For 2005 - ^

Discussions of all varieties of stock water guns and water blasters.
Crashdummy
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Post by Crashdummy » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:26 am

DoubleONothing wrote:AQUAPACK DEVASTATOR:
Outlast your competition!
530(?) oz Backpack water Capacity
I doubt the backpack can hold 530 oz of water. 4 gallons is too big of a leap for Hasbro.

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Adrian
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Post by Adrian » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:29 am

^^^You can even read the soaker names? *shocked* ...And here I always thought my eyesight was pretty good...

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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:02 pm

isoaker_com wrote:
There won't be a 98 CPS series anymore.

You're right. Can't be one of those for at least another 94 years in 2098. :goofy:

The reasons for the change in blaster power and output are numerous and toy manufacturers find themselves stuck with more restrictions. Giving up on them will definitely yield what is expected, I suppose making it all self-fulfilling. I'd rather not go that route. From what I can see, the 2005 blasters look much more promising than the EES series of 2003.

my point is that people start keeping their hopes up again this year for a Toy Line that technicaly no longer exists.

Uh, the toy line technically exists and only YOU have defined it as no longer existing. If fans gave up on the Transformer line during the darker era, there would have never been the new greats like the 20th Anniversary Optimus Prime or Unicron etc. Hasbro is capable, if inspired, to do some pretty amazing things. The hard part is the Super Soaker division has undergone many changes in the past few years and does appear to need to find its calling once again. However, seeing potential in the 2005 line, I still think it bodes well for the future.

"Only the best is just good enough for me!".

That statement is much too oversimplistic. What is THE BEST is very personal in opinion. Some would argue the best soaker is the CPS2000 since it had the most kick or the CPS3200 since it had good kick and a huge reservoir. I, personally, prefer the Monster (2001) since it had a decent kick, but felt more balanced to me. Others prefer blasters like the CPS1000 or CPS2100 since they're lighter and easier to sprint with while still having good power/performance. The water cannons of yester-year were great, but in terms of water wars, one hit later and it really didn't matter if one got hit again since one would have already been soaked. This doesn't mean I don't like the big cannons, but it does mean I also look for good powered blasters that offer more game time when used by many. IMO, there should be high performance blasters, but nothing too powerful that would make water fights into just OHK-type games. We definitely should not be complacent if the blasters are not meeting expectations and giving the manufacturers feedback on their products. However, turning our backs on them will NOT help either side.

The older gen CPS-soakers have a limited lifetime, thus one cannot rely on eBay forever. Homemade blasters may be more powerful than any store bought soaker, but it requires more time and skill than the average user is willing to spend for their water fights. To me, if more are to get interested in soaking, the standard store stock soaker needs to be good, thus the manufacturers needs to be pushed to make soakers to meet this desired level. However, to push 'em, we need to work with them, not against.

Of course, I don't expect my words to sway those already firm in their beliefs. People do as people believe and that's fine, too. I'll just do what I do each year: get the latest blasters when I can, test 'em out, and push up my thoughts and findings onto my corner of the web here at iSoaker.com as well as firing feedback straight to the sources that be.

:cool:

Hey, I ain't saying that people should abandon soakerdom. I'm just saying that people should give up the idea of seeing large CPS cannons again and also not be thankfull for technology that is pre-cps or even CPS. I know, its not an easy thing to do, but it will avoid disapointment.

I also should mention that to me the 98 soakers or CPS 2000 are technicaly lame aswell according to my standards now. What are my standards? I don't know, I retired soaking and I have not seen a good soaker yet. Or a soaker I would consider good now. To explain my situation, I'm a guy who who wants good steak, but got bored by past prime Sloppy Joes, yet only see now stores selling cheap Kraft Dinner.

As for the 20th Aneversary Optimus Prime, its a kick-ass Transformer. And I should also mention that 95% of every good transformers model is designed by Takara, and not Hasbro. Hasbro is just distributing a lamer US version of what Takara bring out. The Hasbro 20th Aneversary Optimus Prime has shorter smoke staks and misses the carboard trailer. To TF collectors, who are the ones who this Transformer is made for, its a major slap in the face. Also the Hasbro ALTERNATORS Transformers line is the Plastic version of the Diecast Takara version BINALTECH. Hasbro goes for cheap production, while Takara goes for expensive quality.

