2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Discussion of past, present, and future water war events.
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2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by SEAL » Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:44 pm

This thread will contain a list of all community wars planned for the year 2013. I think this is a good thread to have, since we've been talking about having a LOT of wars this upcoming year.

List of currently planned wars:
MOAB (hosted by marauder): March 22nd-25th, Clayton, NC
Soakemore (hosted by scottthewaterwarrior): May 24th-27th, Bethesda, MD
Downpour 2013 (hosted by SEAL): July 26th-28th, West Hurley, NY
Frozen Fury 2013 (hosted by Duxburian): December 7th-8th, Easton, CT

I'm not going to include the road trip because it doesn't really count as a war. I don't know how many of the wars on the list will end up happening, but I listed them anyway. Small meetups such as the one last weekend and the one at Ulster Landing don't count as community wars. An official community war must be a planned event with at least six (6) people.

DX and I talked about having an "NY vs. CT" war that was going to be a more hardcore, rivalry-type war with the same teams (it was going to be my brothers and I vs. DX and wetmonkey, along with whoever else joined), but that never really fell through, and I don't think we should plan it for this year. Additionally, I have something else in mind, but it would require more people than the amount that currently show up to these wars, and also very serious players...

This thread should be used ONLY for discussion on the wars themselves, not for discussion on specific war details such as schedules, gametypes, etc.

Edit: Unstickied now that all wars in 2013 are over.
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by Fishfan » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:10 pm

Hmm, I might want to host a war in FL. :D
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by SEAL » Mon Dec 17, 2012 12:39 pm

We might actually be able to work that into our road trip. I need to rework our route when I get the chance, and I could include your place if you're serious about that. First, you need to find a good location, then invite as many people as you think would be interested. Let me know if you're willing to do it.
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by the oncoming storm » Mon Dec 17, 2012 1:32 pm

Since you plan to meet m4 and spend the night in Knoxville during the road trip we can see about a battle at victor ash park it has a disk golf course we can battle on. And I'm sure I could come and maybe bring some friends
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by Fishfan » Mon Dec 17, 2012 2:57 pm

I'm not sure, when's this road trip?
Also, what about hydrowar?
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by SEAL » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:43 pm

Fishfan: We haven't decided on a date yet, but when I get a chance, I'll come up with something. Check this thread for details. What do you mean by hydrowar? That's marauder's website, not a war.

I'm not sure if I should add road trip battles to the list. I guess they could be considered community wars, but I'll have to see what we all can work out.
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by marauder » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:42 pm

Let's do one of these over Spring Break.
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by Fishfan » Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:33 pm

I thought maruader hosted a war?
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by marauder » Tue Dec 18, 2012 3:19 pm

Hydropocalypse, it was just a one year thing probably. I'm moving to MS next April, and MS is very far away from basically everyone else.
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by atvan » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:29 pm

the oncoming storm wrote:it has a disk golf course we can battle on.
:facepalm:

I really have to get to at least one of these next year. I know I said that this year as well, but part of the problem was that two roadtrips prevented me from going to the closest one, Downpour. So here's hoping it works out this year.
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by Fishfan » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:48 pm

^^ Thats what it was, sorry. Does MS stand for mississippi? (Can't remember select state abbreviatons, this is one of them) Then you won't be too far from me.
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by marauder » Wed Dec 19, 2012 7:29 pm

MS is Mississippi. It might look close on a map, but Mississippi State University is 10 hours away from Orlando, FL. It's a long drive. The closest major cities to me will be Memphis (2 and a half), and Atlanta and New Orleans (both 4). I think the Oncoming Storm would be the closest member to me, and he'd still be over 5 hours away. Currently, in NC Scott is the closest member to me, but he's still 5 hours away. The South is big, but we have few members here.
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by marauder » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:31 pm

I want to focus on one specific question concerning our upcoming wars - What do YOU want next year?

What was good that you want to continue? What do you want to avoid this year? What new things do you want to try? Basically, this will help us plan better. I'll start us off.

Shorter Distance to the battlefield
We spent a lot of time this year just traveling to our battlegrounds. Shortening our morning commutes would give us much more playing time. Even the commute from the campground to the lake at Umstead was further out than ideal. I see the ideal situation as camping at/on our battleground.

Less Hold the Line
Close to 1 out of every 4 rounds we played was Hold the Line or a similar attack/defend variant. Certain situations and battlefields (eg our last 3 v 2 war) are more suited to this type of battle than others, and so we played it more. Thus part of this will be picking a battle ground that has a lot more to offer than good defensive positions.

