Downpour 2013 - Official War Planning Thread

[SEAL]

What:
The original community water war! Hosted by myself and the Catskill Mountain SEALs, Downpour 2013 will be a full-featured, weekend-long war with the intentions of being as much fun as possible. This war will offer a good mix of hardcore fighting and casual (for us) yet intense fighting. We will try to allow as much fighting time as possible; my parents will bring food and supplies, so we can spend as much time at the field as possible. Night battles will be held as well. We are trying to get as many participants as possible, so if you live nearby and/or are interested and able to come, please do! Everybody is welcome, and each person will play a part in making this war worthwhile. I might be willing to hand out some free memorabilia to all participants as well. I hope to see you there!

When:
July 26th-28th

Where:
West Hurley Park (AKA "Dug Hill"), Hurley, NY [about two hours north of New York City, near the city of Kingston, which is off of Exit 19 on the NY Thruway (Interstate 87)]
As of now, camping will be at Kenneth L. Wilson State Park in Mt. Tremper, NY. This is where the night rounds will be held.

What to bring:
-Your standard and light primary(s)
-At least one XP blaster
-At least one "weird" blaster (basically something you wouldn't normally use in battle)
-Loaner blasters
-As many good-quality guests as you can
-Camping gear
-Towels, change of clothes, rain gear
-Bug spray
-Food (my parents will provide for us on Saturday and Sunday, but bring your own for Friday night)
-$25 to repay me for the camping fee

Schedule (subject to change):

Friday, July 26th:

Arrival time-nightfall - Dinner, hangout, setup, etc.
Nightfall - OHK and Zombies @ campground (other rounds to be decided on spot)

Saturday, July 27th:

8:00-9:00 - Wake up, go to Dug Hill, eat breakfast
9:00-10:30 - OHK @ Main Forest
10:40-11:00 - OHS @ Thunder Gulch (if the OHK game ends at least 20 minutes early, we'll have two rounds where the teams switch sides)
11:20-12:20 - CTF 10-flag (5 per team) @ Mirror Forest
12:25-12:55 - Lunch
13:00-13:30 - OHK @ Pines (light blasters only)
13:40-15:40 - OHS @ Mirror Forest (starts whenever the OHK round ends; end time doesn't change)
16:00-17:00 - Domination @ Lost Chasm
17:15-17:35 - OHS @ Unclimbable Rocks (XP-only)
17:45-18:00 - Team soakfest @ Dumping area (weird guns only)
18:15-19:15 - Pack up, go to Wilson campground
19:15-20:15 - Dinner, setup, etc.
20:30-21:30 - OHS @ campground
21:30-whenever - OHS switches to OHK (@ campground), end time flexible
After "whenever" - Hangout, campfire, etc.

Sunday, July 28th:

8:00-9:00 - Wake up, go to Dug Hill, eat breakfast
9:15-9:45 - Chaos OHK FFA @ Expanse
9:50-10:20 - CTF @ Thunder Gulch (light blasters only)
10:25-10:40 - HTL @ Junkyard Mound (XP-only)
10:55-11:10 - HTL @ Junkyard Mound (XP-only)
11:25-11:55 - Soak 'n' Destroy @ Junkyard
12:00-12:30 - Lunch
12:45-13:45 - OHS @ Thunder Gulch (XP-only)
14:00-14:30 - VIP @ Main trail area
14:30-15:00 - Setup for next round
15:00-18:00 - Multi-stage objective game @ Entire park
18:15-19:15 - Pack up, go to Wilson campground
19:15-20:15 - Dinner, setup, etc.
20:30-21:00 - Sideswitch game @ campground (weird blasters only)
21:15-22:00 - Manhunt @ campground
After 22:00 - Hangout, campfire, etc.

Monday, July 29th:

Possible games after all awake, to be decided on spot
End of war

Detailed Description of Games:

Friday:

Arrival time-nightfall:
Self-explanitory.

Nightfall:
OHK will be of the standard variety, starting points TBD (I will work them out when I go to the campsite on Friday night); time limit will be 20-30 minutes. Zombies will also be standard, with one starting zombie. Starting zombie must have weak blaster, and the humans must start away from each other. If a zombie is hit, they must freeze for 30 seconds, and if a human gets hit, they must also freeze for 30 seconds before becoming a zombie. Game ends when everyone becomes infected.

