MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Discussion of past, present, and future water war events.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by marauder » Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:22 am

I'm still open for the April 16th weekend. That won't be a full moon, but if that's when people can come, that's for the best.

This venue is one of the few woods locations that is actually built for night fighting, as Rob has noted. That is one major reason I want to start Friday evening. The other is that we would be wasting time, and people will tire out at some time the next day either way. It happens every single time.

I'm still highly considering the visiting team (whoever is not on my team) being dropped off and fighting their way OHS style to a place where they would then set up their camp. We could incorporate your flag idea by the visiting team placing a flag at the base as a way of ending the first, invasion, phase. You'd be given a few minute breather to set up your tents, the flag, and come up with some sort of plan. This would really not be that complex, as the war would flow - OHS, CTF, OHS again after first flag is captured.

One heavy and two light weapons per team sounds like it would mix things up a bit, I think I'm going to go with that. I want people running, not standing around in lines.

Heavy will be defined as CPS 2000, 2500, 2700, 1500/1700, and SS 300
Light will be defined as Outlaw, 150, 310, Blazer, Colossi, 600...

What is the word on Van's attendance for the weekend of the 16th or 23rd? Stephen, where are you at in regards to transportation? If we get a month out and you don't have a ride we can talk about a train or bus ticket if you want to come. We want you here.

If Stephen and Van can come I am willing to do North vs South.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by GJIV » Sat Feb 27, 2016 4:21 pm

Haha, this sounds so great. It is quite a crazy idea, but I am even thinkin about, checking in an airplane and visit you guys for this event....

In the end not so sure, wheather the effort is ok or too much but definatelly thinking about that. There is some time left to catch my thoughts haha

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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by marauder » Sun Feb 28, 2016 9:22 am

GJIV wrote:Haha, this sounds so great. It is quite a crazy idea, but I am even thinkin about, checking in an airplane and visit you guys for this event....

In the end not so sure, wheather the effort is ok or too much but definatelly thinking about that. There is some time left to catch my thoughts haha
Wow, that would be so great!

You could pick up your guns in person too. The reason I haven't contacted you again about it is paypal takes 3 weeks to process payments, and I'm not sure if I can wait 3 weeks for the $100 to go from paypal to my bank account with building a house right now.

We would absolutely love to have you though.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by marauder » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:47 pm

Update:

Date set in stone for Apri 15-17.


Something came up weekend of April 23rd with family.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by DX » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:44 pm

It cost $320, but I got my cylinder misfire taken care of and the engine tuned up. Much of the shaky shake and chugga chugga is gone, and the check engine light is even off. It's so weird driving without the check engine light on! My mechanic cleared it as safe to drive to North Carolina, but I really need to take it easy on this thing from now on. No more Fast and Focusious or Mad Rob: Fury Road. Driving slower will add an hour or more to the drive time, lol.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by the oncoming storm » Sat Mar 05, 2016 5:40 pm

Sorry too have dropped out of the loop everyone, I'm still at square 1 of finding a car I still have an eye on a few But until my mechanically minded dad gets back next week I can't realistically go looking at them. At this point it all hinges on car for me, as I don't want to have to fly or take a bus out there. I've got a working 150 and drilled (2x, 5x, modded typhoon) Gargantuan ready for this war if it works out for me.
If you ever bother reading these, I worry for your mental sanity. :oo:

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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by HBWW » Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:43 pm

There's two possibilities here: I either get the days off I need to, or fly in again. I feel that the 10:30 to Rob's is just about at my limit, but we'll see. Most likely I'll still go for the road, but airfare is cheap right now. ($230ish)
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by SEAL » Sun Mar 13, 2016 11:58 am

So I'm about 95% going to be there at this point. What's the current plan/schedule?
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by HBWW » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:50 pm

Airfare has spiked; should've bought tickets earlier. At this point I may be in for the long haul. I'll see what ends up happening as I'm trying to plan for 2 other traveling events right now.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by marauder » Mon Mar 14, 2016 2:33 am

