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1 Hit Scores Rules

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 11:22 am
by marauder
For those who have played before, how does this work? Do people have to temporarily freeze or go respawn after they are hit? I'm assuming that we play for a set period of time and then the team with the most kills at the end of that time period wins. If we are playing to a set score I do not see how that could possibly work, since then everyone, everywhere must always be aware of the current score, and I don't see how that's possible.

I am most interested to play this game - theoretically - but practically this is the game that I am least interested in playing. Here are my concerns, hopefully we can work them out.

Scoring: I think it will be difficult to keep up with how many hits/scores you make.
First of all, there is the possibility that people forget how many kills they make.
Second of all, there is the possibility that people exaggerate the amount of kills they make.
Third, if you do not have to freeze or go back to a re-spawn zone when you are hit, multiple hits can be made in mere seconds, which makes it much much more difficult to keep track of hits/scores.

Gameplay is altered This system highly favors kamikaze type action. This can be good, like a gambit in a game of chess, but it can also be very bad. Allow me to elaborate. I worked at Laser Quest laser tag and arcade for 2 years. We may be playing with waterguns, but at the core the mechanics of the games are very similar. You get points for "tagging" an opposing player, and (I assume) you are temporarily down after you get hit.

At LQ the best players and teams would play aggressive, and would often go on suicide like missions. You send 2 of your best players out against an opposing squad of 5. Your 2 guys may get hit, but they will take out 5 guys in the process, thus accruing more points for your team. It flips traditional tactics on its head. The teams and players that won were ALWAYS the ones that fought aggressively outnumbered. This is even more true with waterguns where you can use an entire stream or multiple quick bursts (much faster than laser tag) to "tag" or take out multiple opponents. Lastly, if you are not temporarily frozen or forced to go to a respawn location then my last point is even more important. One person could attack an enemy group of 5 and would get many many more points than they would, simply due the number of targets available.

These are my concerns. I do have a few ideas to remedy at least some of the problems I identified.

1) When you get hit you have to go back to a respawn point. This relies on the honor system, but I trust you guys, and I hope I can trust the people you bring.
2) Each person gets X # of flags made from engineering tape. One team will have 1 color, the other team will have the other. When you get hit you must remove one of the flags in the sight of the person that shot you. At the end of the battle everyone counts the number of flags they are missing and thus counts how many points the opposing team has made.

Proposition 2 is not without its flaws. In the heat of battle, the person who made the hit will most likely still be fighting and cannot take his eyes off his still in play opponents in order to make sure the person he just tagged is not cheating (ie keeping the flag on). Also, we would have to walk around the battle field after the battle and pick up all the flags dropped. You could remove a flag when you are hit, and then carry it to a respawn point and drop it there, but that ups the risk of cheating because who is to say that a person won't put the flag back on at the respawn point, thus denying their enemy of deserved points. Lastly, brightly colored flags are counterproductive to those players who wish to rely on camo.

Re: 1 Hit Scores Rules

Posted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:05 pm
by atvan
DX had you respawn behind the team's lines and away from the conflict. If you don't play with jerks, then you should have no problems with cheating. The outnumberd tactics can be countered, though difficult.

How did your duel with DX go?

Re: 1 Hit Scores Rules

Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:00 pm
by DX
There are several versions of OHS so I can't speak for a whole gametype. In Ridgewood's "standard/unlimited" version, the game was played for a set time limit. The team with the most kills/points would win.

Keeping track of the score can be easier or more difficult depending on the rules used and how the players treat the battle. Unlimited had a very "sporty" feel because of the way we did the scoring. Individual players could either track their own kills, or the game score. Captains only were concerned with keeping the game score. Radios were used to communicate score changes when squads split and the such. Originally, captains had the right to call time out and freeze gameplay to settle the score and to make sure both teams knew what it was. That later expanded to anyone calling timeout if a dispute arose. Shouting the score is less effective with a higher number of participants.

Disputes were settled in time out. Same-time hits gave the affected players a choice: All dead, all alive, or duel on the spot to decide (with very constricted space). The score had to be agreed upon before leaving time out.

For respawning we required a dead player to wait 2 minutes. Gun held in the air indicates a dead player. They had to spawn behind at least one live teammate, away and out of water gun range from any fighting going on. Time was usually kept on a watch and they had to yell "clear" like in Nerf before being considered alive.

OHS does have different tactics than OHK and soakfests. There is a much wider selection to choose from, and there are some non-intuitive dynamics made possible. Outnumbered Offense can be effective and the SSC article makes it sound decisive. However, outnumbered offense is only as good as the players utilizing it. I never got around to posting Counter Theory, which states that every tactic has at least one effective counter. You may have to be creative in finding the weakness, but there is always a weakness. Outnumbered offense has several. This, as you've pointed out, is an aggressive, fast-moving style. Rushing players in that offense are best countered the same way you'd counter any player with speed. Well-executed ambushes, using your larger numbers to create more/better covered ones, can shut that offense down.

You can use speed against speed. Send your best fighters out to make the first contact or use them to cover your more vulnerable players, using their speed to deter easy shots. Saving is just as important as killing in OHS games. OHS differs from OHK lives in that deadbeats hurt the whole team. Them getting out in OHK doesn't necessarily hurt an elite squad, but in OHS, all points carry equal weight. You really have a team and it's not all about shooting to get the other side, it's a more complex shooting dynamic. You need to stop them from getting points. The balance of which is more important - saving or killing - changes as time and score change. You also don't get the giant momentum swing that OHK provides when one team starts to lose players. Instead, momentum will shift back and forth like it does in sports, as the score changes.

Outnumbered offense is also only as good as your guns. If 2 take on 5, there is no gaurantee that they'll actually get at least 2 to break even. Kamikaze style rushing, as I learned at one of the Goffle wars, can get you killed with nothing to show for it. Range, output, wind, dodging, blocking, etc come into play. Outnumbered offense has to be played smartly, it's not like soakfest rushing.

Of course, at the community war, the sides will be more equal, so I wouldn't be very concerned. Outnumbered offense has a steep, almost geometric curve - it is least effective when the numbers are close to equal and only gets good as the disparity grows enormous.

The best strategy against it is simply to know how to use the larger side better than the smaller side knows how to use the smaller side. The tactics may be a tougher call, but the strategy is very simple.

OHS was intended for mature players who wanted a more sporty, yet still hardcore, feel to water wars. It has few cheating safeguards or specified rules (it defaults to common sense) because those were not concerns for the players using it. They can be added, but it dilutes the simplicity of the game family.

Re: 1 Hit Scores Rules

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:27 am
by atvan
Good explanation. I had a OHS FFA on wednesday, and the majority of it was fought in open areas. This caused a score of 8-6-2 in 30 min.the hardest part was reacting to getting hit. That took a second, as you were usually shooting back. We had a step back 5 sec. respawn, which was enough to prevent respawn kills in the open area.

Re: 1 Hit Scores Rules

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:36 pm
by marauder
atvan wrote:Good explanation. I had a OHS FFA on wednesday, and the majority of it was fought in open areas. This caused a score of 8-6-2 in 30 min.the hardest part was reacting to getting hit. That took a second, as you were usually shooting back. We had a step back 5 sec. respawn, which was enough to prevent respawn kills in the open area.
Not trying to sound rude, but you only had 16 hits among the 3 of you in 30 minutes?

Re: 1 Hit Scores Rules

Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:16 pm
by atvan
There was at least 5 minutes of me standing alone waiting for an ambush, and more time where my brother was hiding, and 10+ minutes when my dad and I didn't really want to engage beacause there was a good chance my brother could ambush us the second we were distracted.