Denser Foliage
Ridgewood had thick reeds. Dug Hill has that thicket that Scott hid in during the 1hk round. At Vermin War 12 we had dense underbrush surrounding the concrete columns of an old dilapidated mill. Not only were these great hiding locations, but they facilitated stealth of movement as well. If you can spot the enemy from a long way off it is much more difficult to do any kind of valuable movement without the enemy countering. Consider the 1hk round at Hydropocalypse, or the 1hk AP only rounds at Downpour '11. We might as well have been fighting out in a field with scattered bushes, you could see everything. It was impossible to disappear, ambush, split your forces without being seen, climb a tree without being spotted, etc. Some people expressed that they did not want to fight in the woods behind my house because of briars. I seriously hope that those people have gotten over their fear of briars, branches, etc. I would rather have a soakfest in a semi-open/high visibility area than play one hit scores on the same type of battlefield. I am dead serious about that. It all comes down to this: more movement and less "Mexican standoffs."

Capture the Flag (in small doses)
We played capture the flag twice this year out of 8 days worth of community wars, or in other words, 1 capture the flag round out of every 4 days of fighting. I think this is great. I love capture the flag, but it's so intense, I think it's best kept in small doses like we've been doing.

More about the players, less about the numbers
I am very glad that Tony, Danny, and others were able to be involved in our community wars, but I think it's best if we only invite people who can keep up with the rest of us. That doesn't mean deny someone if they ask to come, just don't invite people that would have difficulty playing how we like to play. There is a huge difference between 9 and 13 years old.

No Pistol Rounds
Again, I am glad that we got to use pistols this year but some things are better off done only once.

Night Battles
The night battles at Downpour '11 and Hydropocalypse were some of my favorite out of any we have played. I'd like to fight at night again, preferably some place that's somewhat wooded. Yes, I know it may be difficult, but it will be a lot of fun. So if we do this, you have to be cool with it, no complaining about briars (wear long pants) etc.

Different Teams
This has nothing to do with the rivalry, but with the other rounds played. I went back and looked at all the rounds and realized DX and I fight A LOT against Keith and John. I can post the stats later, but DX almost always had myself or SEAL on his team.

Less Powerful Guns for More Experienced Players
I have been suggesting this for a while now. We have developed a pattern where more experienced players use more powerful guns and end up absolutely destroying lesser experienced players with less powerful guns. Obviously, if you've been around a long time you probably have a better arsenal. I'm not asking that we permanently handicap that. I think it should be honored. However, I think it'd be fun and more of a challenge if Scott, DX, myself, and SEAL used less powerful blasters once in a while. Perhaps one round per war. This is why I used my XXP 275 at our meet up.

More Launchers, waterballoons, and Home Mades
These have been basically nonfactors in our battles up to this point. Honestly, I am not interested in playing Hold the Line UNLESS we use these. I can make at least one launcher, probably 2, that way each team has 2 launchers. I would like to play 1 round per war this way. It doesn't have to be with one team on a ridge and the other below, we could even have temporary fortifications or something. If it's a 4 on 4 battle we could have 2 people on each team using launchers and 2 people using medium guns or something similar.

What are your thoughts?
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by SEAL » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:58 pm

This is a great idea. The only thing that I can think of that you didn't mention is schedules. I think schedules are extremely important, and they help us get more rounds per day. I actually don't think any of our wars have had schedules until Frozen Fury (well, I made one for Downpour this year, but certain things disrupted it). I would like to see every war in 2013 have a schedule. Now, on to your suggestions:

Yeah, we definitely should spend less time traveling to different playing areas (though in the case of LBW, it was well worth it). Heck, it's possible to camp out at Dug Hill, but we would need to decide on a date really early in order to avoid having it already reserved. I believe I brought this up last year, but nobody could plan that far in advance. We camped at our battleground at Onteora Lake, but we only faught there once, and it's not very accessable. Actually, there are some pretty nice wooded areas at Wilson...

Less Hold the Line? Hahaha. I was actually thinking that myself, haha. It certainly gets old after a while (even if it's just a similar defense game and not true HTL), though it can be fun. I think picking a spot that balances out the offense and defense plays a huge part in how the game turns out. An example of a bad spot would be the cliffs across the street from Dug Hill (even though they look awesome). I don't know why we always play HTL on hills; when I originally came up with the game, I always envisioned it in a flat area. Playing on a flat area might actually be better. Either way though, you're right; we shouldn't play HTL more than maybe twice a war.

