Glue/Cement and Pressure

[SEAL]

Lately I have been trying to fix my CPS 2000s valve from leaking, but after three unsuccessful tries, I have to come here for assistance. Pressure leaks from the pull valve seam is apparently a pretty common problem with 2000s and 2500s; marauder's old 2500 has this problem as well. Unfortunately the 15-minute epoxy I've been using won't hold back the pressure. The water keeps spraying out from underneath the cement. It's getting very, very annoying, and I had similar results when I tried to patch up the cracks in my SS 300s PCs. So my question is, does anybody know of any glue or cement that actually can hold back the amount of pressure that gets pumped into stock water guns?

The funny thing is that I've used epoxy to hold together a 12K valve before, which it did so easily (the valve was messed up on the inside though, so I still couldn't use it). I don't get why it won't work now.

[marauder]

I wouldn't advise anyone to use any kind of quick weld or quick solvent for pressure repairs. Try using water weld. That stuff is great because it's a putty. Plug the crack with it and then pile more on top.

[TheSoaker]

hey is the leak on a flat surface? my 1200 had a leak and I used PVC cement and glued a pice of plastic sheet to the leak literaly patching the leak. and it worked!

[HBWW]

I'm dealing with leaks from behind the pull valve where the pin goes out. Has anyone else deal with this before? I'd be curious of a working solution that doesn't involve sawing the valve open.

[SEAL]

Unfortunately the leak isn't on a flat surface. I'll see if I can find any water weld at the store. Thanks for the help.

CA99: I've never had that problem before, and I can't really imagine why it would happen. Obviously a seal somewhere failed, but I don't know where, because I've never seen such a seal in valves before (it's probably out of sight). Sorry.

[Nemesis]

Water weld. Tried and tested by me too. Great stuff.

[isoaker]

If trying to repair a pressure chamber, I think you'll have more luck with a patch as opposed to just relying on some sort of glue on its own. While not on a pressure chamber (but one a plastic shelf definitely experiencing a lot of load stress), I'm going to try gluing and reinforcing the area with an aluminum-foil+glue patch. Glue, alone, keeps snapping, but foil should offer more tensile strength. To improve the adhesiveness of the parts, I'll also be lightly sanding things to rough up the surface, increasing the contact/bonding areas for the glue to bind. Of course, after sanding, need to get rid of the dust so that's where some compressed air cans come in handy. Granted, haven't tried this on a PC, but I'd still think a patch would hold better/longer than just glue alone.

[SEAL]

Yeah, a patch would definitely be a good idea, but none of the cracks I'm trying to plug are on flat surfaces. I didn't think of aluminum foil though. Also, I have mixed pieces of fiberglass into epoxy before, which worked out pretty well. In the case of the 2000 and 2500 valve though, it'd be nice if I could still cut open the valve if necessary, which sounds like would be very hard with fiberglass or aluminum foil.

Where can one find water weld anyway? Just any old Lowes or Home Depot? I assume it would be in the plumbing section.

[HBWW]

My current attempt will be to plug up the area with silicone, but I know that it's not even going to work. (However, the uncertainty is worth a try IMO.)

If it's just a pipe crack, I've found that epoxy fixes it up just fine since the pipe does not expand under pressure. Air pressure chambers however, are a completely different issue. I've never dealt with APC cracks before, but I have a ton of air PR's with cracks that I still haven't finished fixing. This thread should be able to help you out: http://www.waterwar.net/site_wwn/board/topic6053.html

I haven't heard of aluminum foil being used, and intuitively it seems like a bad idea. What I'm currently attempting is a cut of sheet metal with epoxy over the main area, with a surrounding of superglue. At the very end, I will spread silicone sealant over it to keep the pressure seal. I will report back once this is completed and tested.

I will have to check out water weld. I've been using Devcon's Plastic Welder currently; it's a good product for sheet metal trigger repairs.

[isoaker]

I haven't heard of aluminum foil being used, and intuitively it seems like a bad idea. What I'm currently attempting is a cut of sheet metal with epoxy over the main area, with a surrounding of superglue. At the very end, I will spread silicone sealant over it to keep the pressure seal. I will report back once this is completed and tested.

While I haven't tried it on a PR yet and while there are better patches possible, depending on where a crack may be, I'm not sure why your objection against the tensile strength of foil. Aluminum foil can tear if there is a start made, but for the tear to spread, force needs to be applied in a particular way that would not arise from standard PC expansion stress. A fitted piece of plastic or metal would undoubtedly make a better patch, of course, but if the shape where the crack sits is hard to match, perhaps some foil under compression from a larger, less-perfectly fit piece to improve sealing would work.