Like I always said, if Takara would design soakers, people would use models we would not even comprehend at this point.
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Post by Shadowstrike Prime » Mon Dec 20, 2004 2:40 pm

"As for the 20th Aneversary Optimus Prime, its a kick-ass Transformer. And I should also mention that 95% of every good transformers model is designed by Takara,"


The engineering of the toys is done by Takara, the actual design is done by Hasbro. Hasbro plays a very important role in the TF design process.

"The Hasbro 20th Aneversary Optimus Prime has shorter smoke staks and misses the carboard trailer. To TF collectors, who are the ones who this Transformer is made for, its a major slap in the face."


The shorter stacks has nothing to do with Hasbro; North American safety restrictions strike once again. If they could have kept the longer stacks, they certainly would have. As for the cardboard trailer... it's just a cardboard trailer. The 20th Anniversary Prime we recived was not a slap in the face; if we could have half the effort that Hasbro/Takara put into that toy get put into soaker design, we'd be lucky as all hell.

"Also the Hasbro ALTERNATORS Transformers line is the Plastic version of the Diecast Takara version BINALTECH. Hasbro goes for cheap production, while Takara goes for expensive quality."


That's because the toy market in Japan is far more lucrative than it is here in North America. Takara can afford to make the Binaltechs die-cast because people there can afford to buy them. If Hasbro made the Alternators die-cast, they'd never sell because they'd cost 50-60 bucks a pop.

Hasbro does it's best with what it's got in this market, and given that the choice was between making the Alternators plastic or NOT SELLING THEM AT ALL, I'd say they made the right choice.

Now it's clear that with the 2005 line they're at least making an *attempt* to appeal to the soaker fanbase; let's not lose sight of that, people.
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Post by isoaker » Mon Dec 20, 2004 4:13 pm

I'm just saying that people should give up the idea of seeing large CPS cannons again and also not be thankfull for technology that is pre-cps or even CPS.

That statement doesn't make sense to me. How can one both give up on the idea of seeing large CPS cannons again while, at the same time, not just being thankful to the pre-CPS tech?

Sure things seem to have been a little backwards in the past few years, but if things begin to improve, I'm all for giving credit to where I think credit is due. The 2005 line may seem a far cry from what things were like in 1996 or 1998, but if things do appear to be going back in the right direction after taking an odd turn for awhile, I'd do everything I can to help push it along and, perhaps, one day, get closer to our ideals.

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Post by NiborDude » Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:02 pm

What if they come up with technology that's better than CPS?

Hasbro and the Super Soaker line is going through its teen years. Its depressed, really lazy, and sleeps all the time. But they'll get back on track, making better soakers eventually. Just because something is going in a bad direction, doesn't mean it can't be turned around and start going back the better direction. :goofy:




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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Mon Dec 20, 2004 9:39 pm

Shadowstrike Prime wrote:
"As for the 20th Aneversary Optimus Prime, its a kick-ass Transformer. And I should also mention that 95% of every good transformers model is designed by Takara,"


The engineering of the toys is done by Takara, the actual design is done by Hasbro. Hasbro plays a very important role in the TF design process.

"The Hasbro 20th Aneversary Optimus Prime has shorter smoke staks and misses the carboard trailer. To TF collectors, who are the ones who this Transformer is made for, its a major slap in the face."


The shorter stacks has nothing to do with Hasbro; North American safety restrictions strike once again. If they could have kept the longer stacks, they certainly would have. As for the cardboard trailer... it's just a cardboard trailer. The 20th Anniversary Prime we recived was not a slap in the face; if we could have half the effort that Hasbro/Takara put into that toy get put into soaker design, we'd be lucky as all hell.

"Also the Hasbro ALTERNATORS Transformers line is the Plastic version of the Diecast Takara version BINALTECH. Hasbro goes for cheap production, while Takara goes for expensive quality."


