Is it just me...?

[dellcar]

Is it just me, or has the Super Soaker industry gone to hel* in a handbasket? I mean, Larami's current line-up of Super Soakers just plain stinks and if you want a good, old soaker you have to pay at least $60 for one. I've also e-mailed Larami and gave them an idea to bring back the oldies, but no luck. A penny for your thoughts? ???

[Adrian]

Welcome to the boards! We hope you enjoy your stay.

Discussion of the advantages and disadvantages of the last few years of soakers is not new. We believe this year to be a step in the right direction though - 2 CPS guns, underpowered though they may be, is definitely a good sign. With any luck, WW and their soakers will exert some free-market pressure on Hasbro and we'll wind up with an arms race.

Adrian

[Aquarius]

Now more than ever it is obvious that there is insufficient market for large guns. I won't trace the "fall" from the legendary Monster XL. But rather, take for instance the CPS 4100. It retailed for $30 the year it was released, and was a substantial step-down relative to the previous season as far as being the largest Super Soaker produced that year. It didn't sell well at all. It didn't fare any better in 2004 either, when it retailed for $20 in most US markets. Now it's gone.

Enter the Triple Aggressor, which I believe debuted alongside the 4100 for a similar $20. Unlike its CPS shelf-mate, the TA survived at least until this season, again priced at $20. On top of it all, a physically much smaller blaster in the form of the Flash Flood is introduced for around $20.

Smaller guns evidently sell better that bigger ones at similar prices. Personally, I'd opt for the mondo-sized 4100 over anything produced this year or last. On the other hand, if smaller guns can be made that WILL sell for $20, profit margin is higher (assumed) AND they take up less space. More can fit on the shelf, on the truck, etc. More money made and saved, in other words.

I disagree that this is a good year. We've seen a steady decline in the overall size of blasters for years now and this summer is no different. Blasters are smaller than ever. A few are CPS based, you say? So what?

They're all like this:

Give me a CPS like this:

Or this: :bm2700:



Edited By Aquarius on 1117161672

[isoaker]

Firstly, welcome to the forums, dellcar!

Anyhow, from what I know, there are just some limits due to safety concerns imposed on the manufacturers in terms of what can or cannot be produced. Compound that with the fact that the large blasters, though they sell, just don't sell as many and cost more to make and you can see why the bigger cannons are gone. As Adrian noted, there's always hope for an arms race between Buzz Bee Toys and Hasbro, but on top of that, there are still safety and liability concerns that face the corporations. After various talks with various individuals in both companies, the limitations are very real and, well, restricting.

However, there is still hope, but there need to be a lot of changes on various levels for things to look more promising from a stock-blaster point of view. Modders and homemade builders are freer of constraints since, well, they build their own and liable solely to themselves for what they do. Manufacturers don't have the luxury, thus are forced to be much more conservative with what they do.

In the end, though, I still have faith in soaking power to come. I believe in at least blasters of CPS4100 power returning again in the not too distant future, but perhaps it may take a couple of years. As for the bigger cannons, well, there are just more restrictions preventing those from returning that is something that the manufacturers are bound by. Thus, don't lay blame on them for not being so quick to bring back the big cannons since even if they wanted to, there are more than just a couple of hoops to jump to get it back to us.

[ChrisReid]

I've also e-mailed Larami and gave them an idea to bring back the oldies, but no luck.

What do you mean, 'no luck'? There are TONS of old soaker rereleases this year. There are more XP and MaxD rereleases than new blasters.

[SSCBen]

I love how a thread like this is magically appears once every few weeks. Do you think some of us haven't noticed a drop in the quality since 1998? 2005 is a step in the right direction.

If you want something good before next year, try eBay or build you own water gun like I have.

[dellcar]

Thanks for the welcome admin, and ChrisReid, I meant something along the lines of remakes of something, like oh lets just say a CPS 1000 for instance.

[isoaker]

I'll have to admit that remakes, though can be fun, are NOT what I'd want to see. I enjoy new designs and concepts versus just a re-build of what was there before. I'd like to see similar powered soakers to the CPS1000 return, but just to see that mould get spit out again isn't necessarily a good thing overall. The Flash Flood is an example of a good, forward-thinking soaker. It may not be as big or as overall hard hitting as the CPS4100, but I'd happily even go toe-to-toe with a CPS1000/1200/1500 user with only my Flash Flood in hand and feel it were a relatively fairer fight. Sure the CPS-designated soakers carry more water than the Flash Flood, but the Flash Flood's also less than half their size yet with the ability to dump water faster on a closer target than even the 10x of the CPS1500, perhaps not in volume, but in total area coverage at once. If a larger version a Flash-Flood-type soaker were released, that's what I'd call progress (gimme a good 5x stream with ~40' average range with a fast optional riot-blast with ~20-25' range and a 3L/90oz reservoir on a one-piece soaker and I'll be very pleased). Some may still find such a soaker underpowered, but for the battles and melees I've mostly been involved in, it'd be perfect, but I'm digressing.

Remakes can be fun, but I'd rather push for newer, better designs.

[SharpObjects]

Why/how did hasbro buy out Larami? Larami seemed to have a good thing going.
Then we get soakers like the EES series and Max-D. The EES seems shameful. I want some more new CPS with maby a few thrown in a CPS classic series.

Ah well, that time has past.

~SO :blues:



Edited By SharpObjects on 1117207528

[isoaker]

Why/how did hasbro buy out Larami? Larami seemed to have a good thing going.

First thing, Hasbro bought Larami more or less during the time Larami went from Larami Ltd. to Larami Inc. (or is it the other way around? err...) At any rate, without Hasbro's help, some things like the CPS soakers may have taken longer to develop. There are certain grey areas of knowledge that remain, but Hasbro buying Larami wasn't all bad so don't overbash Hasbro.

At the same time, Buzz Bee Toys is pretty much made up of a good bulk of the original guys from Larami who moved on from Hasbro after the integration completed sometime ~2000 to 2001. Larami's name doesn't exist, but those guys ARE still around design soakers that many of us use today. However, times have also changed and even Buzz Bee Toys finds itself facing the same safety regulations and limitations that had led to Hasbro decreasing soaker power. On the other hand, as the guys from Buzz Bee Toys definitely interact here more than those from Hasbro, it gives us a unique opportunity to at least help mould one line. I'm hoping to one day also convince a Hasbro rep to join in the forums as well, but perhaps they're waiting to see how one of their current rivals fares here first.