Saturday:

8:00-9:00:
Self-explanitory.

9:00-10:30:
Same style OHK as the first round of '11. Starting points are on trail near far west entrance (near old tires), and on trail intersection near Junkyard. Game ends when one team is eliminated, but if time limit is reached before this occurs, game will be called and decided on points.

10:40-11:00:
Continuation of the classic Thunder Gulch rounds. As stated in the schedule, if the OHK round ends at least 20 minutes early, there will be two rounds where teams switch sides. Starting/Spawn points are on each side of the gulch, as per custom. There is no respawn time; respawning is done by touching the spawn point/writing down the name of who killed you. Players cannot wander more than ~200 feet from the fighting area.

11:20-12:20:
Each team starts with 5 flags at their base. Flag locations must be made clear to each team; any attempt to hide flags by either team will result in the ejection of the offender from the game. Bases are in the center of Thunder Gulch and near the Island in Lost Chasm, with respawn points on the sides away from the fighting. Respawn time is 1 minute. Team with the most flags at the end of the match wins. Players cannot carry more than 1 flag each.

12:25-12:55:
Self-explanitory.

13:00-13:30:
Standard half-hour OHK. Teams start on the trail near the far west entrance (near tires) and in a clearing near a large fallen tree (on the opposite side of the pine forest vs. the former). Players cannot wander more than ~100 feet from the edge of the Pine Forest. As with the first OHK, if the time limit is reached before one team is elminated, the round ends and is decided by points.

13:40-15:40:
Standard long-distance OHS. Starting points are on either end of Mirror Forest; near a rock pile on the west end, and near two large trees on the east end. Respawning must be done behind your team, and away from the action (no spawn points). Respawn time is 2 minutes. If an entire team is wiped out, both teams are encouraged to spread apart and regroup.

16:00-17:00:
There are 5 capture points layed out in a linear fashion, which each team can claim. Points are, from west to east: near the banks of a small pond, small clearing at west end of the Narrows, flat section in Narrows, boulder near the middle swamp, and fallen tree in fern area. Teams start on each end; at the start of the round, each point is neutral, and must be captured. There will be a flag at each location; team possession is defined by either flag up or flag down (neutral points simply have the flag in its starting location). Points must be claimed in order; a team cannot send someone all the way around to capture points behind enemy lines. Respawning takes places at the point behind the last one captured (for example, if you've captured points up to #4, you can spawn at #3), and there is no respawn time. If a team only has one captured point, they must walk ~100 feet away from said point to respawn, for a time of 1 minute. If a team captures all points, the game goes into sudden death, and it becomes OHK for them because they have nowhere left to respawn. If the team recaptures the point, any who are eliminated may come back into the game. The winner is the team who has the most points captured, but a team can also win by capturing all points an eliminating the entire opposition.

17:15-17:35:
Standard 20-minute OHS. Starting/Spawn points are on one of the hills flanking the trail (where we fought the last round at '12), and near the concrete block in the middle of the trail leading towards the dump. No respawn time. Players are not encouraged to wander more than ~200 feet from the fighting area.

17:45-18:00:
Self-explanitory.

18:15-19:15:
Self-explanitory.

19:15-20:15:
Self-explanitory.

20:30-21:30:
Standard OHS. Starting/Spawn points TBD on spot.

21:30-whenever:
OHS simply becomes OHK with no transition. Standard rules.

After "whenever":
Self-explanitory. Bed time before 23:00 is strongly recommended.

Sunday:

8:00-9:00:
Self-explanitory.

9:15-9:45:
Similar to the round at MOAB, but a free-for-all and OHK. Players all start unarmed and at equal distances from a clearing strewn with various water weaponry. Uses standard OHK rules.

9:50-10:20:
Standard 2-flag CTF. Bases are on each side of a portion of Thunder Gulch; one in the clearing in the middle of where the trail splits, and the other in a clearing-ish area marked by an X (I made it with branches), with respawn points ~100 feet back from each. Respawn time is 1 minute. Once again, both teams must be aware of each flag's location.

10:25-10:40:
Typical HTL. Defense cannot leave mound. Spawn point for offense is down the road by the concrete blocks, with respawn time of 30 seconds.

