Trigger Re-enforcement

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Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by SEAL » Sun May 12, 2013 9:11 am

Alright, so apparently the plastic trigger pieces on several classic CPS blasters don't tend to hold up very well. At MOAB, my 2500's trigger nearly split in two during the second raid-the-building round (hanging on by a thin piece of plastic), and my 2700 has developed a small crack in its trigger (which has actually held up since the Dec. 9th of last year when I met DX and M4 south of here, because I remember that the trigger suddenly started feeling different in one of the battles we had; I didn't realize it was cracked until the "Last Chance" LBW war).

So I know some of you have experience with trigger re-enforcing. How exactly is it done? Is it as simple as just filling the crack with epoxy, or is there a catch? Also, I hear that some guns should get this treatment before they break. Which ones? I know the 2000 and 2500 do, and I assume the 2700 too. And is that done differently than repairs to already broken triggers?

This is probably already discussed somewhere, but I can't find it, and my allergies are making me so damn miserable that I don't feel like trying to search.
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by HBWW » Sun May 12, 2013 9:55 am

The original SSC articles is here: http://www.sscentral.org/repairs/snapped_trigger.html

However, the approach isn't good. I've found that sheet metal reinforcements from the bottom are useless I'm the long term due to how easily they break. Best way is to use sheet metal cuts and approach from the side. I recommend Devcon plastic welder epoxy. Make sure the sheet metal cuts have a good amount of area to cover both pieces of the trigger. Here's a photo.

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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by SEAL » Mon May 13, 2013 9:39 am

So I should just epoxy strips of sheet metal to the sides of the trigger (not the trigger itself, just the thin part)? I'll have to see if I have any.
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by DX » Mon May 13, 2013 11:19 am

It depends on whether the trigger is cracked or already in pieces. If it's still hanging on, epoxy putty alone suffices, when mixed properly and applied liberally. If it's snapped off, you could try a more liquid epoxy followed by the metal strips, followed by putty. You may have to enlarge the trigger slot in the casing with pliers to accomodate the reinforced trigger.
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by HBWW » Mon May 13, 2013 12:01 pm

^ I haven't quite found that to be the case. I've used the SSC article method of patching up triggers that were cracked but still together (using rubber bands to keep the piece together as its supposed to be while curing), and this has not solved the problem; it simply broke shortly.

Metal side straps are really the only way to go that'll last.

I've had to use Dremel grinders and sandpaper on some triggers to get space for the metal reinforcement. The 2700's design was particularly nasty for this, but I got it to work eventually.
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by the oncoming storm » Mon May 13, 2013 12:12 pm

Yeah my Gorgon has a stiff trigger, but me and Evan (From the CTF game) can still tap shoot it. funny because some people can't even fire it :D . at the CTF game I had to decline an offer by Evan to buy my Gorgon. He really needs to get a high CPS class weapon.
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by SEAL » Mon May 13, 2013 1:39 pm

Well my 2500's trigger is still hanging on, and my 2700's trigger just has a thin crack in it. I was mostly referring to guns that haven't broken yet. Should they be re-enforced with metal strips too?
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by HBWW » Mon May 13, 2013 1:59 pm

Reinforcement would definitely be a good preemptive solution, and may last longer than is possible with repairing. I've never done it but now it's something I'd seriously consider for blasters with triggers that were specifically designed to break.
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by supersoakerman » Tue May 14, 2013 4:46 am

if one of mine ever broke i would use sikabond® polyurethane glue, it has helped me glue together things inside 2 CPS 1000s many times and it's waterproof
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by scottthewaterwarrior » Tue May 14, 2013 8:05 am

OK, I need to get in on this since I really don't want my 2500 to go dead on me. I have to ask, do you need to take the gun apart or can you widen the trigger slot/reinforce the trigger without taking it apart? I just ask because I have been very unsuccessful with taking guns apart. I have a 1200 on the workbench right now but the darn nozzle cover won't come off! How hard is the 2500 to take apart anyway? If it is just a matter of getting off the screws I can probably get it apart but it is the glued parts that normally get me.
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by SEAL » Tue May 14, 2013 10:25 am

The 2500 is pretty easy to take apart. There's only one glued area; the front strap hook. This needs to be sawed in half (down the seam) in order to get the gun open, but it's very easy. The only thing is, if you don't do a good job, you might ruin the strap hook and not be able to use it anymore. Personally I don't think it's a big deal, because I never use straps anyway (except if I'm carrying multiple guns at a time, which I don't often do); they just get in the way.

