Homemade Concepts thread

Guides and discussions about building water blasters and other water warfare devices such as water balloon launchers.
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Homemade Concepts thread

Post by the oncoming storm » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:28 am

Rather than have someone make a new thread for every new homemade concept they make here's a permanent one.


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A 3' sponge sword, (a sponge can get you pretty wet) simply and cool, melee weapons are currently unseen in water fights, just remember to carry a water bottle or somthing with you to re soak the "blade" when it drys out.
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Re: Consepts thread

Post by DX » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:31 am

Melee is lame in a shooting game, imo. That said, a water bottle, bucket, or similar vessel are very effective for close range melee attacks, better than a Nerf style sword.
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Re: Consepts thread

Post by the oncoming storm » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:50 am

I tried soaking myself with a sponge earlier today and made some fist sized "hits" on my shirt without needing to much force, a sword would do even more soakage and could be used like a lightsaber to block shots.
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Re: Consepts thread

Post by DX » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:56 am

How about this, next war we are both able to attend, you use a sword and I'll use a bucket and we'll see who gets wetter...
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Re: Consepts thread

Post by the oncoming storm » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:26 am

buckets are slow, (not much faster than a walking pace at best) I can make you waste your water and then soak away, or how about you try fighting off a mob of blasters (at least 4 people) with a bucket ?
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Re: Consepts thread

Post by DX » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:44 am

Very few players can make me waste water, in very few situations. I am extremely patient. Because a sword has very limited range (and a bucket, while most effective up close, can send its contents over 30ft), the bucket user does not need to operate quickly. The sword user must get in close and a sponge has poor structural integrity, at 3 ft it must have a more solid core, robbing you of surface area to hold more water, so it will dry out faster. In a soakfest, you can just take a sword hit or two while waiting for that perfect opportunity to use the bucket. And then, you don't use the whole bucket, only part. When it's out, you can either run away to refill, take hits that you don't need to care about while refilling it, or just stand there and use the empty bucket to block sword swipes until the sword becomes too dry. I don't see how the sword wins this.

I would not take either item against blasters. Melee is for soakfests.
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Re: Consepts thread

Post by SEAL » Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:17 am

When it comes to close-quarters, nothing beats point-blanking someone with a 2000.

Here's my consept.
Image

A heavy-cannon CPH with the unique setup of having the water enter the rear of the LRT/whatever, and exiting the front. In order to do this, I would have to somehow make the pipe in the rear move back and forth to allow the LRT to expand lengthways. Quite a difficult engineering challenge, which I don't have to worry about because I don't have any spare money to build the damn thing!
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Re: Consepts thread

Post by Andrew » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:07 pm

A longer one of these maybe?

Pretty much designed for the job!

Good old fashioned telescoping brass is another option.

Both are good for laminar flow from PC to nozzle, but unfortunately come with a problem. As the PC contracts, the joint expands and fills with water, rather than forcing all of the water forwards. The only way to avoid this is to install the second check valve inside/on the end of the moving piece attached to the LRT.
Last edited by Andrew on Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Concepts thread

Post by marauder » Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:29 pm

Foam swords would be cool in pool wars. It's typical for people to fight with foam noodles anyway. Soaked foam would be better. Buckets would be much more suitable for regular battles.
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Re: Concepts thread

Post by soakinader » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:24 am

@SEAL, while I don't quite understand the purpose of this setup, it really isn't that much of an engineering challenge. All you would need is a piece of flexible hose leading up to the back of the LRT and room for it to bend. Heck, LRT doesn't even really need to expand lengthwise.
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Re: Concepts thread

Post by Andrew » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:11 am

Yes, it doesn't need to expand lengthways to push water out the nozzle, but you'll reduce the effective PC capacity and the performance of the blaster a lot. Even though LRT expands widthways more than it expands lengthways, you lose the expansion parallel to the path of the flow if you don't let it expand lengthways. This is arguably what makes cylindrical CPS better than spherical CPS, as there is more force directed down towards the nozzle. As LRT expands in diameter before it expands in length, it stands to reason that it takes less pressure to expand widthways than lengthways. Therefore you will reach a higher operating pressure by filling it enough to stretch lengthways. Also, if it's fixed at both ends, the tubing will still try to expand, and may damage it.

As for flexible hose, it's not a bad idea, you'll just need some that won't kink when the LRT expands to 2-3 times it's length. You can get the stuff though.

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Re: Concepts thread

Post by SEAL » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:35 am

I don't really like the idea of flexible hose; I don't even see how it would work. It wouldn't bend if the LRT was pushing on it from the end, would it?

Thanks for the advice, but this will probably remain a concept until I get a car and have a good amount of spare money. I spent over $50 on my APH, and I don't have many leftover parts to use on the CPH.
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Re: Concepts thread

Post by HBWW » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:50 pm

Yes, LRT does need to expand in every direction it can, or the uneven stress exerted will cause it to rupture sooner.
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Re: Concepts thread

Post by Briguy52 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:21 pm

Not really a 'concept' but more of a basic APH question (or two):

1. In CA99's 'Developing an APH' thread, one of the main concerns was minimizing dead space by relocating the check valves in a SS 300 style fashion. However, looking at my XP 70, it seems that Larami positioned a check valve directly after the pump. If I were to do something similar (see picture below) would that be problematic? Or would the only downside be that the pump would end up extending a little bit farther out from the body of the water gun?

