Help For A Noob???

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sibon
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Help For A Noob???

Post by sibon » Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:34 pm

(If this is in the wrong place please move)

Hi, I'm very new to the WW environment (or anything similar) and was wandering what kind of strategy to adopt at a battle next week. I will be using the Water Warrior Ultimate Renegade (The rule is your blaster can cost no more than 15£) with no secondary, on an arena which is about 200' wide and 800' long (though we may only be able to use a 200' by 500' space). There will be no more than 6 people, and we will most likely be a mixture of free-for-all and teams. There are 2 taps. I really don't know what to do, do I camp by a tap? Do I climb a tree and snipe? Do I go aggro? I'm a total novice, so ANY tips will be appreciated :D

The map has lots of tree cover with a central feild, also the further you go along the higher the ground gets.
Last edited by sibon on Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:30 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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atvan
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by atvan » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:32 pm

What rules will you be playing? Are you playing a style where you don't die, and simply blast each other until everybody is soaked and goes home (soakfest), a ruletype where a hit (or a number of hits) "kills" you and you are out for the rest of the round (# Hit Kills/#HK), or a ruletype where each hit is counted as point for you or against your opponent (One Hit Scores/OHS)?

In a soakfest, A good strategy would simply be to take on playes with less range or who are not quite sure what is going on, and just make sure you land more water on them then they do on you. Falling back if they start to push the advantage is perfectly fine. another technique is to lurk around ongoung battles (in the free-for-all) and take shots of opportunity, striking quickly and them stepping back out of range, using their distraction of combat as a way to get the advantage, especially on players with better guns or those who are succeding tactically, be it from dodging, taking on targets of opportunity or just getting lucky.

If it is a OHK type playset, a good idea (for all gametypes but this one especially) is to get an idea of how good the weapons of your opponents are, and put the gun with the face in your head so that you can avoid them as soon as you see them instead of needing to see their gun if it is superior to yours. That said, (in free-for-all) you might be able to get the powerful players to fight each other by using the surroundings to you advantage, pushing the opponents into each other instead of trying to get the kill, and simply letting them battle it out while you use the the battle to tire them out as well as leave them distracted, possibly giving you the chance to finish one off if he eliminates the other. Another possible way to play would be to try to spark battles like these among others, only to slink away, doing this again and again. Remeber that this does not simply mean hide, because there are good chances others will do this, and iff they all do, it may lead to a very long game. :goofy: If you are successful, you may only have to actually engage in combat with one opponent, who will likely be much more tired out than you. Remember, getting hit is losing, and above all you should see to a safe escape to an easily defensible position such as a hill. (Once again, applies to all games, put is especially true with perma-death)

OHS is possibly the most tricky, simply because the player must strike a balance between an agressive style of the soakfest and the conservative style required to do well in a competitively fielded OHK round. It may be simpler with the team setup, both for tactical and technical reasons (try keeping score during an FFA). A good tactic against an opponent who makes the seemingly logical move to stick together is to break the team down into smaller groups (likely one person with the attendence numbers you are expecting), and then coordinating numbers-down attacks, leaving them with a small target to your larger one, and then doing your bets for your solo suicide charge to take at least one person with you as this will keep the score even. Any more hits and suddenly you are winning (once again this tactic works in all gametypes, but the success does not really manifest much in a soakfest, and most players, especially those who are doing this for the first time, should not be expected to end their fun in a round, even if it can lead to a possible win for the team). In FFA, the techniques highlighted in the paragraph about OHK should work, although you can play more agressively.


A few good things to remember no matter how you play is that you should probably carry extra water in water bottles which you put in a backpack because much of the fighting, especially in a group which has not learned to conserve water, will be centerd around the water sources. Another thing to remember is that you should not take on an opponent in a position which grants them an advantage, but instead try to draw them out to equal grounds, or even draw them out of the position only to take it for yourself.

Good luck.
DX wrote:In the neanderthal days of K-modding, people would lop off the whole PRV
Well, not that much soakage.
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sibon
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by sibon » Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:58 pm

Thank you so much atvan! I'll be sure to put your advice to good use :D . We will decide the rules based on who shows up and with what I think. By the way, I'm going to be dealing with someone who is much more agile quick than myself, he is also crazy good at dodging (if our snowball fights are anything to go by :goofy: ) any advice for dealing with him?
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atvan
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by atvan » Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:39 pm

If everybody understands what is going on, they will more than likely gang up on him. That will give him plenty to deal with while you pick off the mob. :goofy:
DX wrote:In the neanderthal days of K-modding, people would lop off the whole PRV
Well, not that much soakage.
Beware the Purple

mr. dude
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by mr. dude » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:23 pm

First of all, welcome to the forums and the hobby!

Second, isoaker tends to discourage people from posting their locations, I don't know how he'd feel about the map.