10:55-11:10:
Same as above; side switch.

11:25-11:55:
Symmetrical SnD. Teams start on each side of the Junkyard area, on the edge of the clearing. These are also used as spawn points. Each team starts with a "bomb" that they must bring to the enemy's target, where they must plant it and activate the timer for 1 minute. Each target is placed on either end of the Junkyard area. A coin toss/rock-paper-scissors will determine which team gets which target. Bombs are disarmed if the other team deactivates the timer. The player who disarmed it may take it into the middle of the battlefield (near the rock piles), but nowhere else. Any player who's carrying the bomb must drop it if hit. Anybody can pick it up, but the opposing team cannot take it anywhere other than the center of the battlefield. Running off with an opposing team's bomb will result in ejection from the game. The first team to "blow up" (in other words, successfully protect the timer for 1 minute) their target wins. Players cannot travel more than ~200 feet from the perimeter of the Junkyard area.

12:00-12:30:
Self-explanitory.

12:45-13:45:
Standard OHS. Starting points are on each end of Thunder Gulch. No spawn points; players must simply stand away from the action behind their team's lines for 2 minutes. Players cannot wander more than ~100 feet from the top of each side.

14:00-14:30:
Each team has a VIP. While he/she is still in the game, everyone on the team has unlimited lives. The VIP only has one life, if he/she is eliminated, everyone on the team is now subject to elimination. While a team's VIP is still in play, everyone on it must respawn by standing away from the action for 1 minute. Players cannot wander more than ~300 feet from the fighting area.

14:30-15:00:
We set up obejctive points and go over everything.

15:00-18:00:
Multi-stage objective-based game. There are two teams, which will be referred to as Team 1 and Team 2. Team 1 starts either in the pavilion or the parking lot (depending on pavilion availability), and Team 2 starts in the Main Forest near the hills where the last round of '12 was held. In the first stage, Team 2 must defend an object placed on the northern hill (likely a flag or something). HTL-type rules are used here; Team 1, being the offensive team, has unlimited lives and must simply respawn back at the edge of the forest for 30 seconds. Team 2 players have only one life and must stand to the side if eliminated. Once Team 1 touches the object, the first phase is over.
In the second phase, Team 1 is assigned a VIP, who they must protect from Team 2. The VIP only has one life, but other members of the team have infinite lives, and must respawn by standing away from the action for 1 minute if hit. Team 2 must walk to Thunder Gulch to begin the second phase. Once the VIP is hit, the third phase begins.
This phase is based on Soak 'n' Destroy, where each team must go to assigned bases and protect them. Team 1's base is in the Pine Forest, and Team 2's base is in the Junkyard. Each team gets a bomb to deploy at the enemy's base. If anyone is hit, they must go back to their base and respawn for 2 minutes (respawning should be done ~200 feet from the base itself). If a bomb carrier gets hit, he/she must drop the bomb and go back to respawn. Unlike the previous SnD round, members of one team cannot pick up the opposing team's bomb. Bombs are not timed; they must simply be placed on the target area for the phase to end.
The fourth phase is similar to Domination, where each team must fight to control 5 or 6 capture points: Pine Forest, Thunder Gulch, the Junkyard, Lost Chasm, the Unclimbable Rocks, and the Pavilion (only if it's not occupied). Rules are similar to the previous Domination round, except that the points don't have to be captured in a linear fashion. Team 1 possession is defined by flag up, and Team 2 possession is defined by flag down. Respawning must be done at a captured point, roughly 100 feet away with a respawn time of 1 minute. If the point is captured by the opposition before a player finishes respawning, the player may still respawn there. If all capture points are possessed by one team, the other team is subject to elimination. The entire game ends when one team is eliminated. If said team manages to recapture a point, any eliminated players may rejoin the game after waiting for 1 minute.

18:15-19:15:
Self-explanitory.

19:15-20:15:
Self-explanitory.

20:30-21:00:
If a player is hit, he/she must respawn for 30 seconds before joining the other team. The game ends when everybody is on one team.