SEAL wrote:So I'm about 95% going to be there at this point. What's the current plan/schedule?
Friday Apr 15th 7 hrs, 40 mins fight time (long ohs)
Visiting team invades @ 5pm
o) 1st round (ohs) is over when visiting team captures 1 of 3 flags. Visiting team sets up their tents at this flag. Points from this round carry over to next round
o) visiting team gets 20 minutes to set up camp, discuss strategy. Night ohs resumes after this point. Ends at 1 pm


Saturday Apr 16th
9:30am long field CTF
10:00am? long field CTF switch sides
10:30 HVT (high value targets) SEAL, Duxburian, Marauder get heavy primaries and 3 lives each, everyone else gets light/med with unlimited lives. HVTs try to hold out for greatest amount of time/most hits on chasing team possible.
??? Lunch/Rest
Afternoon: Long ohs restarts with same teams as first day, slightly modified if necessary for balance.
Evening/night long OHS+CTF (flags worth 5 points) I think you will really like this, as it will cause some sort of stability on the battlefield and lots of sneaking.

Sunday Apr 17
????


Honestly, I'm running out of motivation, because I'm seeing some flaws with the plan. First, I think that starting off with long OHS would be preferable since being unfamiliar with the terrain and the sun quickly setting will cause lots of confusion and will greatly up the opportunities for ambush. This however, is in conflict with the fact that people may not all be able to get here in time and people being tired from long car rides. In a sick, twisted, kind of way I want to force everyone to fight a long OHS after being in the car for a long time because it reproduces some of my experiences, having to rely on inner strength, force yourself to stay focussed, etc.

I'm also concerned about the terrain.
rsz_1rsz_map.jpg
rsz_1rsz_map.jpg (264.11 KiB) Viewed 1344 times
This would be great for night fighting, but the great distance between the two major areas of dense lowland forest is only good for running back and forth between CTF. There are a few clumps of trees and in some places the grass is kind of high, but mostly it's very open, which essentially isolates the map into two seperate areas; unless you include the area above the mill which is not as good, but still pretty decent. The mill is awesome, but the stone columns are by the water, so there is a hill above it, which is a major disadvantage. The creek is also big enough to where you can't get across in most places. This could be a good thing, because it forces strategic crossing, but that also splits the good terrain (closest to the left corner of your screen/ranch rd) in half most of the ways. The island area doesn't have a problem with this, in fact, there are like 100 mini streams there that are super awesome and challenging but small enough to jump.

I'm kind of worried that we are setting our expectations up too high. This battlefield would be excellent for 1 long ohs that lasts from late afternoon until early in the morning, which is not exactly what SEAL wants - sunny morning until a few hours after dark - but after that I think it might be played out. Of course, I may be overanalyzing this because I've been out there so many times.

Maybe I'm also paranoid because I just got yelled at today for kayaking on Lake Benson and supposedly that's not allowed. It was by some guy who had a private boat ramp, and may or may not be staff, and the rules online seemed dubious, and there were 2 fishing boats on the lake too... but we have had our run ins before. I have the real estate agent's number for the 2 small properties closest to the road, and I can ask for permission to walk on them now that I have that number. Getting permission from Carolina Packers hotdogs, who owns the main part of the battlefield will be more difficult, but I guess I should just start calling. I don't think anyone will go out there, but all the hunting stands nearby on the adjacent tracks also make me hesitant. I could also call the owners of St John's woods and ask for permission this time, but I'm kind of hesitant about that as well.

Riverwood would be a good alternate if I lived there already, because we could use the battlefield at night (which would be great) and some during the day, but also retreat back to my house to clean up in between and to take a break so as to lower our chances of getting into trouble with parents (kids frequent the area during the day) and to avoid problems with the HOA.

I'm wondering if we shouldn't just find a campground somewhere. I know, that doesn't sound as extreme, or cool, but I don't want to build something up that has a lot of question marks and things that could go wrong. It only takes one of those to cause a problem. The amount of people being shot by cops/nervous neighbors/etc has me hesitant.

*EDIT*
I am going to check out Falls Lake campground. I've boated here a lot, and the campgrounds are great and easy to access, but I have never checked out the miles of trails and forest.

I will also check out Eno River State Park, which I've been to a lot of times before, I just need to find the perfect place to fight.

Both of these options would be 30 mins to an hour closer to anyone driving from up north. They would also be legal, and the hike in wouldn't be as strenuous/long as from Umstead.