2. Has anyone had any success with removable pressure chambers (in order to experiment with different PC volumes)? Would it be as simple as adding in a threaded coupler between the T and the bushings/couplers going up to the wider diameter PC?

Image

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Re: Concepts thread

Post by the oncoming storm » Tue Jul 16, 2013 2:35 pm

First question, Your idea won't work because it will not let water into the pump in the first place. second question, I don't think so.
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Re: Concepts thread

Post by Andrew » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:20 pm

Like storm said, the current layout won't work, the check valve needs to be on the other exit from the tee.

There is no reason why removable PC's wouldn't work. I had to use a threaded coupler on my homemade to connect the PC to the blaster, as expansion cylinders have a male threaded outlet. Either use a washer, or a bit of Teflon thread seal tape on the threads, and you'll be fine.

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Re: Concepts thread

Post by SEAL » Tue Jul 16, 2013 3:29 pm

My APH PCs were threaded on. I'm really glad they were because otherwise I wouldn't have been able to fix them after they broke off.

Also, I think we seriously need to move on from the classic APH design. It's what, 10 years old? The design is simple and easy to make, but it's far from practical. I know this because I built one.
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Re: Concepts thread

Post by soakinader » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:31 pm

Arg Well it won't be as pretty as Cloudburst, but I am developing a new streamlined APH as we speak... with an optional pull valve!
...You guys know what I'm talking about. Not that it matters, but it's in the works. I think the general APH concept needs some fine tuning, but with the parts that are readily available, I don't think there is much that can be done at the moment.
As for the flexible hose majig, I can totally see the casing having a small hole in the back for the tubing, with about twice as much length available for it to bend (I'm thinking upwards)
Image
So there it is. I added some marks to the hose to give you an idea of how it moves. I suppose there would be less... deadspace in the front? Is that the idea here?
Naturally, this would make for some different design problems, but the concept is there. I suppose the trick is dealing with the length and attaching the pump somehow?
OMG, I just realised what this would be perfect for- a backpack gun! The hose would be moving and the length is flexible anyways! This would be perfect for a ... reverse-power pack type gun. It might be a little heavy (after all, you are holding the PC in your hand) and the pump (if there is one) would be attached to the backpack/reservoir, so it would be interesting to say the least.
Sounds like fun! I think I will try and build this. I want to know what the advantages of this design are. SEAL, what is the concept?
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Re: Concepts thread

Post by SEAL » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:28 pm

There aren't really any advantages to the design other than it works with my concept. If I were to make the same gun but with a conventional setup, it would be more bulky. Your suggestion looks like it'd make my gun way too long, but I suppose it would work with a backpack gun. If you do make one, I'd be really interested to see how it turns out.
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Re: Concepts thread

Post by soakinader » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:17 pm

OK, I have had a few different ideas but I think we finally have a winner for a functional back-filled PC design. Behold! MK 2 and MK 3:
Image
***Edit: These drawings are terrible. Look down for a much better one.***
The size is roughly thus: a foot of LRT, with a 2 foot long casing. Note the brace holding up the back end of the PC, and the ambiguous trigger area.
The MK2, my initial design, follows my original idea but makes the scale of the gun too long- meaning a really, really long pump, or a smaller PC.
The MK3 design simplifies the structural layout and allows for a 2 foot long pump while keeping the overall length under 3 feet. The PC tubing now extends in a horseshoe curved shape out of the back of the gun, a design I know will put minimum strain on the tubing connectors. This would be my final design for the "reverse CPH". Of course the case, LRT and pump length can be tweaked as desired. In particular, I will size my version so that I can comfortably fit my forearm through the brace all the way to the trigger handle. This may involve moving the brace forwards slightly or using a 18" long case. I like the idea of being able to put the weight of the PC directly onto my arm. And having a nice, big long pump is always better.

***Edit! Here is a new pic showing off the MK3 Back-Filled CPH design!***
Image
This is a slightly scaled design cut away, showing internals for the water pressurization system. The PC casing here should be 4" X 12" long, as should the space in between the case and the pump. The LRT in this diagram is then 6" long, with 1/2" barbs at each end. Forgot to add a spacer/brace at the LRT/tubing joint in the picture so that it stays centered, but it will get there. Note that the size of the PC and pump dimensions can be varied. This drawing would actually make a fairly small gun, between 2-2.5 feet in length, compared to the original dimensions which would be close to 3 feet not including the hose! The vinyl hose sticking out the back is 15" in length, you can see how it moves between being empty and full. The braces and structural pieces (EG the tees) should be 1" PVC, while the actual pump and water flow (as shown) should fit inside these pieces, between 3/4" and 1/2". Also, the check valves are half the length they should actually be (ran out of paper!). Excluded are the reservoir and the firing system; which will likely be a hose to a backpack, and either a ball valve or a pull valve if I am successful with that. ***Edit complete.***

Now to work on the backpack only design...basically the same thing without the bottom part attached to the PC.
Last edited by soakinader on Sun Jul 28, 2013 4:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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