21:15-22:00:
Similar to Zombies. There is a hunting team and a hiding team (for lack of a better term); the former should have half the amount as the latter. The hiding team is given a 5-minute head start to go hide. If someone on the hiding team is hit, they join the hunting team. If someone on the hunting team gets hit, they have to respawn for 1 minute away from the action. The hunting team starts at a TBD location, and the hiding team can go wherever to start. Hunting team wins if everyone who's hidden gets hit, and the hiding team wins if they still have at least one player when time is up.

After 22:00:
Self-explanitory. Bedtime restrictions are no longer really necessary, since there will likely be no fighting the next day. (Though it is still recommended for those who have long drives ahead.)

Monday:

End of war. It's possible that rounds will be held (likely just OHK or OHS), but only if people can wake up early enough and aren't tired from the weekend's fighting. Any rounds would be held at Wilson campground.

Attendance:

Drenchenator
SEAL
Firebird
chief
Duxburian
CA99
scottthewaterwarrior

Total: 7

Facebook event page


Now that the Spring opener is over, it's time to start talking about this. What I would like to do is get a date early enough so I can try to reserve the pavilion at Dug Hill, that way we can spend the night there, and we won't have to worry about getting a spot at Wilson. It would also mean that we could have the night rounds at Dug Hill, and we wouldn't waste time going in between locations. However that will depend on how early we can get a date, because people tend to reserve the pavilion pretty early. So I need you guys to vote as soon as possible. If we can't do that, we'll just camp at Wilson and have the night rounds there. I don't really want to use Onteora Lake this time around, as it isn't really a good venue for our types of wars. Perhaps we can fight there someday when we get a lot of people, but not this time.

I will work on the schedule when I get the chance, but feel free to pitch in your ideas. I want to try and make the fighting as good as possible. I want most of the rounds to be like the first Thunder Gulch battles and the last round of Downpour 2012.

Let's make this the best war ever! Start by voting in the Doodle poll. DO IT.

Outdated information. If you have any questions, please post your concerns or PM me.

~SEAL

[HBWW]

Same drill as with the League Season Opener (and previous community events) for me, unfortunately. Which means my attendance status probably won't be in until last-minute if I can make it. (Most likely after the Doodle calendar is filled out.) Consider me as either maybe attending, or as not-attending for now.

[SEAL]

I know that the war in DC has priority right now, but Scott hasn't been online in a while, and who says you can't plan for two separate wars at the same time? (Meaning planning at the same time, not holding the wars at the same time, obviously.) Right, so earlier this week my brother (chief on here) scouted out Dug Hill for fighting areas and to brainstorm game ideas. Here's a list of games so far (in the order which I thought of them):

Rivalry (Saturday):
Long-distance OHK @ Dug Hill Main Forest (Just like the first time in 2011; I'll probably give it an hour and a half time limit.)
Long-distance CTF @ Mirror Forest (I want to do this with like 5 flags per team.)
2-hour OHS @ Dug Hill Mirror Forest (Pretty self-explanitory.)
20-minute OHS @ Thunder Gulch (We can't fight at Dug Hill without at least one round here; I'll probably hold two rounds where the teams switch sides.)
Short-distance OHK @ TBD (Not sure where to hold this yet.)
Team soakfest @ campground (This would be an end-of-day thing, just like at MOAB.)
1-hour OHS @ campground (Night round.)
OHK @ campground (Night round; probably shorter than the above.)
TBD round @ Lost Chasm (We need to have at least one round there; I'm just not sure what kind yet.)

Non-rivalry (Friday night & Sunday):
CTF @ Thunder Gulch (This would be shorter-range than the rivalry CTF round, and probably of the standard variety.)
HTL @ TBD flat area (It would be done once for each team. I want to have it in a flat area because we've never played HTL in a flat area before, and I want to see what it'll be like.)
Zombies @ campsite (At night, obviously.)
OHK FFA @ Dug Hill Expanse (More on this below; I'm not entirely sure where I want to have it yet.)
OHK @ campground (This will probably be our warm-up round on Friday night when everyone arrives.)

Now the job is to work all this (and maybe add/take away a few things) into a schedule. I've got it about half-done so far, and hopefully I'll have it finished soon. As you can see I gave names to certain locations; the Main Forest is basically the whole area south of Thunder Gulch, and Mirror Forest is the area north of it (so named because it looks so similar to the Main Forest). The "Expanse", is a name I gave to the open-ish area that stretches across the Main Forest. Lost Chasm is an epic new place I found that dwarfs Thunder Gulch and even the Valley of Death.

