year, keep an eye on the HydroBlitz, it has a lot of potential and looks like it'll be better than anything they've made in the past few years.
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Rook
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Post by Rook » Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:11 pm

I personally think that for one: we've tried it. It's not gonna work. And two: didn't we have some rather large topic discussing how this won't work and that we shouldn't bother? ???

Yes, the old guns were better. We want them back. But this won't work.

I apologize for my negativity. :(
My Armoury: Storm 750, CPS 4100, Triple Aggressor, Blazer, SI Flash Flood (Nozzle Drilled), 100 oz. Aquapack, MONSTER X (2002), WW Argon, A.R.M. 4000 XL, MI Defender, MI Helix, Water Weapons Waveblast, CPS 2700

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Post by WaterWolf » Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:38 pm

HERE HERE!

Long live the Heavy-Beam CPS guns.

:cps3000: :cps2000: :cps2500: :cps1500:
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isoaker
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Post by isoaker » Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:51 pm

Ok, it's time for iSoaker's 3.1415 cents...

Venting and complaining to Hasbro lets them know of customer dis-satisfaction with the current crop of Super Soaker products. While *they* know of our gripes, there are many other factors that influence what soakers can and end up appearing on retailer shelving. I should also note that, in many ways, it is not Hasbro that sets what appears on store shelves, rather it is the retailers who choose what to buy from prototype models who ends up truly deciding what products will be sold.

One thing that hasn't been tried is also concurrently sending complaint letters to retailers, stating how their customers want bigger soakers as well. If places like Walmart and Toys'R'Us were willing to stock bigger soakers, I'm sure that Hasbro would be more than happy to make them.

In the end, it is unfair to blame Hasbro alone for the current Super Soaker crop. While they could probably do a little more within the price range they can play with, they are still being limited since retailers probably wouldn't want to carry larger soakers unless they can be shown that the bigger blasters sell really well (why sell 10000 Monster XLs when you can stock 100000 Defenders in the same space and make that much more profit?).

I love the cannons of yester-year, but I also understand the problems faced by the companies involved. With the release of the HydroBlitz this year, perhaps it is both Hasbro's and retailers' test to see if bigger soakers can truly sell again. With some luck, this year will be the turning point and larger will become more common again (though I doubt we'd see a CPS2500-type soaker for awhile). I'm forever the optimist when it comes to these things, though... :goofy:

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Post by SilentGuy » Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:21 pm

isoaker_com wrote:(why sell 10000 Monster XLs when you can stock 100000 Defenders in the same space and make that much more profit?)

You make a good point. But I wouldn't go as far to say it's really a matter of shelf space (or at least not to that extent); just the demand.

Okay, maybe we liked $30 soakers. But not every person is willing to fork over that little amount, especially since soaking is supposed to be a cheap, commonplace hobby relative to paintball or airsoft or something. Even my parents weren't keen on me buying my CPS 4100 for that much.

And then there's the $40 Hydroblitz. Agreeably, some of the best CPS soakers were cheap--but why those aren't produced I don't know.

This is just my opinion, and I'd rather not get into another long conversation...again. Over and out. :sleeping:




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Post by HBWW » Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:23 pm

Well, we can still blame hasbro for offering the option to the crappier soakers. :p

The rather sudden removal of the CPS line was rather odd, back in 2003. They still floated around, including the infamous 4100 of 2004, but no new models.

Hey, maybe putting popular soakers of the old days (like the ones that sell for high prices on ebay) wouldn't do that bad, considering the demand for them is raising constantly. Just a thought.
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Post by forestfighter7 » Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:46 pm

(Jan. 31 2007,18:21,SilentGuy)
Okay, maybe we liked $30 soakers. But not every person is willing to fork over that little amount, especially since soaking is supposed to be a cheap, commonplace hobby relative to paintball or airsoft or something. Even my parents weren't keen on me buying my CPS 4100 for that much.


This is true, however it's important to look at everything else Hasbro is selling. They can sell the Longshot(a nerf gun) for $30, and the longshot is quite big.

IMO, the closest we can get to a new cps gun is the hydroblitz, and I
agree with isoaker on pretty much everything.

I personally wrote to Hasbro(by hand)and all I got was $9 in coupons. I support the cause of having better water guns, even if I do think that complaining to Hasbro won't help.
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mr. dude
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Post by mr. dude » Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:11 pm

Oh, so now we're talking about price? I've seen Defenders for $20, FF for $30, Overloads for $40, 4100 for $40, Mxl for $80. I know they want a profit but that's just stretching the limit.

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Post by SilentGuy » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:43 pm

But what is it that really keeps the price high? Not really the size, more the quality. But these prices really aren't too exorbitant for what you're getting, it's just that some people don't really see it that way. Soaking is supposed to be relaxed fun, you know.

High prices are seen in other products like Windows Vista. The "Basic" edition is just a gimmick; people know it has nothing, so it's justification to put down more money, thinking you'll get a better product. But that's off-topic.

And by the way, the Longshot seriously isn't that impressive. Size isn't all that counts; I think we've seen that in the case of the Monster XL. And probably with the HydroBlitz. Even if the HydroBlitz is powerful, that won't justify the apparent bulkiness and clumsiness.