Most of my music video > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hvay2RswWc was recorded at the Eno
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by DX » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:26 am

Maybe I'm also paranoid because I just got yelled at today for kayaking on Lake Benson and supposedly that's not allowed. It was by some guy who had a private boat ramp, and may or may not be staff, and the rules online seemed dubious, and there were 2 fishing boats on the lake too...
I did some research into this and it appears that private boats are indeed not allowed on the lake. Only the park's Jon boat rentals are allowed at its boathouse further down the road. The rule apparently exists because the lake is designated as a backup public drinking water supply source. This is also why swimming, wading, and shoreline fishing are banned. There is actually a sign that states this about 30ft to the right of where we entered the lake - which is why we didn't see it. I think this is dumb because Garner/Raleigh have one foot in and one foot out when it comes to deciding whether it should be a recreational lake or a drinking supply reservoir. They can't have it both ways, they need to choose. If I were on their boards, I'd make the case for rec.

It is just too late to make it work as a drinking supply reservoir. That has to be planned from the beginning, with the upstream watershed protected and the reservoir shoreline buffered from developments. They can't isolate a reservoir from its water system and expect it to work out. Look at the Swift Creek watershed upstream of Lake Benson. They are building a large housing development next to it and fragile wetlands. All the sand/dirt/silt and whatever chemicals from construction are going to end up in the lake. The developer always says they are meeting high standards and there won't be runoff, but no - bad shit *always* ends up in the watershed from these projects.

The lake itself has houses built right on it, with very insufficient buffer. Many of these properties slope down to the lake (I pay attention to things like this), so whatever chemicals they put on their lawn and whatever construction they do ends up in the lake. They are probably able to sneak some swimming or boating in (I saw private canoes in several backyards). Since there's not a wide enough buffer from the shoreline, who knows what they are able to do. Enforcement is just not possible at this point.

I could tell that Swift Creek is fairly degraded, even from a night visit. All that sand washed up that high is unhealthy, it is carrying really heavy sediment load. Sediment load smothers plant life in a waterway. Without those plants anchoring it down, its own bed gets washed out like a sand dune on a beach with no dune grass in a hurricane. Eventually, this destabilizes its banks, leading to increased flooding. The internets say that Swift Creek's load is heavy coming into Lake Benson, and it gets very shallow throughout (other than near the dam), resulting in the need to dredge. Dredging is very expensive, not something you want to be doing to a reservoir on a regular basis.

The sediment is having a detrimental effect on water and habitat quality. The shallows reduce habitat for fish to hold in, reducing the diversity and size of fish in the lake. I found that fishermen are complaining about these things already. Shallow water heats up, and when combined with runoff nutrients, enables invasive plants to blossom and smother the bottom. The lake is also filled with invasive asian clams and only one species of highly tolerant freshwater mussel, at least I only found one, and only a single shell of it. Central North Carolina lies on the South Atlantic Slope region and should have much higher species diversity in its creeks and lakes. The region has about 8 times more species diversity than what is found in Conn, but I am only seeing asian clam and eastern elliptio. At home, this is the combination found in our most polluted and trashed waterways, like the Rippowam River at downtown Stamford, or the Norwalk River at Ridgefield, which recently suffered an oil spill. The waterways around Raleigh appear to be very clean, so the lack of diversity and complete lack of southern species is very puzzling. At this point, I mostly suspect that sediment loading is responsible.

There is clearly a demand for recreational use of the lake if people are actively renting fishing boats and talking about their trips on fishing forums. A real reservoir can't have people boating on it. Again, it can't be half in and half out - they need to choose.

Finally, it is unwise to have a dammed reservoir downstream in close proximity to another dammed reservoir. Lake Wheeler is the primary drinking supply reservoir and lies just to the west. In a severe rain situation, it could take on too much water than it can handle, forcing management to vent water in a hurry. This surge of water quickly moves into Lake Benson, forcing them to vent as well. This happened on the Mississippi between a series of 4 dams and had catastrophic results. Hopefully, they have planned for this scenario and designed Benson's forced outflow system to keep pace with Wheeler's. It's difficult to tell what their capabilities are from Google Maps. If Wheeler shoves water into Benson faster than Benson can pass it along, Benson's dam may fail. The people who live in that trailer park below the dam would be in for very interesting day!