[HBWW]

I say intuitively because aluminum foil could crack if pushed apart too much in one direction. That said, I'm not as clear on the nature of the forces exerted on cracked chambers. I suppose combining it with stronger material is a better approach to it.

[soakinader]

I'm dealing with leaks from behind the pull valve where the pin goes out. Has anyone else deal with this before? I'd be curious of a working solution that doesn't involve sawing the valve open.

Hey there, I am in the process of succesfully fixing a leak from the area behind the pull valve, right around the pin on a CPS 1500. Roughly in the top right of the pic (you can see the water between the orange part and the PC plastic)

Mine wasn't cracked; but the problem ISN'T actually the seal between that part of the plastic and the pin. In actuality, if you open up the PC you will find two miniscule o rings behind the seat of the valve held in by a spring. I don't have any pictures at the moment (phone was charging) but I drew some diagrams and I will get some pics and post a write up when I can (possibly tomorrow). In the meantime, what I did was grind off the tip of the pin so that I could pull the mechanism out from inside the PC (you have to unscrew the PC). Then I used some rust solvent, got the spring moving again, and smoothed out the pin. Now I just need to drill a tiny hole in the end of the pin and insert a cauter pin (or a c clip) to hold the trigger link in place. Boom, done.

On a side note, I have used epoxy (JB Weld) to hold together an exploded CPS 1000 PC (around the base of the pull valve), and Miracle glue (cyanoacryllate/ super glue) to hold together a ruptured CPS 3000 PC case.. have pics of both.

[marauder]

Water Weld can be found at Wal Mart. I would advise you to wear gloves while mixing it since the container says "contains materials known to the state of California to cause cancer."

I didn't care about stuff like that when I was growing up. Even recently I used to spray paint indoors. I never understood the idea that it could be cancer forming, I just thought people didn't want you to do that cuz it made the place smell like aerosol or it could make you pass out, but cancer isn't something to mess around with.

[Nemesis]

I don't use gloves, but who knows, i might get cancer and i may not.

[HBWW]

I use gloves when something smells like it could kill you. So I've used gloves for some epoxy and no gloves for others. However, I've found that gloves do not work for putty (at least Loctite's) because it sticks too easily to it.

Aside from carcinogens, these sorts of chemicals can trigger skin, respiratory, and/or nervous system irritations if exposed excessively. Better safe than sorry, which is why HBWW advocates responsible water warfare workshop practices.

[soakinader]

I use gloves when something smells like it could kill you.

That doesn't sound like a bad rule of thumb; but then again there are a LOT of things that don't smell bad that can poison or kill you too.
Then again, despite the smell, my sister's tuna casserole has been proven non-lethal.

contains materials known to the state of California to cause cancer

This drives me crazy. Most people would think that something like this causes cancer? Wrong. Do some more research besides reading the label.
Everything causes cancer these days. You are more likely to get it from walking by smokers than by touching some mystery "materials".
I miss the previous century with asbestos, polonium and CFC's. Back when people were ignorant and unconcerned.

As far as fun with glue goes, use your brains. If it needs ventilation, give it lots of ventilation (especially when drying) and don't stay in the same room.
If it is caustic, use gloves and don't handle it for long (especially if it melts your gloves!)
If you are going to be exposed excessively for some reason, do something about it. Sore throat, eyes, headaches, cough. Not fun.
Braains.
*Edit* SEAL.... SEAALL>.. Where are you?

[HBWW]

On second thought, it's not a great rule. Epoxy in general should probably be handled with gloves when possible. As for ventilation, I cement in open garage or outside when possible, or in the basement with open windows and a fan when not. Fans are great in general, keeping plastic sawdust from Dremels and hacksaw away as well as chemical fumes.

As far as the California label (for birth defects or cancer) goes, I get that label on Xmas lights and vinyl tubing, so I don't regard it too seriously, but I may, for example, wash my hands after handling something with the label.

[soakinader]

Here's a picture of how the pull valve should be:

I had to grind off the end of the pin, slide everything off, and then grind and spray at the rust to get the spring loose. The spring pushes the plastic which pushes the two little o rings on the pin- those are what is keeping the water inside of the PC. Afterwords, I drilled a tiny (<1/16) hole in the end with a drill press, and shoved a cauter pin through the hole. Fixed. I am going to test it tomorrow and see if it works.

[SEAL]

Well it looks like water weld has become my go-to material for repairing pressure leaks. Both of my 50-footers are working now thanks to it!

[soakinader]

Interesting... On a side note, I fixed the XP 95 with regular JB weld. Maybe I will pick up some water weld if I can find it for less than 10$.