Dug Hill has both dense and open spots, as have most battlegrounds that we've faught at, as far as I can recall. Either way, that's not what forces Mexican standoffs; those happen when the teams start too close together, or if the fighting area is confined. We have too many Nerf-type rounds at our wars. As I've been saying, we need to have more long, hardcore rounds like the ones at Downpour '11 and Frozen Fury. Honestly, fighting in dense areas sucks; you can barely move, and that results in a lot more standoffs than in open areas. In long rounds, the teams can always back out of the dense stuff and go elsewhere to set up an ambush or whatever. That isn't saying that confined rounds can't be fun; heck, they have been some of the best rounds I have ever been in (Thunder Gulch '11 and the last round at Downpour '12). I think terrain plays a HUGE part in how these rounds turn out. If we're going to play rounds in restricted spaces, we should make sure that there is plenty of "fighting room". Overall, I think that thick terrain is horrible for the type of rounds we usually have, but excellent for long rounds where stealth and camo actually matters.

I would still like to have CTF at least once a war. I don't know about you, but I like intensity in large doses (okay, that sounded a little weird, but still), haha. I want to have another long-range CTF game with no boundaries like at the first Downpour. I think that round was one of the most epic and intense ever, and I was on defense the whole time and didn't even see the full heat of it. Though perhaps by not doing it more than once a war, it is more exciting and fresh when we do it (unlike HTL, which has gotten old).

I agree with you about the players, but our turnouts are so small at the moment, shouldn't we focus on getting more people, at least for now? 2vs2 and 3vs2 just plain aren't much fun. If our wars ever get to the size of Nerf wars, that's when I would start focusing on player quality instead of numbers (we could even have super-hardcore wars that you have to be invited to). For now, I'd still try to boost the turnout as much as possible. I honestly think that nobody above the age of 10 would have trouble "Playing how we like to play" most of the time. But if we have wars like I want to, I wouldn't want to invite anyone under 12.

No pistol rounds? I always prefer to use big CPS guns no matter what, since we never use them when we fight amongst ourselves (plus, I like to use whatever gives me the best chance of making kills and winning), but wasn't it your idea to have a pistol round in the first place? Maybe it was DX, but what was so bad about the pistol round anyway? I honestly found it no different than any other low-caliber/air pressure only round we've done.

I love night fighting, so yes, I agree with you. The only trouble is, nobody ever wants to fight at night. I don't think I'd want to do it in the woods though; it's just too dangerous. There would have to be absolutely nothing to trip over, and it couldn't be in the wilderness (dem bears don't like ta be surprised son). Nerf battlefields would actually work very well for night wars. Same goes for urban environments. Though I really don't care where we fight at night as long as we just do it.

I don't really care about teams as long as they're at least somewhat balanced, but yes, I have noticed that we seem to have certain team combinations more often than others. In particular, I'm rarely ever on marauder's team. Another thing I've noticed is, it does get a little old fighting with (or against; whatever) the same people over and over. This is another reason why I think we should aim for bigger turnouts this upcoming year.

I'm fine with using less powerful guns just as long as it's not in a serious round where winning really counts and I want to use the best that I have at my disposal, haha. I do agree though; how come the worst players always get the worst guns? Acutally, the answer is probably that the worst people are always the guests, who always have to borrow guns, and most people only have a few good guns (which they themselves are using). For example, in the Thunder Gulch round in '12, everyone had 2000s, 2500s, and 1500s, while Bela had a Vindicator.

The problem is, none of us really have homemades, let alone practical ones. It seems like all the members who've made homemades don't come to our wars (yes, DX and I have made them, but we're the only ones, and we have infinitely more practical blasters that we'd rather use). As for launcher rounds, they are kind of fun, but the launchers never really play much of a part in them anyway, and I hate fighting with mine (that first round at Hydropocalypse... ugh). Though once again, if we had higher numbers, it might be more fun.

So those are my thoughts, take them or leave them. After writing all that I'm reminded that another thing that I want that you haven't mentioned is long, hardcore OHK or OHS battles. I'm sure you're all tired of me saying that, but it's what I want, probably more than any of this other stuff (aside from numbers...maybe). I feel like it's water warfare in it's purest state. At any rate, it's how I always dream of fighting, and what I always make up tactics and strategies for. Actually, I'd like even more hardcore rounds than that, but that is currently un-doable.
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by Fishfan » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:26 pm

marauder wrote:Shorter Distance to the battlefield
We spent a lot of time this year just traveling to our battlegrounds. Shortening our morning commutes would give us much more playing time. Even the commute from the campground to the lake at Umstead was further out than ideal. I see the ideal situation as camping at/on our battleground.
I have a battle area that is really well suited for water fights, and we can camp there as well. It is fairly far away from my house, but I can't have more than two guests sleeping at my house anyway.
The battle ground is a very big maze, not as in square miles, but it is pretty large. There are two spigots that I know of, and they are fairly far apart, so it would be good for team 1hk and spawn games, as well as capture the flag. I have been thinking of battle plans even before I discovered Sscentral and Wwn, albeit with nerf SS guns. But anyways, If I ever do host a battle down in FL, it will be there.
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by marauder » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:39 pm

The pistol round was my idea, but it wasn't executed how I envisioned it. My original idea was for me and maybe DX, Scott, and SEAL to use smaller guns (eg XP 95) and let everyone else use larger guns. I wanted more of a challenge. We were going to fight that round near the ponds. It went from that to everyone using small guns to everyone using even smaller guns at Long Beach.