I really don't think they have thought this through from the beginning. On Monday night, I filmed a 4 hour Planning and Zoning meeting at home. The board has engaged in a 10 year future planning exercise and had Aquarion give a water resource management presentation. Aquarion is the regional water company that manages our 3 major reservoirs and several lesser ones. The level of control and coordination they are able to exercise between all their reservoirs is mind-blowing. They can cycle water between reservoirs across three watersheds laterally - I didn't even know that was possible. This also enables them to run a constant release program for downstream, keeping the lower Saugatuck and Mill Rivers running normally during heavy rain and drought. I noticed that they seemed immune to last summer's drought, that's why. Boating bans have kept asian clams out of all the reservoirs, for now.

In conclusion, I think Garner/Raleigh are being unrealistic about their use of Lake Benson for drinking supply and should release it as a recreational lake that people can freely boat on and swim in. Benson is configured for recreational use, not water supply. The things they would need to do to turn the lake into a real reservoir are extremely unlikely to happen, and it's too late for much of those.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by marauder » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:55 am

Excellent post, and it makes me rather sad that this is not more of a campaign issue. No one, aside from a few wildlife biologists and extreme animal rights advocates, really cares at all about the health of aquatic eco-systems and our watersheds. At least we aren't dealing with pollution here, but I have to believe that the immense amount of construction going on here is directly leading to our waterways being clogged with runoff sediment. Did you think that the creek (Sam's Branch?) at Legend Park was a little more clear? It was a bit small to have many species, but I did see some bluegill panfish.

Back on topic. I want to open up the possibility of delaying MOAB until the fall or next spring. I am having issues getting a hold of the property owners, and the alternate sites north of Raleigh/Durham may create some difficulty for my local friends as it'd be about an hour drive plus a hike in when they may only be available for a few hours at a time.

Is anyone interested in having a spring war the weekend of the 7th and 8th, possibly in Maryland, instead? Ben brought this up in another thread.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by DX » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:13 pm

Sam's Branch looked better with more gravel and less sand, but still with very unstable banks and little vegetation. Then again, it's not very large. It would be interesting to see if it is impacted by the development going up across the street. It's sad that more people aren't interested in environmental preservation there. Now would be the time, while things are just being built and before anything serious gets dumped in. The effects of PCBs, sewage, copper, heavy metals, etc. last for centuries. Much of the most damaging pollution in Conn took place from the Industrial Revolution to the mid-1870s, and we're still stuck with it.

It would be fine to me if MoAB is postponed in favor of having more solid venue status. Maybe Scott would be interested in holding Soakemore on the 7th-8th? Who knows how long the portables labyrinth will still be in place...you really need to experience it before it's gone.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by marauder » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:25 pm

If I don't get an answer back about Little Creek within a week then it's off the table.

*edit*

I think I found a really good option - http://tbg.carolinanature.com/brickhouse.html

I go hunting here in the fall. In April there will be no hunting going on. There are no trails, just a few dirt roads, wetlands, thick forest. It's very primitive. We could easily keep our vehicles there overnight and no one would bother us. I'll film some there after work.

from SUNY Binghamton: 549 miles / 8 hrs 30 min
from Redding, CT: 545 miles / 8 hrs 45 min
from Troy, MI: 697 miles / 11 hrs
from Bethesda, MD: 258 miles / 4 hrs 30 min

Half an hour closer to everyone than the Little Creek option.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by SEAL » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:11 pm

The hunting place looks pretty cool from what I can gather from the pictures and Google Maps. How does it compare to Little Creek? Would we be compromising by going there, or does it turn out to be better? And I'd go no matter how far it was. When you're driving all day, an extra half-hour doesn't make a difference.

I don't think I could attend a war on May 7-8. That's coming up on finals, and there are probably lots of other things going on.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by HBWW » Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:10 pm

I'm fine with rescheduling, but I need to retract the days I requested off work, so I need to know asap. Late March and early April is getting a bit crowded for me, with 3 nerf related events going on before the current MOAB schedule.