That's because the toy market in Japan is far more lucrative than it is here in North America. Takara can afford to make the Binaltechs die-cast because people there can afford to buy them. If Hasbro made the Alternators die-cast, they'd never sell because they'd cost 50-60 bucks a pop.

Hasbro does it's best with what it's got in this market, and given that the choice was between making the Alternators plastic or NOT SELLING THEM AT ALL, I'd say they made the right choice.

Now it's clear that with the 2005 line they're at least making an *attempt* to appeal to the soaker fanbase; let's not lose sight of that, people.
Hasbro is making the designs? In that case it sure is not the Super Soaker devision.
That statement doesn't make sense to me. How can one both give up on the idea of seeing large CPS cannons again while, at the same time, not just being thankful to the pre-CPS tech?


Well, not buying their stuff would be a way to show it. It would show acceptance of never seeing anything groundbreaking, and it would show disatisfaction of pre-CPS or conventional CPS. What increases the pressure would the rubber. So they would not even have to create new technology, but just use better rubber and call it "CPS+" or something. I know there are certain restrictions, but I'm sure Super Soaker is not that blameless in that situation.

Like I said, its tricky to defend or promote soakers that are not even made yet, and probbaly will never be made in retail.
But there is that nice saying that goes:"If you don't like it, don't buy it." And for some reason, many people in soakerdom tend to buy or compliment soakers they don't really want, just in hope the ones they do like will come in the near future. Am I the only one who finds some humor in that?
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Post by isoaker » Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:53 pm

In that case, it's simple. For me, I buy soakers I want even when others don't want 'em. For those who don't like a soaker, definitely don't buy what you don't like. To each their own. However, I still feel credit should be given where it's due if the direction of development appears right. I prefer development through positive reinforcement, not through punishment, but that's just my style.

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Post by NiborDude » Mon Dec 20, 2004 11:20 pm

Like I said, its tricky to defend or promote soakers that are not even made yet, and probbaly will never be made in retail.
But there is that nice saying that goes:"If you don't like it, don't buy it." And for some reason, many people in soakerdom tend to buy or compliment soakers they don't really want, just in hope the ones they do like will come in the near future. Am I the only one who finds some humor in that?


I don't support it. All im saying is that it may be a step in the right direction. It's sad how people can turn their backs on something.
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Post by Falcon » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:25 pm

isoaker_com wrote:For those who've now had longer experience times with the 2005 WW Aqua-Master lines, have any of your opinions on the line changed after use?
To be quite blunt, I wouldn't even try one of them in a water war. Although Buzz Bee Toys definitely shows potential, the Argon, Krypton and Xenon are just too unreliable. The first time I try to pump my Krypton after I haven't used it for a week or so, I have to jam it between my knees and tug at the pump with both arms as hard as I can for about 30 seconds before it comes loose. I'm serious, it's that hard to pump. The largest nozzle has a shot time of about 3/4 of a second and a range of about 7 metres and it's only about 7x.

Also, the Aqua master Pre-Charger line just doesn't feel as comfortable to use as a CPS. Throughout the 3/4 of a second shot time you get, the pressure varies quite a bit and the stream shifts from side to side a lot.

The Argon and Xenon could be potential scouting weapons, but then again I'd prefer a Max-D 2000 or Liquidator, both of which have better stream integrity, larger nozzle, longer shot time and better overall reliability.

So overall, I still think that Buzz Bee Toys shows potential, but these soakers need a lot more work. They should have just stuck with the conventional pumping system.

The Blazer sounds ok, so I think I'll just stick with that.

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Post by FlameKnight » Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:28 am

Alright, I'm mighty angry. New supersoakers suck. Even if it is shitty, I just want a supersoaker without a gimmick. The tripple shot could be OK, though I could only see myself ever using regular mode. And I don't want to freaking go with another watergun company, I love my old supersoakers so...

What the crap is hasbro doing with supersoakers? I've heard about the crapness of the US already, but I live in Australia, and don't really give much of a crap. I don't even think that this year's soakers were brought to Australia (though apparently we weren't missing out on anything good). And if these soakers are all that hasbro plans to bring out, then that just ruins many summers to come. Good one hasbro, you really screwed up.