Some of these rounds might be played with lower-caliber guns, but I'm not extremely keen on doing them. True, anything-goes rounds do get rather repetitive in terms of weaponry, but with smaller guns, I notice that two things tend to happen: Someone getting hit might not feel the stream and not call the hit, or someone might use that as an excuse to call a hit on someone even if it wasn't, saying: "Well the stream is too small for you to feel, but it definitely hit you." For this reason I'd rather just do anything-goes rounds, but for the sake of keeping things fresh, I'll still do a few restrictive rounds (just not 100% sure which ones yet).

As for the OHK FFA round, that will be similar to what marauder did at MOAB with the guns in boxes. I read The Hunger Games recently, and it inspired me to have a round that's sort of based on the "Games" in the story. The MOAB round was already kind of similar to it, but I'll take things a step further by making this round a free-for-all, and OHK. It should be pretty interesting at any rate, and I'm still working on exactly how to set it up. I'm almost positive that it will be the first round of Sunday. Hopefully it'll be a blast.

So yeah, that's how things are going with this war; any input would be welcome. I'm probably going to squeeze in one or two more games, but I'm not sure what kinds yet. Please feel free to make suggestions. And lastly, please vote in the Doodle calendar if you think you know when you'll be available! If I don't get any replies soon then I'll start raping everyone's inboxes with 'invitations' until you guys come! Muahahahahahaha...

[HBWW]

How exciting!

I may be able to fill out the Doodle calendar in a few weeks. Still job searching so there's a lot of uncertainty in my schedule. (That calendar is huge! You're literally available all summer for this, aren't you?)

Edit: Any weapon specialty rounds such as AP or WW only?

[SEAL]

I won't be available all summer, but I will see to it that I'll be available whenever everyone can do this. As for specialty rounds, I addressed that in my post above yours; like I said, I'm not extremely keen on them, but I will do a few just to keep things fresh so it's not all CPS + SS 300s all the time. I will probably do AP-only and XP-only, and possibly WW-only or something else like post-Larami-only (which would probably be almost the same as WW-only considering how few good Hasbro soakers there are) or something.

I haven't done much work on the schedule, but once my Spring semester is over I'll have a lot more time for such things. I just hope that we can get enough interest going. My initial goal for this war was to have each year yield a higher turnout than the last, but 2012 broke that. If even less people show up this year I might stop hosting it. But for now, hopefully people will take notice and be interested in coming. I think I'll make a Facebook event for this when I have time.

[SEAL]

I worked out a schedule. It's a tad rough at this point, but I should iron it out within the next month or two.

I included it in the first post, but here it is again in case you don't notice:

Friday, ???:

Arrival time-nightfall - Dinner, hangout, setup, etc.
Nightfall - OHK and Zombies @ campground (other rounds to be decided on spot)

Saturday, ???:

8:00-9:00 - Wake up, go to Dug Hill, eat breakfast
9:00-10:30 - OHK @ Main Forest
10:30-10:50 - OHS @ Thunder Gulch (if the OHK game ends at least 20 minutes early, we'll have two rounds where the teams switch sides)
11:00-12:00 - CTF 10-flag (5 per team) @ Mirror Forest
12:00-12:30 - Lunch
12:30-13:00 - OHK @ TBD
13:00-15:00 - OHS @ Mirror Forest (starts whenever the OHK round ends; end time doesn't change)
15:30-16:30 - Domination @ Lost Chasm
16:45-17:15 - OHS @ TBD
17:30-17:45 - Team soakfest @ Pavilion area (if occupied, round will be moved to TBD)
18:00-19:00 - Pack up, go to Wilson campground
19:15-20:15 - Dinner, setup, etc.
20:30-21:30 - OHS @ campground
21:30-whenever - OHS switches to OHK (@ campground), end time flexible
After "whenever" - Hangout, campfire, etc.