If we do reschedule and I find cheap flights, I may opt for that instead. Not sure. Flight prices seem to have gone up seasonally. The tickets for RDU jumped from $231 to $337 in a few weeks and I don't know where it's at now.

697 miles doesn't seem a whole lot worse than the 686 I go to get to Rob's though. They just seem to be on slower roads.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by marauder » Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:09 am

I visited the hunting grounds and was underwhelmed. There are some really nice tall grass fields, and semi-open areas, but the lowland forests are either very open so that ducks can find their way to the water, or supertangled in long narrow strips following the Flat river, a tributary of the Neuse.

There seems to be a major difference between lowland forests in Durham vs lowland forests in Clayton. Clayton is more sandy and also has lots of privet forests, which are easy to hide in, but are also not too thick or thorny to move through.

I am considering postponing and then holding the war once I've moved into Riverwood. If I do this, I will probably need some help making Riverwood thicker. There are some great ambush points, but visibility is high throughout a good portion of the battlefield. I'll take recommendations *cough* Rob *cough* for some cheap vegetation that I could purchase or dig up somewhere else and plant there.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by marauder » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:31 pm

*UPDATE*

War is on. I found a good, possibly better alternative.

Day fighting will mostly take place at Clemmons State Forest in Clayton. It's legal, free, and everyone can stay at my apartment, which is also free and pretty close to the State Forest.

Clemmons MOAB Preview

Night fighting on Saturday can occur at Little Creek after all, which should be pretty sweet. We can do long OHS from late Sat afternoon til after midnight.

Friday night we can fight behind my apartment. This is also along Little Creek, but upstream, so it's a bit smaller. There are some nice areas for night fighting which include high grass, dirt mounds, a pond, and forest buffers. It's not really that wide of an area, but it's a great combination. Some of our best battles in NC have been in places like my parents' yard, as SEAL pointed out.

More details to come. Start packing! Start asking questions. You'll need the intel. Especially if you're not on my team :lol:

I put a big red circle over the main battlefield on this Clemmons map. I calculated the area as roughly 6 acres, with extra room along the edges to refill, maneuver, etc. It's no longer this open, as the field has overgrown and now is a great mix of tall trees, tall grass, and random little trails -
Clemmons.JPG
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by DX » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:52 am

Due to 5 of us having financial difficulties right now, it may be best to postpone MoAB until summer or fall. As stated over the phone, I'd rather just suck up the heat and and humidity later vs not being able to go at all. We would also be able to campout at your new house and fight night rounds on-site.
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Re: MOAB 2016 (Official Thread)

Post by scottthewaterwarrior » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:29 pm

Even if I had been keeping up with this better and had seen the possibility for a Maryland war a couple weeks ago, I need a minimum of a month so that I can reserve the island and stuff. I will probably make a Soakamore planning thread in the next couple days. Ideally we should have late spring/early summer. Though it would be nice to have it mid summer/early fall as there is more underbrush on the island, there are several problems with this. The first is that it gets really hot and humid around then, which I am not able to handling no matter how much water I drink, and judging from last year, some of the people who claimed they could handle it weren't doing so good ether. The second is that while the portable labyrinth is currently still there, they are almost finished renovating Wood Acres school, so my guess is they will probably take it down within a few weeks of school letting out. The third is that I am planning on getting a part time job this summer, and may or may not be working weekends and it might be frowned upon to ask for time off after working for only a few weeks.

I have begun doing spring testing of blasters, my 2500 still has a slight check valve leak (it just goes back into the pump), but otherwise my 1500 and 2500 are fully operational and can be loaned out as I will probably use my Vindicator or 1000 for most rounds. I also have a 1000, 1200, and 10K, as well as a 1200 and 2100 that just need minor repairs (and maybe a light K mod too). So if anyone is worried about blasters, I can probably cover you.

I found the 2100 at a local, non-chain, thrift store for $4, it leaks a lot when fired, but I should be able to fix it. Of course at the moment fixing my families cars are the priority. I spent over three hours last weekend pulling the bumper off my moms car to remount the fog lights, and I think the SAAB I usually drive needs a new tie-rod barring. Fixing my 30+ broken water blasters is actually feeling a lot easier after working with cars.
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