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Post by mr. dude » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:53 pm

Quality doesn't make sense either. The FF certainly has a higher quality than the Overload for instance. And the situation with my sig, the EES Turbine was for $20, the CPS 2100 was only $10 more expensive, and the quality difference is greater for sure.

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Post by SilentGuy » Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:58 pm

mr. dude wrote:Quality doesn't make sense either. The FF certainly has a higher quality than the Overload for instance. And the situation with my sig, the EES Turbine was for $20, the CPS 2100 was only $10 more expensive, and the quality difference is greater for sure.
But that's performance...I was referring to build quality, workmanship, etc. These guns are for the most part rock solid.

And performance-wise, while we might think one gun pales compared to another, they're all decently powerful, at least compared to squirt guns.

Oh wait...this is a long conversation again... :D

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Post by HBWW » Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:31 pm

Meh, after doing a trigger repair on the FF, I can't agree that it's "rock solid". Upon opening, it looks like some of the plastic "plates" also have small cracks if I remember correctly. (though I never bothered to glue them) Another time, I had the FF packed in a backpack and when I returned from the trip, the reservoir got rather bent out of shape, but I'm not sure how I would fix that with any kind of pump since a seal is too hard to create, but that's for another topic.

I believe a good part of the pricing goes relative to the other soakers released in the year (not power as much as cost to produce and expected popularity, a good example is the oozinator vs ff), combined with cost, sales, and all those other factors.
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Post by isoaker » Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:06 am

...and extra 0.2142 cents... :goofy:

Size matters: it's not just a debate between stocking Monster XLs vs Defenders; consider how many CDs, cellphone covers, headphones, etc. could fit into the same space a single Monster XL box takes up. Smaller soakers for retailers leaves more space in the warehouse for other items and that can add up to HUGE profit differences.

As for soaker prices, Hasbro is pricier due to their overhead costs, but Buzz Bee Toys has been making the Blazer for awhile and it compares decently with soakers like the CPS1200, yet retails for $19.99 USD. WW Blazer vs CPS1200. Considering the increased cost of manufacturing over the years, it's quite refreshing to see Buzz Bee Toys trying to keep prices down while not sacrificing soaker performance.

With some luck, the success, performance, and cheaper pricing from Buzz Bee Toys will put pressure on Hasbro to make better soakers and sell them for lower prices.

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Post by Adrian » Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:11 pm

Show of hands here folks, who honestly thinks yet another petition/letterwriting campaign/boycott on Hasbro is going to finally convince them to make the toys .0001% of their demographic wants to buy?

Anybody?

Dux has said it best in the past, we've got three options: Do nothing, mod, make our own.

Let's not waste our precious time banging our heads on a brick wall for the eight hundredth repetition. Instead we should buy Buzz Bee products and let the market change Hasbro like our complaints won't. Asking them to bring the CPS2000mk1 back, or even CPS2700 is like the definition of insanity: Repeating the same action over and over and over and hoping for a different outcome.

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Post by marauder » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:54 pm

I agree with Isoaker, it's a business. I understand that you are trying to tell them that we would buy it, but they are basing their decisions off of sales statistics.

As for everyone's gripes about power and output I only have one thing to say. The flash flood nozzle on my flash flood (with the mesh removed) shoots further than every single on of my CPS soakers with the exception of my 2000.

My main complaint is not power and output, either buy a Flash Flood, or as Adrian said, mod. My one and only problem with supersoakers now is those triggers. It's been a problem since the second line of 4100s. Three of my friends had those guns, and on every single one of them the triggers broke. The same thing happened to mine. Also, all the blasters that feature the max D trigger/nozzle that I have bought broke on me with the sole exception of my liquidators. That's the only thing that really bothers me. You can have all the power you could ever want but if it breaks on you in combat it's no good to you at all.




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Post by mr. dude » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:13 pm

I do all these things. I mod, I'm working on a homemade, and I buy Buzz Bee guns. But it would be nice to see some sort of improvement in the line of soakers. My idea was that if they got enough complaints, something should change, because I know (and I tried to make it obvious that I know) that my complaint wasn't the first of its kind.
The reason I care about this is because I was unfortunate enough to have been an uber n00b when I first got into soakerdom (see my signature), so I have no real firepower in my arsenal, and unless I do serious and heavy modding, the soakers out there today won't get amazing results out of modding, just good results. My homemade is stalling so I have never tasted more power than a riot blast and a 5x.
I know I'm not the only one with that problem, so I thought this topic woud get more action going. Like I said, I tried to avoid making it seem like I came up with this idea, to avoid the response this topic eventually got :oo:
Well, that's all I have to say.

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Post by SilentGuy » Wed Feb 21, 2007 10:17 pm

Don't think we were flaming you, just pointing out the fact that it had been done before. No need to get defensive. :cool:

Probably not the best thread to discuss it in, but why is your homemade construction stalling? Just curious. :)

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Post by mr. dude » Fri Feb 23, 2007 3:50 pm

Exactly, I got on the defensive because I know it had been done before. Look at the title!
As for the homemade thing, don't you already know? Pressure rated PVC problems.




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Post by SilentGuy » Fri Feb 23, 2007 6:56 pm

Oh, sorry. A lot of people are making homemades at the moment though, gets a bit confusing. At least for me, as I appear to have memory-problems. Runs in half the family. ;)

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