New way to begin a war - Hot Landing-Zone

[WaterWolf]

I recently though this up after playing the "Silent Cartographer" mission in Halo.
This is a new way to start a CTF, Soakfest or 1HK game.

Before the game starts, all terms, rules and pre-game preparations have been finished. Both teams have good knowledge of the battle ground and boundaries set for the game.

The "Defender" team arrives about an hour early and prepares for war. The "Attacking" team arrives an hour after the "Defender" team. All of the "Attacking" teams cars (or whatever transports are being used) must be moving together as one large group of vehicles (Vans would be best because they can carry large amounts of troops and equipment, while being completely water proof).

The attackers caravan of APCs, (Armored Personnel Carrier a.k.a: Vans) drive to the battle ground, then drop their payload of troops and equipment where ever is directed by that teams general. The defenders may open fire on the attackers the moment that the vehicles are in sight. This means that great strategical importance is put on both generals to decide where to place defenses (For the Defenders) and where to drop troops (For the Attackers).

The Attackers may also drop many separate groups of troops wherever they want, even out side of the battles boundaries. This way, the attackers could drop a small group of commandos in one spot with their main attack force in another. This also mean that the defenders have to be extremely vigilant in the early part of the game, or risk being attacked from any direction by a special forces squad from their opposing team.

The attackers must also be especially careful where to drop their main force. Other wise they may end up pinned down and forced to retreat back into their Transports, before they could even set up a beach-head. If this happens, the general must decide a different spot to drop the main force, or wether to spit up into smaller groups, ect, ect.

Lets say the attackers have established a beach-head or captured a base to use as their staging point, from here the game continues as a normal CTF, SoakFest or 1HK game, until the battle is finished

So, what do people have to say?
I think that this would make for an exciting and tactical way to start the wars.



Edited By WaterWolf on 1157226036

[SilentGuy]

Seems a bit overzealous to me...but it's definitely interesting and feasible. I look forward to seeing if anybody does it!

The problem is that the fight doesn't seem too balanced--at least, not until you specify objectives, advantages, disadvantages, and all that. Okay, so one team gets an extra hour, and the other comes after that...

How significant are the vehicles? Should there be an objective such as a position that the attackers have to capture? That would be more interesting and balanced (if not even), IMO.

It would be really cool if an entire vehicle could be taken out if hit by a water balloon--either a "grenade" or a "rocket" from a WBL. Normally, it would be nice to let people get hit by streams if a window is down and they're shooting out, but then the inside of the vehicle would get hit...

Oh, and it's Armored Personnel Carrier, not Transport. :;):

[WaterWolf]

The idea of this is that its not a kind game of its self, just a new way to start them. Its really just an add-on for CTF type games or others.

You don't really need to have vehicles I suppose, you could do this starting on foot and walking to the war area. I just thought using cars (or similar) would make it easier.

Part of the game is that the vehicles are a place where the attackers can fall back to at the start of the game, then regroup and reorganize without fear of attack. But once the "Attackers" have a solid beach-head or base, then the cars should probably be made inaccessible and the game continues from there like any normal one.
But if you wanted, I suppose you could make vehicles "Destructible". This "add-on" can be very flexible.

Noted and edited.

[Rook]

We have a river nearby that's very wooded, and close to a road. This would work perfectly in an area like this.

It's a cool idea, but I don't see it getting big.

[WaterWolf]

Why don't you think It could get big? And what do you think of as "Big"?

[Rook]

I just don't see it becoming a major game type (i.e. 1HK or something) that a lot if people would do. I mean, I'd do it if I had the opportunity, I'm close to a good place for it, but some people aren't.

I'm not trying to be negative or anything, I think it's a great concept. Come to think of it, it's really just siege with cars. So it might happen, you never know.

[SilentGuy]

If anything would stop this from being popular, it would be the fact that you need cars. That would imply a huge battle, and you'd have to be able to spare team members who are old enough to drive (and those would probably be the strongest and fastest people anyway due to their age), and well...overall, it would require a ton of planning and resources.

It would be neat if it could be pulled off of course, but not everybody is able to do it. This defeats the purpose of appealing to the average Joe who is just dabbling into water warfare--you might as well plunge straight into the depths and pull out several WBLs if you're going for the gusto.

[WaterWolf]

@Rook: I keep telling people, this is not a game type of its own, but an add on to any other kind of team game.
Please stop referring to it as such!

@SilentGuy: I was thinking that for people who can't drive, that they could get their parents as the transports, which they probably normally do anyways.
The drivers don't have to stay in the cars and just act as transport, they can do just as much fighting as anybody-els.
I don't see why it would take more planning or resources than a normal fight. You just have to do everything in advance instead of deciding on stuff like rules when you meet the enemy team at the battle field. The only thing that would need a little bit more planning, is where to drop troops and that wouldn't take "A ton of planning and resources" as you said above.



Edited By WaterWolf on 1157283057

[SilentGuy]

Sorry, but it was just a bit of constructive criticism. I'm just warning you that if you want a convoy of vehicles, you'll need a lot of people...very few wars include so many members per team. If parents are willing to help out then that's great--and that would be really feasible if they just drop off the attackers and then go off to work or whatever.

Do you have any plans to do this? It sounds kinda cool at least, assuming you can work out the details such as the mission objectives. Also, that would prevent the defenders from having to sit on their butts for an hour--I don't see what else they could do that would actually help. A quick strike from the attackers would put any set defenses to shame, IMO.