(now, it's 2:30 AM, I'm typing this from a laptop on my bed (ah, I love wireless internet so...), and I've had too much caffeine, so I hope you'll forgive me if I screwed up some stuuff. Goodnight.)

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Post by isoaker » Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:47 am

I just want a supersoaker without a gimmick.

What do you define as a soaker without a gimmick?

The Liquidator is a pretty standard soaker and the Triple Shot and Aqua Pack Devastator look like they'll do their intended job and don't have any added lights or sound effects. I have no idea how the 2005 soakers will behave, but I don't consider them at all gimmicky (with, perhaps, the exception of the Arctic Shock with its icy blast thing going... I like the look of it, though). If you were only referring to the Star Wars Wookie one, well, that isn't a typical Super Soaker so it should not be considered as such... it's an extension to the product line.

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Post by trekkie00 » Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:30 am

With that Arctic Shock, the water would probably flow through the ice cube section. It might actually be possible to XPS it, by putting a bike inner tube into the container.

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Post by Crashdummy » Thu Dec 23, 2004 11:42 am

trekkie00 wrote:With that Arctic Shock, the water would probably flow through the ice cube section. It might actually be possible to XPS it, by putting a bike inner tube into the container.
With a little bit of work I think someone could even get the arctic shock's ice cube holder to be an addition to the resivoir. That would be cool although it might not be that much of a gain in capacity.

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Post by Iceman » Thu Dec 23, 2004 3:43 pm

Since when do waterguns hold ice? ??? .Anyways the pic is too small. Even if YOU yourself can read it, the information is not credible until it is released by Hasbro. From the looks of things, the blasters are a definate improvement over last year. I as well highly doubt that the backpack cannon will hold 530 ounces, thats just a little bit more water than two Monster XL's combined. Of course I could be wrong. From past records, no stock soaker has ever gotten that high.



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Post by Crashdummy » Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:07 pm

I just guessed. When I thought icey core the first thing I thought was ice cubes. :goofy: Now that I come to think of it, it could easily just hold little containers/freezer packs that Hasbro supplies for the gun if that is their freezing system. Information hasn't been given form Hasbro obviously but this looks rather intriguing if I say so myself.

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Post by Adrian » Thu Dec 23, 2004 6:58 pm

For the record, there was a pump action soaker back in the early 90s/late 80s, about the size of an XP 50 called something like the "Ice Shot." It had a clear rectangular tank that you were supposed to fill with ice cubes and water.

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Post by DX » Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:37 pm

I highly doubt that any of the new guns, including the Water Warriors line, will meet the "50 ft. Standard." Obviously this is too lofty a range for any new line to achieve anytime soon. As a somewhat-leading modder exploring and testing the limits of range even 50ft. has become less impressive to me. Anyone can reach 50. Very few people have even seen a regular modded water gun that can shoot 65. So due to this I'm used to having high range as well as at least 5x output. WW has made respectable sized nozzles and that is a big step in the right direction. I think that each year the WW line will keep getting better. I would buy WW guns when they get "good" enough. But right now it's back to the tech lab and the pvc as I'm not buying any 2005 guns from the "Elite" Soakertag Line.
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Post by NiborDude » Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:08 pm

Duxburian you fool! I really don't think ANY gun will ever again shoot 50+ feet. The guns that you have are either modded or an extremely good CPS. And that standard is yours and yours only. Just because a gun can't shoot that far doesn't mean it's not good. The gun is only as good as its user. Range is a great thing, but right now, THAT'S ALL YOU THINK ABOUT! It gets really annoying when people keep whining how bad the new soakers are. SUCK IT UP!

As for your 65 foot shooting 21K, you have not tested it yet. So you cant really call it any type of range until you fix your gun and see how far it really goes. Power obsessed people lose sight of the real meaning of soakers. I love to get huge long range. But thats not all that I look for. :goofy:
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Post by Field Marshal Yang » Thu Dec 23, 2004 10:17 pm

Amazing how these images came up... I have hopes that the Aquapack Hasbro's rolling out is reminiscent of the CPS 3000/3200 but according to some soem stats on the box it's a lot smaller.
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