Third, atvan gave good advice, here's what I'll say to build on it:
One thing that has always worked in my experience is to hide. It makes the other players come to you and play on your terms, and (perhaps more importantly) if they've been looking long enough, they will start to lose focus and be prone to ambushes. You've got a lot of trees in the playing area, you can use them for cover. Hide there and just wait. That's one option, it really kills the game, so only use it if you're more interested in winning than you are in having a fun game (I once tried it in a 3v2-my team having the 2-the other team split up to find us, and by the end they only had one player left because the other two got bored and went home).

I usually tend to use the strategy atvan suggested, let everyone else get sucked into a big fight while you float around the peripheries and shoot at people when they're distracted. Know your Ultimate Renegade's maximum range, and only get that close to people when you want to shoot, otherwise, stay out of range and wait for an opportunity to shoot.

Also, regardless of the gametype and general strategy, one thing that gives me a huge advantage over my less experienced friends is that I don't waste my water. It means I'm always ready to shoot and I don't have to refill as often. The keys to this are 1) only shoot when you know you'll hit someone, 2) take quick shots, don't unload your entire tank on your target because you'll usually end up missing half that shot, and 3) always pump up to full pressure, even between quick burst shots.

sibon
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by sibon » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:29 am

Thanks guys! You've helped massively! If its against thee rules l'll take the pic down, sorry.
DON'T SHOOT I'M ON YOUR TE-*GURGLE*

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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by Andrew » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:18 am

Welcome to WWn!

Firstly, the thread would probably be better suited to the 'Water Warfare General Discussions' forum with it's tactics and strategies section, but as you mentioned an event there shouldn't be any issues with where it has been posted (especially if you post details about how the event went, afterwards ;) )

As for the pic, it shouldn't be a problem, as long as it doesn't explicitly show where you live.

You probably already know that the renegade is an air pressure water blaster. Unlike a lot of air pressure blasters (especially cheaper ones) you don't pump air into it to pressurise it, you pump water into a separate chamber and compress the air already in this separate chamber. These blasters tend to perform better and, with a limit of £15, you'll probably see others at the event with standard pressurised reservoir (pump the air in) blasters or piston blasters with lower performance. You may not know that to get THE BEST from your separate pressure chamber renegade, you should pump the blaster a few times BEFORE filling it with water. This increases the pressure in the chamber for even more power, range and output! :) this WILL give you an edge over others, even if they have an identical blaster (as long as they don't know about it). This is called pre-charging (you'll find details on the page linked below). The only problem is if you fire all of the water in the pressure chamber, the pressurised air (which was floating on top of the water in the pressure chamber) will exit through the nozzle, creating a 'mist shot', leaving you defenceless, and resulting in reduced performance (the pressure in the chamber won't be as high) when you pump the blaster again. Using short tap-shots, and pumping the blaster between shots (as mr. dude mentioned) will reduce the likelihood of firing 'mist shots' as it will keep the blaster's pressure chamber topped up and ready to fire. If you do fire a mist shot, you can just turn your blaster upside down and pump to put more air into the pressure chamber (the water intake is at the bottom or the water reservoir, so by turning the blaster upside down the water intake will be on the top of the blaster and will pump air instead of water into the pressure chamber). N00bs may laugh at you for pumping the blaster upside down, but you will have the last laugh!

Full details on how to get the most out of a separate air pressure chamber blaster (or any other blaster) can be found here. There's quite a bit of text there so don't be afraid to ask if there is anything you don't quite understand.

As for general usage tips, they can be found here.

Obviously your blaster has a nozzle selector. The choice of nozzle is very important and depends entirely on your situation. Factors affecting which nozzle to use include:
  • Range required
  • How wet you want the opponent to get
  • How much water is available
The last point has multiple points within it and is affected by how you play. If you have a water source nearby to use as a blaster filling station during the game, then you don't need to conserve water as much as if you can only fill up before the game, and that's it until the end of the game. It also depends on whether or not you'll be allowing people to fire at those who are filling up their blasters (obviously you don't want to be caught out with an empty blaster).

As a general rule of thumb, your mid-size nozzle should be the one which gets the most use (as it happens that nozzle also has the best range on the renegade :D ). Tap shots are less wasteful than emptying the pressure chamber in one go. It also means, if you miss, you can fire again rather than having to pump the blaster again.

The larger nozzle can be used to soak the opponent more heavily at the expense of range, and the smaller nozzle can be used for water conservation also at the expense of range.

Details about your particular blaster can be found here.

And if you want more information on how blasters work, or any tech terms we use look here.

The wiki article on air pressure water guns may be focused on homemades but the technology is still valid.

You might want to take a look at the tactics and games sections on the wiki homepage and isoaker.com.