Sunday, ???:

8:00-9:00 - Wake up, go to Dug Hill, eat breakfast
9:15-9:45 - Chaos OHK FFA @ Expanse
9:45-10:15 - CTF @ Thunder Gulch
10:15-10:30 - HTL @ TBD flat area
10:45-11:00 - HTL @ TBD flat area (side switch)
11:15-11:45 - Soak 'n' Destroy @ TBD
12:00 - Lunch, end of war

Notes: OHK games all end when one team is eliminated; if time limit expires, game will be called and will be decided on points

Hopefully we can make it work, because it looks really awesome and I'm rather proud of it. The least amount of rounds we'd have would be 17! I have to do some more scouting at Dug Hill to pick out places where we can hold some of these rounds (the ones I marked "TBD"). Also, some of these rounds will be weaponry-restrictive, like AP-only, BBT-only, and XP-only. I'm not sure which ones yet, but you guys can throw in your opinions.

Now, we need people to start filling out the calendar. I really want to get a date for this as soon as possible. Perhaps I should just message everybody who might be able to come. Once I get a definite date, I want to setup a Facebook event page for this. Hopefully that way I can get more people to come. I'm pretty sure Bailey will be able to come, and I know a few other people who might be interested. I can see this war being incredibly epic if everything turns out the way I'm hoping.

[SEAL]

Time to get serious with this. We need to get a date as soon as possible, so anybody who thinks that they can come should enter when they're available on the Doodle calendar I made.

I'm also going to start seriously planning. Tomorrow I'm going to try to go to Dug Hill for like the fifth time (and it won't be the last time) to continue scouting out areas for games and how to set them up. I learned at Soakemore that it's good to plan things well ahead of time or else we're all going to be standing around arguing about where to fight, what rules, what teams, etc. I'm also wondering if I should make this two whole days instead of one. Downpour has always been Friday night, all of Saturday, and half of Sunday, but recent wars have been ending on Monday morning. Maybe I will do the same here, as long as there are enough people remaining to fight. If that's going to be the case, it looks like I'll have to come up with even more games.

DX said that he probably won't do Waterbridge this year, so this is going to be the next major war coming up. I'm thinking July will be the best time to do it, but it depends on people's schedules.

[marauder]

Unfortunately I won't be able to make a war until Christmas break, which probably means the only war I'll be able to make is Frozen Fury. Good luck with this though, I always thought Dug Hill has a lot of potential, especially if you could camp out there instead of at Wilson.

So yeah, that's my planning advice at the moment, see if you can camp out at Dug Hill.

[HBWW]

For the time being, my attendance status will be "not attending" until further notice. Sorry about that, but Soakemore has really worn me out and I have things to get done.

[SEAL]

I'm going to throw out a date here. How does July 19th-21st sound? Also, I updated the schedule (see first post) so tell me what you think of it. I still have to figure out rules and stuff for some of the rounds, but it's looking pretty good so far.

I am excited about this war. I really, really hope that we can get a good turnout and that nothing will go wrong this time.

[HBWW]

If I have a job/steady income by then, and can take the days off that I need to, I will try to fly there. (I may be able to just use the weekend; fly Friday evening and return Sunday evening) Officially, I'm still not attending, but I'm not going to keep these doors closed if I can help it. Always worth considering the possibilities since I managed to make it to two community wars that I didn't completely expect to be able to make.

However, my friend is scheduling a gathering on July 20th (going to the beach; I will definitely be bringing some of my arsenal there but none of the good CPS's), so if Downpour is that weekend, I'd be forced to pick and choose. I will not however, ask you to reschedule Downpour around me since I'm still officially not attending until I have that income I need to pay for a plane ticket. (However, once I have steady income and can attend Downpour, I will ask you to pick another weekend unless it's too late to reschedule or too inconvenient for you.)

[SEAL]

Well the other option is the 26th-28th. DX isn't sure if he can make the 19th-21st either, so we'll have to see what's what. At this point I'm mainly trying to pick a date that works for DX, Scott, and Drenchenator, since they seem to be the ones who are most likely to attend. Even if you can't come, feel free to pitch in ideas.