When I talk about thick foliage I don't mean fighting on a battlefield that is 100% briars and vines. I mean some place where you can't see 100 yards ahead of you like you could at Umstead, most of the trail area at Dug Hill, and even Paine (well it was winter). I will post some photos of what I mean. However, I am used to playing night battles in the woods. I prefer an area with variety, like Wilson. We fought near the bath house and also in the woods. Wetmonkey and I did a lot of sneaking through the woods and I know that DX, Will, and Jack set an ambush for us in the woods as well.

Another factor that should help keep us from having Mexican standoffs is to have longer rounds. In short rounds there's a tendency to stay in the same area. When you have more time teams can hit and run, retreat, ambush, etc. So, more time + more foliage in my opinion.

In regards to launchers, having 4 launchers would be much different than having 2. Especially if the people with guns have lower caliber blasters. It would look great on film. I also think waterballoons are a lot of fun. I'd love to use them more often. I'll bring some in my car next time, and whoever is hosting should fill up a bunch before hand.

I am all for having more people. All I'm saying is, I don't want to invite more 9 year olds and people who are only somewhat interested in what we do. I didn't meet Bela or Baily but it sounds like they had a lot of fun and could keep up.

We both agree on more "hardcore" rounds. I am big on 1hk, you know that. I want to decrease the number of short 1hs games where teams start 50 yards away from each other. I don't have a problem with long 1hs games. I think that short games should be reserved for true scenarios. By true scenarios I mean like fighting bunker to bunker, ghost towns like LB, or an assault the bunker/bomb the base type game with launchers. I wouldn't want to play more than 1 of those rounds a day. I also agree with you that CTF is best played without boundaries and in an area with great environmental variation.

Ok, so we agree on a lot, and yes that means scheduling too. I really think we should have a battle next spring, maybe when everyone is off for Spring Break. I suggest that we post about our options. There are lots of areas around here that would be good, besides Umstead. That's an awesome place, but I will not fight anywhere that requires you to hike 2 miles away from your campground, or compromise and fight at a lesser local like we did. I am sure that I can get 2 more people to fight here next spring, probably up to 10 at the most. If we fight somewhere up north I would like it to be somewhere as described above, with lots of dense vegitation, some place we can camp out near the battlefield, where we can night fight, etc. Dug Hill and Paine would not be ok. I have no problem with going down to FL to fight, but I realize that is a long way away from most everyone else.

Here are some pictures of Red Scorpion working on a base at a location near me. This was for Vermin War 13 which never happened. The pictures are from March, so they reflect how the area would look next spring.

Image

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Image

Image

Image

Image

I love this photo
Image
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by AMBUSH » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:18 pm

I think we need more night rounds. It was so fun when we were at Ben's house. We we had a lot of night rounds---we have to see more of that. We need more NIGHT ROUNDS!

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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by the oncoming storm » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:39 pm

M4 when you were planing VW 13 why weren't you going to use" the impregnable fort salamond" ?

As a side note we need to make a guide for hardcore base building ( more than a sheet of piliwood with 2 trees)
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by marauder » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:59 pm

Because, as awesome as Salamandastron was, there really wasn't enough room in the woods around it. My neighbors cut about an entire acre worth of forest behind my property. On top of that, the woods across the road were completely bulldozed over to make a new neighborhood. So we basically had 1 acre worth of woods and that's not enough for the type of battles we like to have. I do plan on making a base building guide.

Here are more photos of the location we've been discussing. I just took these today.

Image
Nice mix of thick underbrush and open areas to move through.

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Pine woods on the north end of the forest.

Image

Image

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This is large enough to walk through.

Image
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Re: 2013 WaterWar.net Community Wars

Post by SEAL » Sat Dec 29, 2012 1:14 pm

M4, if you're going to go ahead and do this, you should start a thread for it (I'll add it to the list as well). I really like the way the location looks in the pictures. It actually reminds me of a spot at my local battlefield, which is also extremely overgrown (probably even more so, but there are some open areas). We've faught there before, and it's pretty challenging. I've been wanting to do stealth warfare for a while, and these types of places are perfect for it.

When you do start a thread, some of these posts should be moved there.
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