Finally at the end of the battle fully de-pressurise and empty the blaster.

:soakon:
Last edited by Andrew on Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sibon
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by sibon » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:44 am

Thanks a lot Andrew, that was extremely helpful! I will be sure to read those articles. I now have an idea of strategy and how to use my Blaster properly, so I guess the rest is up to me :) (although if anyone wants to add something feel free :D ) . Again, thank you all for your help, hopefully I might have the upper hand now! One last thing, at the end of test firing it, the Renegade usually still has 2-4 ml of water in the pressure chamber which takes many mist-shots to get out fully. Does this matter, and if so how do I fix it? Thanks.

BTW, I will make sure to post details of our battle! ;)
DON'T SHOOT I'M ON YOUR TE-*GURGLE*

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atvan
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by atvan » Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:09 am

That isn't really much of a problem.

Another trick that you caqn pull off with the Renegade that won't work on may cheaper blasters is the ability to fill and fire at the same time. There is also the lame but effective trick of emptying the reservoir, taking off the cap, and holding the gun upside down, shaking it and saying, "I'm out!" The opponents will likely close in on you allowing you to use the water left in the pressure chamber to quickly dispatch them.
DX wrote:In the neanderthal days of K-modding, people would lop off the whole PRV
Well, not that much soakage.
Beware the Purple

sibon
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by sibon » Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:26 pm

Thank you SO much! That trick sounds awesome XD. Considering I don't know where the taps are, how many people will show and with what, I think I'm as prepared as I'll ever be thanks to you guys... Again, I'll make to post details of what happens (will be up before June 13th)
DON'T SHOOT I'M ON YOUR TE-*GURGLE*

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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by thelaminator » Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:34 pm

follow their advice, and to add, don't let the glaring fact of you being a "n00b" bring you down into self-defeat. if anything, you'll be the best-informed "n00b" there! :goofy:
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by Andrew » Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:43 pm

thelaminator wrote:follow their advice, and to add, don't let the glaring fact of you being a "n00b" bring you down into self-defeat. if anything, you'll be the best-informed "n00b" there! :goofy:

And that's exactly why they won't know what hit them! :lol:
sibon wrote:the Renegade usually still has 2-4 ml of water in the pressure chamber
If it's anything like the original renegade it has an intake tube to remove water from the pressure chamber. This tube won't be able to get all of the water out of the pressure chamber as easily as if the pressure chamber was connected to the firing valve by a pipe running below the pressure chamber like in other blasters like the Gorgon as gravity removes all of the water from the chamber for you. Basically, this is normal for separate pressure chamber blasters with intake tubes in their pressure chambers, but it is still advisable to fully empty the blaster before storage.

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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by marauder » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:41 am

Welcome to WWN. You will probably have the best gun at the event. The only way someone will have a better gun than you is if they find a Colossus or Gorgon for cheap. As Andrew said, pump your gun 3-4 times with air before you fill it up. Then pump it up with water until it's fully pressurized, then finally refill it! This will give you more power AND more capacity.

If you can get to the high ground before everyone else, DO IT! Always use the high ground and keep the wind at your back. Make them shoot into the wind. Stay out of the range of your opponents' guns and hit them from long range, most people won't be able to shoot as far as you. That's a huge advantage! If someone isn't paying attention you can always run in and take them out from close range. I only recommend this in a soakfest, that is, a game where hits aren't counted but the wettest person at the end loses and the driest wins. It's an incredible adrenaline rush to bear down on your enemy at close range and completely hose them. Just hold down the trigger and unleash a full blast on them as you run up to and then past them. Other than that, I'd go with tap shots like everyone else said.

The tactics you want to use will largely depend on the gametype (see the offense article below), but no matter what you're playing, you should rely on tap shots, your middle nozzle, the high ground, and keep the wind at your back.

These tactical articles are more for team battles, but there's still good info there for free for alls as well.
http://hydrowar.com/offense.html
http://hydrowar.com/defense.html

After the battle let us know how it goes and post a battle report here: http://www.waterwar.net/site_wwn/board/forum154.html It'd be awesome if you could get someone to take pics too. Good luck!
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by sibon » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:24 pm

Thanks for the reply marauder4! Every response so far has been very helpful, so thank you all =D. By the way, the box recommends pumping 10-12 times before filling, not 3-4. Which is correct? (Or have I misunderstood?). One last thing, in every picture of the Ultimate Renegade I've seen, it has had an orange nozzle, cap, pump, trigger and a green piece of plastic on the side of the reservoir. On my Ultimate Renegade however, the pump, cap and green piece of plastic are all black. Is this rare, or are the orange and green ones just always used for photos?
Last edited by sibon on Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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mr. dude
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by mr. dude » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:56 pm

The 3-4 is priming, done before you put any water in, it lets you eek out an extra bit of power from your blaster. The 10-12 is after you've loaded it and it's just the pumping of water into the pressure tank. If you do prime it, you probably won't quite get 10-12 full pumps, just do as many as the blaster lets you (you'll hear it squeak when you pump it and it's already at full pressure).