[WaterWolf]

Something to solve the problem of to many vehicles and thus, too many drivers would be to have as many of the attackers, "Commute" in just one or two vehicles. This would greatly simplify things.

I'm thinking of possibly trying this idea out next year, since this years season is coming to an end and my team has only just gotten off the ground.
As for the defenders having to "Sit on their buts for an hour", an hour was just an example time and could be much shorter. But the reason for having defenders arrive a little bit early, is so that they can: Arrive, prep weapons, set up sentries to watch for the cars and get dug in at the best and most likely LZs (Landing Zones).

This is good, we're ironing out the wrinkles in the plan. If it turns into something really good, I'll save the ideas, then reopen it next year.

[SilentGuy]

In fact, I don't see why this exactly has to be an add-on...it would work very well as an actual game type if, as you said, all the wrinkles are ironed out.

What if the battle took place in a park or somewhere, and the vehicles could drive through it? That would make for a good balance: the defenders would have a prepared defense, while the attackers would have increased mobility. Spawn points would be the vehicles for the attackers and bases for the defenders.

From there, there are actually a lot of options. For example, even if the vehicles couldn't go in all the way, they could try to drop off people at the closest point to a flag or something that the attackers had to capture. Also, remember that the defenders should be using lots of bases for supplies and all, instead of just staying inside--they should take the offensive.

[Rook]

You would have to be very careful with shooting vehicles. Firstly, they may not be able to see if their windshield is covered in water, and secondly, the cops might try to arrest you. :blues:

[forestfighter7]

I think that it sounds like a cool idea. It would be possible where I fight, so perhaps I will try it. The only thing I would not think would work would be the shooting of vehicles. None of the people I fight with are old enough to drive, and not alot of parents would offer to have their car shot at. In all, I definetly like the idea,It just might need some fine-tuning .

[SilentGuy]

Remember, all you're doing is shooting a water balloon. If WBLs don't kill people, then I don't think they could do much to a car. A windshield covered in water from a balloon is nothing compared to a heavy rainstorm at night, and I don't think people would worry about their car being shot. However, as Rook said, the legality might be a concern, but I'm not sure about that.

[forestfighter7]

True, but not many parents would like to get their car shot at with heavy artillary, plus I fight in a suburban setting where if you missed with a WBL you could break someones window . Although, water ballons thrown by hand would be fine with the parents in my team(I hope ! ).



Edited By forestfighter7 on 1157307439

[SilentGuy]

What I'm saying is that there's no way fighting in a water war could break a window. I don't know about point-blank range and at high pressure, but with distance and common sense, nothing could go wrong (I think). I would even demonstrate to show the parents.

Also, to my knowledge, car windows are far stronger than house windows. Even the plating probably wouldn't get dented by a balloon.

But yes, if you're up close, it does make far more sense to just throw the water balloons. It's far less hassle, safer, quicker and allows for a greater rate of fire, and just way more practical. Also, it's probably at least a bit more realistic...



Edited By SilentGuy on 1157309829

[Rook]

You would need a way to know if a transport is "destroyed" or not. Perhaps you could tape paper towels to it, if one is obliterated, the transport is destroyed.

[WaterWolf]

Wow, lots of comments since I last checked.

I think that Rooks idea of a paper towel would be good for vehicle "Destruction". But since vehicles should have more "Armor" than infantry, I think that you should have to completely soak something more like a beach towel.
One big problem with the idea of distractible vehicles is, how does the driver know when the vehicle is "Destroyed"?
They can't exactly keep sticking their heads out to check the dryness of their towel armor.
If you were doing a water-war with vehicles that could be "Destroyed", I think that you would be hard pressed to find volunteer parents.
Unless they were like the dad of three of the people on my team. He really gets into the wars and is now helping his kids with building a WBL after being awed by mine at their last visit.

I doubt this idea will be tested this year, but if the interest I'm getting for it keeps up, I definitely think we could see some test of it early next summer.



Edited By WaterWolf on 1157336313

[SilentGuy]

I was assuming it would be at least fairly obvious when you get hit by a water balloon--at least if there are plenty of people inside (and if there are only like two people per vehicle, that's a waste of half your troops).

The cool thing about not using toilet paper or paper towels is that there's still a difference between a hit from a water balloon and a hit from a stream. The water balloons are grenades that explode upon impact (what else would you use against vehicles :p ) and the WBL balloons are rockets, but the streams are only like bullets. Bullets do very little damage against armored vehicles, and if you're window is down, then that's your problem.

[DX]

While most of my team is driving age, we probably couldn't do this since a launcher at close range could probably break a window. You could figure it out mathematically though. Get the mass of the balloon, the distance from the car, the amount of force the window can take, and the amount of force the balloon has when traveling at about 140 MPH [Douchenator speed at ~65 PSI]. Perhaps it wouldn't at 65, but what about higher PSI such as 100 or 120? And with smaller balloons?

Then again, firing from far away would ensure intact windows, but accuracy is horrible if you're trying to hit a moving target from 500ft away. A stationary target is already hard to hit from that distance.

Don't get me wrong, this gametype sounds like a load of fun, but you won't see me contributing a car. :p

Oh, and it would be really easy to tell if the car has been hit, even if you are the driver. Streams make a small bang, thrown balloons make a large bang, fired balloons make a HUGE bang. :laugh:



Edited By Duxburian on 1157338220