Which reminds me, how do you guys feel about specialty rounds? I talked to DX about them on Skype last night, and he doesn't really like them very much. How do the rest of you feel? I mean, I'd just as soon not play them (though I still want to do XP-only, so that's staying), because I have my complaints about fighting with low-output blasters, but I included them because it seemed like most people liked doing them. I guess I can compromise and only do XP-only and maybe small-CPS-only (which I do like). Unless someone really wants to do a bunch of specialty rounds, I'll do that. I just want to make the rounds as fun as possible for everybody, and I'm happy to change the schedule if someone doesn't like the idea of doing something (and has a good reason), just as long as it's not during the war itself.

Once we get a definite date (it's going to have to be soon), I am going to call the town of Hurley to ask them about reserving the pavilion. We have friends living there who we can pay to reserve it, but first we'll have to see if it's reserved already. If it is, the schedule stays the same and we just camp at Wilson.

[HBWW]

I only enjoy them as a break to the standard games. I don't think there's any other way to escape the fact that every single standard water war takes place with big CPS's and nothing else is really effective. One person with a CPS 2000 and nothing else can do as much as 2-3 people with lower range blasters, water balloons, refill bottles, and all sorts of other things, assuming skill levels are very close.

Small CPS gets tricky when people try to bring the 1500 into the mix. I personally don't think it qualifies as a small CPS, even though it is competitive with k-modded CPS's.

Need to get others' opinions on specialized water weaponry games. I think DX is the only one who shows a strong disliking towards them.

Anyway, I will fill out the Doodle Calendar if I get said job. Problem is that some events with friends still haven't been scheduled this summer yet, but I will definitely try to prioritize Downpour over these events if I have a good chance of going.

[marauder]

I am excited that y'all are getting back to 1hk games. I really miss those and I look forward to seeing the results.

[the oncoming storm]

My thoughts on small CPS only rounds is that weapons must remain stock, I see no difference between a 1000/1200/2100k that shoots 45' and a stock CPS 1500/2500 hitting that same range. Maybe a 2000/300 banned round or 2 could be done instead, to force people to try other primary's and put everyone on equal terms weapons wise.

[SEAL]

Well I allow K-modded guns because their output is much less than the next size up, so they aren't as threatening as their high ranges suggest (I know this from experience). 1500s may be small in size, but their power puts them in a different class (I mean, the 2000 isn't a very large blaster either). When I say small CPS, I mean guns like the 1000, 1200, 2100, Splashzooka, etc. A 2000/300 banned round sounds pretty interesting for a shorter round. Perhaps I'll throw one in. I don't like low-output blaster specialty rounds either, so if nobody feels strongly about them, I'd just as soon remove most of them from the list.

Anyone who can make it should try to bring as many friends as possible. Just make sure that they will be fine with our style of fighting, and that they won't hold us up too much. I plan to start a Facebook event for this when I get a date; hopefully I'll be able to get a bunch of guests from my end. I want to have at least 10 people total.

[marauder]

I would like to try an XP only round once, but I don't think it'd be something I'd regularly be interested in. If my Pool Pumper Blaster was working that would be my primary. The only XP I have anymore is a modded XP 70 and I would fight with that just to see how I did. It's not as good as a lot of other XPs, but it's definitely better than a stock 70 and I can't wait to try it out. I replaced the stock PC with a PC from a 110 which increased PC capacity and shot time by 17% which is not a ton, but is a noticeable difference. I also put a waterballoon filler over top of the stock nozzle. It's the perfect size to field fill waterballoons, and if I used it I'd probably alternate between throwing balloons and shooting. I'd definitely be packing some extra water.

[DX]

The difference between a stock 1500 or 2500 hitting 45ft vs a 10/12/21K hitting 45ft is actually huge. The output of the 1500/2500 even at "5x" is higher than the 1000/1200/2100, with significantly better lamination. In some cases, especially when there is wind, a stock 1000/1200/2100 is actually better than a K. The better lamination can be a decisive factor even among those guns (10K vs 12K, 12K vs 1200, LBW Pavilion CTF battle). The 1500 and 2500 will also outlast all but the 12K and 1200. Because of these factors, the 1500 and 2500 are a class above the medium CPS. I've yet to hear anyone actually try to get a 1500 into a medium CPS round anyway.

A no 2000s round exposes one issue in my arsenal where I have nothing between it and the medium CPS's. I actually have no idea what I'd use for that, maybe a 300.

