Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

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fuzeEXR
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Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by fuzeEXR » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:28 am

Hey guys, I bought a cps 4100 last year and still have not reinforced the trigger! Luckily no break yet, however I was wondering if anyone can get me more in depth pictures on how to do this because I've read the repair instructions people have posted out but none had many pics. Also would I HAVE to open up the gun to do so?

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the oncoming storm
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by the oncoming storm » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:44 am

Yes you will need to open the gun to reinforce the trigger However I doubt that yours is the dreaded Mk2,which is so well known for broken triggers that working Mk2's can only really be found NIB.
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by Andrew » Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:12 am

This article and this thread (click on the image in the third post) probably have the best pics of what you need to do. You could do this with the blaster intact, but it would be easier to open it, especially if you want to add metal sheets to either side of the trigger as per the second link.

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fuzeEXR
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by fuzeEXR » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:58 am

Thanks for the quick response guys, are there much difference in looks compared to mk2 4100's and the others because according to ssc mine seems to have the looks of an mk2 but it doesn't have the terrible trigger pressure that others have that I've heard snaps the trigger. I used to have a 4100 that I got for my birthday a while back (will be 9 years next month) and I broke my trigger within a few weeks and with me only being 7 years old and not knowing any better I just trashed it but knock on wood, so far this has not broken on me.

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the oncoming storm
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by the oncoming storm » Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:22 pm

The first mark, MK1 was released in 2002. The inside of the cap on the reserve (and the piece of plastic that teathers it) is purple, on the MK2 this is orange.
However their is a 3rd Mk that has been almost forgotten about and lost to time, much like all the Silver CPS 2700 Mk3's
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fuzeEXR
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by fuzeEXR » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:30 pm

Some pictures of the gun and what some of the mk indicators are, maybe you can help me know which one this is.
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fuzeEXR
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by fuzeEXR » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:32 pm

Trigger area
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soakinader
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by soakinader » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:36 pm

You might as well open the gun IF you want to re-inforce the trigger. The only thing that might give you trouble is the cap where the SC adapter would be.
If, like you say, you find that the trigger pull is very smooth, you might be safe for a while. But if you are going to be using it, it's probably easier to reinforce it now than repair it later. As I recall, the trigger piece is ridiulously thin for no apparent reason.
I know that my 2nd CPS 1700 trigger is starting to weaken (because I opened the case), but at the time I didn't have the parts to do it and I won't be using it very much in the next little while, so I closed it back up.
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by DukeSoakem » Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:42 pm

That 4100 looks like a Mark 1 to me, the purple reservoir cap tether and seam on the back of the reservoir give it away. Mark 2's have large rectangular ridges down the rear of the reservoir and an orange reservoir cap tether. Chances are the trigger should be fine, although reinforcement is always a plus if you want to be really sure.
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fuzeEXR
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by fuzeEXR » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:23 pm

Wow that's cool to know that I have an mk1, it might last a little while after all then!

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fuzeEXR
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by fuzeEXR » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:28 pm

BTW, what is a SC adapter?

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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by HBWW » Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:52 pm

SC adapter is also known as a QFD: http://www.isoaker.com/Armoury/qfd.html

You can also build your own which would be more durable and usable for shooting and/or filling other blasters/devices.

Two metal strips from the side is the best way to reinforce a trigger. The method on SSC (1 metal strip under) is not as effective and is completely useless if you cut the metal strip too short. Use epoxy good for plastic and metal (I use Devcon plastic welder), do NOT use Gorilla Glue as it will not last.

I strongly advise reinforcing the trigger for many CPS's. They will be stronger this way and much less likely to break in the future. I consider some triggers, such as the 2100 MK II or 4100 MK II, to be defective by design, so I see the reinforcement as more of a necessary repair.

ALWAYS make sure your sheet metal cuts have plenty of surface area contact for both parts of the trigger! I've found this to be the primary cause of failure.
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by the oncoming storm » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:01 pm

CA99 posted just before I could but anyway

An SC adapter is a hose quick connect on some 1999-2001 super soakers that allowed them to be filled and pumped by the hose without removing the cap, it also filled them faster without getting you wet.

M4 once told me that his Monster XL took 36 seconds to "Quick Fill", Dukesoakem rated the SC Power Pak at around 30 seconds, the Monster 2001 (An SC capable 4100) took 25-30 seconds to fill, the fastest gun would be the SC 400 at under 5 seconds to fill though it is a pistol.

Most people don't know this but if you jam the firing nozzle on a 4100 into a QFD it can still quick fill, even though it lacks the special adapter to do so.
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by fuzeEXR » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:49 pm

How does it fill the tank from the nozzle?

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the oncoming storm
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Post by the oncoming storm » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:53 pm

can't explain it myself but trust me it works.
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by Andrew » Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:33 pm

It uses the PRV. Once it fills the pressure chamber to firing pressure, the PRV opens and fills the reservoir!

soakinader
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by soakinader » Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:58 pm

Yeah, basically the SC- device on the blaster is a one way valve, just like the firing valve in any CPS blaster. So it makes sense that you could apply water pressure to the front side of the pressure chamber and fill it that way.
Idea: Might be able to use that knowledge to make some blasters (CPS 1000, 1200, 2500, etc) SC-capable by fitting a piece of pipe and the right size of O ring around the nozzle. Cool!
Also, my Monster fills way faster than 20 seconds. It all depends on your piping I guess.
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by Andrew » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:52 am

Oh, he meant the firing nozzle on a 4100 not an SC nozzle in general. Yeah, like soakinader said, the pressure on one side of the firing valve will push it open like a big check valve (as long as the valve is a pull valve). After that, the water fills the PC, then opens the PRV when the PC is full, then fills the reservoir too.

If you wanted to do this to a ball valve blaster, or you want to see if you can fill it faster, you can pull the trigger while filling. As long as the working pressure of the PC, combined with the pressure acting on the back of the pull valve (due to the spring), is less than the pressure of the water supply it will always fill the PC (and then the reservoir) if the pull valve is open or not. The only time you might have trouble, is if the PC working pressure is very close to the pressure of the water supply, as the water supply pressure will have to work against the filling PC and the spring in the valve. Pulling the trigger during filling removes the pressure acting on the water supply due to the spring, allowing you to fill the blaster to a (very slightly) higher pressure (but maybe just enough to activate a high set PRV or to fill a stronger PC that little bit further).

You could, in theory, make any blaster SC/QFD capable through it's firing nozzle (but you would have to hold open ball valves).

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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by HBWW » Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:04 am

In this case, it's a matter of nozzle shape and whether it happens to fit. Same deal with water balloons: most blasters have plenty of pressure to fill them but the nozzle has to accommodate.

Theoretically, it's possible to cause damaging backflow if you have a ball valve based blaster that's already pressurized at a higher pressure than that of the source. However, they usually have check valves to prevent this problem, but it's hard to be sure. Pull valves act as check valves however, and the vast majority of water guns (even homemades) operate at 30 PSI or less. APH's may go closer to 40 or even 50.
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fuzeEXR
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Re: Cps 4100 trigger reinforcement

Post by fuzeEXR » Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:07 pm

Just reinforced my 4100's trigger. I will post a pic can you guys tell me if I did it right?
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