As for pre-reinforcing, it's probably a good idea, but I don't want to have to try to cut up my guns if I don't have to. Maybe I'll just coat the trigger piece in epoxy or something. Should help, right?
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by HBWW » Tue May 14, 2013 11:56 am

False, glued strap hooks can be pried apart. They're simply part of the casing, just an area that happens to be glued. Just unscrew all and push the case g halves around until the glue gets pushed apart.

For the small, but ineffective trigger reinforcement (the one shown on SSC that applies a metal strip to just the bottom) , you don't need to take it apart, but doing so is required for the proper method (two side metal strips).
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by scottthewaterwarrior » Tue May 14, 2013 12:37 pm

I can saw the strap hook on my 2500 easy, it is in the perfect place for my coping saw to have at it. The problem comes in areas such as the pump caps on the Flash Flood where the shape of the gun prevents me from getting the saw in there. Good to here that the 2500 has little glued parts, I will see what I can do about doing a pump repair soon. Any ideas of where I can get sheet metal to reinforce the trigger? Is it the kind of thing that most hardware stores would carry or would I need to go somewhere special?

I might not get to it before Soakemore though, I'm trying to get a lot of completely broken guns working for the event. I have started taking apart my 1200 and fixed two Vindicators in the last three days. I have some really nice internal pictures of the Vindicator that I can post as well as advice on how best to take it apart and solve problems.
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by HBWW » Tue May 14, 2013 1:01 pm

No need to saw, just push the casing apart. At worst, you may need the help of a small/sharp flathead screwdriver and a hammer (which is what I used for the Vindicator and my first Flash Flood), but shouldn't need to destroy the thing.

Hardware stores should have something. My dad found some around the house several years ago, so I've simply been using that and a sheet metal cutter.

As for Soakemore, my approach in the workshop is to simply prioritize for war. That broken 4100 is not getting fixed until I have a combat-effective APH and WBL for the naval wars.
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by marauder » Tue May 14, 2013 3:28 pm

I think it's best to reinforce your triggers before the break happens. Always add epoxy to the crack, but I also recommend reinforcing the sides like CA99 said. If nothing else, you could take it to a metal shop and have them produce a replacement.
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by HBWW » Tue May 14, 2013 3:42 pm

I can't imagine epoxy alone being of much help, to be honest. It needs to be accompanied by something else.

Great call on the metal shop. Main issue I can see with it is with them producing something that doesn't fit, but it should be fine if they go by exact size. I guess some ideas from the 3D printing thread can be applied here; if you can CAD out a working trigger piece, you can get it made even if it's not within the ease and comfort of home.
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by SEAL » Wed May 15, 2013 9:17 am

My dad is actually a machinist, and operates CNC machines. Not sure if they could make a trigger plate, but if they could, that would be awesome. I should ask my dad about it.

As for the strap hooks, it seems like it would be easier to just saw them in half instead of trying to pry them apart, but who knows. I'll try it when I open up my 2500.
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by SEAL » Mon May 20, 2013 5:30 pm

I did my 2500 today. I basically globbed a bunch of epoxy into the crack, then I stuck strips of metal onto both sides. It works very well, and I only had to file down one of the guiderails for the trigger a little bit.

Image

When I put it back together, I tried to fire it, but nothing happened. Perplexed, I reopened it and found that the pin that holds the lever (that pulls out the firing pin) had somehow come out of it's holes. This serves as a lesson to anybody who opens up water guns: Make sure everything is in its right place before you put the gun back together!

And I tried to pry apart the strap hook, but it didn't feel like it was going to budge, so I sawed it most of the way through and pulled the rest apart. I might've been able to pry it apart without sawing, but honestly I think it's a lot easier to just cut through it real quick.
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Re: Trigger Re-enforcement

Post by soakinader » Tue May 21, 2013 1:46 am

Whoa, why is everyone all saw crazy? Whenever I have had a glued strap hook, I would just run a razor/exacto blade along the seam. 9 times out of ten, the shell would seperate like that. The only time it didn't work I just had to cut a little deeper, than wedge my pocket knife into the crack to slowly force it apart. It takes no time at all.
I never could have taken apart at least a dozen guns by now if it wasn't for exacto knives. Those things are so sharp it's ridiculous. Who needs a saw?
Using a saw is a last resort, it is a crude and messy method that can be awkward or impossible to do with the saw you have. You can cut through pretty much any plastic with a razor blade with some practice, and it makes nice clean cuts without shredding or shaving off 1/8" of plastic.
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