I don't hate the specialized weaponry games, they just run against my long term arsenal goals, which are to support far fewer models and more backups of the same model. I'd like to support 4-5 models. The 2000/2500 and 1000 cover anything goes and medium rounds. They are easily acquired, easily replaced, and easily sold if necessary. They cover the majority of rounds - Anything goes, no big CPS, medium guns, OHK/OHS/CTF, cold weather, limited water, long rounds, short rounds.

With other types, it starts to get messy. An APH covers AP and maybe medium, but not BBT or XP. A 300 dominates AP, but not medium, BBT, or XP and it's kinda fragile. A Gorgon covers AP and BBT, maybe medium, and not XP. A 150 covers everything except BBT, but is underpowered. A 250 removes some drawbacks of a 150, but has its own set of disadvantages. For classic I'd be sitting out. Basically, in order to cover AP only, AP only no 300s, Medium only no CPS, BBT only, XP only, and Classic only, I'd need 5-6 more guns.

I really think we should come to an agreement as to what types of gun restrictions we want to keep doing in the future. Not everyone has all these things or wants to maintain them. I've had a large loaner arsenal in the past, but that is not sustainable going into the future.

[marauder]

Rob, your reply was a bit confusing at first. If I understand you right you are saying that 1500s and 2500s aren't medium, but 1200s, 1000s, and 2100s are. That was confusing to me because it seems like everyone else has been casually referring to those type of guns as light or small CPS, and thus when I think of "small CPS only" games I think of people using 1000s and Vindicators, and not whatever is below that (600s? Lightnings?).

I don't mean to make an issue out of how we define "large," "medium," and "small" CPS or other guns; I don't really care, but it is nice when we are all using the same terminology, because otherwise it gets confusing when we talk about what kind of rounds we want to have.

Your goal of keeping your arsenal based off multiple copies of just a few models is wise for a number of reasons. You should always have a spare in case one gun goes down, you should always have spare parts, and you build up an incredible amount of experience with just a few guns. With that being said, my advise for arsenal building always comes down to 2 things: own what you are good with and own what fits the battles you fight. I think you can actually break your arsenal down to 4, maybe 5 models if you wanted to.

#1 CPS 2000. Do I even have to say why?
#2 CPS 1200. Best field life of the 1200/2100/1000 line.
#3 Gorgon. You and I both agree that the best AP guns are the 300 and the Gorgon. The 300 is more powerful but the Gorgon is better for your arsenal for a number of reasons. First, it counts for AP only and BBT only rounds. Second, you are very good with the Gorgon and your fighting style is definitely not heavy tanker. Third, having multiple Gorgons takes up less space in the house than having multiple 300s. Fourth, Gorgons are more durable than 300s, you'll spend less time fixing them up, getting kinks out of hoses, repairing broken levers, etc. before wars. Fifth, Gorgons are much better loaner guns than 300s, and although it's not your goal to have a loaner arsenal (I agree) you still should have some guns that you can loan out if you need to. Lastly, multiple 300s will cost you a lot more than multiple Gorgons. If you ever want to get more than 2 Gorgons it may take you some time, but the fact that they are very durable and don't cost $120 + a massive amount on shipping makes it worth it, after all it's not like you are going to need 3 Gorgons asap anyway.
#4 XP 150. When I think of people who use the XP 150 I think of Commander Dave and older warriors who talked about it all the time, but honestly I don't think there is anyone better with an XP 150 than you are - and I've fought a lot of players with 150s. It would be foolish not to have a gun smaller than the Gorgon in your arsenal for multiple reasons. Most of us agree that HTL and several other battles are best off when one side has a firepower disadvantage. The 150 is powerful enough to still be useful but small enough to count as a smaller class. The 150 is also a good loaner.

If you wanted to add another model to that I would suggest the 2500 since the parts are compatible with the 2000 and since it somewhat fills the space between the 2000 and 1200. No one is saying we should have classic-only league rounds except the oncoming storm.

[HBWW]

All I have to say is, I will not be opening any PC cases just to remove any k-mods for any game. I still prefer k-modded over stock despite the poorer lamination. The primary advantage to keeping it stock is that the pull valve lasts longer.

I've yet to hear anyone actually try to get a 1500 into a medium CPS round anyway.

You joked about it at Soakemore lol.