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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by thelaminator » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:33 pm

Black, you say? That is odd... mine has orange on all those parts (exept the green thing, which is green :goofy: ) are yoi willing to post a picture?
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sibon
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by sibon » Sun Jun 03, 2012 5:41 pm

Certainly, will have to do it tomorrow though, as it is around 20 to midnight here in London, my good camera has no batteries, the blaster is downstairs and I'm lying in bed :P
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by DX » Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:26 am

Pretty much all of the above is sound advice. However, I would recommend way more than just 3-4 pumps with air. It's more like 8-15. I am not familiar with the Renegade, but I do know that you won't feel much of a difference if you only prime it 4 times. I prime my colossus 15 times before putting any water in. The shot time is lowered, but I find myself not needing to shoot more than a few seconds anyway. The extra power more than makes up for it. The smaller the pump volume and the larger the pressure chamber volume, the more priming can be done to it. The best way to figure out the optimal amount of pumps would be to plot a range curve. Probably way more effort then you need to take for a simple 3v3 war, but the theory is to prime it a set number of times, then pump the water in, then measure the range, and repeat this process. If you try no priming at first and work your way up to like 15 pumps, you'll have 16 data points with different ranges. It should form a curve and the peak of the curve is where you get the highest range. Whatever that point ends up being is the amount of times to prime your soaker.

Avoid suicide rushing in OHK for obvious reasons. It can work in OHS, but is risky in OHK and does nothing in a soakfest. Also avoid it if you end up being your team's top player. The loss of you could spark a momentum shift that rolls up your remaining players in a matter of seconds, especially if they rush into the gap you've left.

One of the best ways to make opponents run out of water before you do is to step in, draw a shot, and step back quickly. Fake like you're going to go for them, making them react by shooting, and lurch back out so that their shot falls short. Meanwhile, you should only take shots that you have a good chance of making. Target the guy who is diagonal to you before thinking about hitting the guy directly in front of you. Diagonal opponents are easier to catch off guard, and might even be closer.

Fast and agile players are very difficult to counter. Traditionally, you'd want to ambush such a player, but the map provided does not appear to be all that great for ambushing. There's not enough visible concealment and it's a small area. It's also hard to slip out of sight or have an enemy forget about you when there's only 3 people on each team. You could counter speed with speed if you have it on your team, although this is mainly defensive, to prevent the fast opponent from scoring hits. Another thing that works well is switching positions rapidly with other players in your formation, to put the right defense where it's needed most at a given moment, although with 3 people, this is less of an option. You could also try making him dodge, run around, and use up his energy. This won't work if he is in good physical shape, though.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by sibon » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:55 am

Here's the pic: (Sorry, couldn't find my good camera. You can still see the differences though)
Image
EDIT: my blaster seems to be a darker blue as well... (It's not just the light btw, it is that colour normally)

Thanks for the reply DX, if I try pumping over say, 12 times I just get a mist shot when I pull the trigger, so I'll try from 8-12 :) And he is in THE BEST physical shape. Ever. Like, future Olympic gold medal winner shape (and he pretty much could choose the event he wins it at as well XD he's good at almost everything sports-based)
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Re: Help For A Noob???

Post by Andrew » Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:04 pm

Is it from Argos? That's the only place I can think of where I've seen it advertised (as a snap-it renegade) with black components. Out of interest, did it come without the sticker or have you taken it off yourself?
M4 wrote:The only way someone will have a better gun than you is if they find a Colossus or Gorgon for cheap.
That's a possibility. The only place I can find a Colossus is Tesco and that's £14.96 (That makes it £4.96 if you happen to have a voucher! :D ). But if they don't know to pre-charge their colossus, and you follow the tactical advice, then you'll probably still have the upper hand anyway.

As for number of pumps for pre-charging, my XP70 works well with anything between 10-15 (after that it doesn't build any more pressure. To be fair the pump seal is watertight not airtight!) pumps. Depending on how good your pump seal is, and how much pressure chamber capacity you want, you may find more, or less, pumps more suitable for what you need.

Although I do find at higher pressures, the stream lamination seems to suffer a bit with my XP70.

The best option is, as DX mentioned, to physically test what works best for your particular blaster and plot to find the optimum number of pre-charge pumps.

One last thing, pump water until you hear the blaster squeal (unless the pump goes completely solid, then stop then instead). This is the pressure relief valve letting water back into the reservoir and means you have reached maximum pressure. Pumping any more just wastes energy.
Last edited by Andrew on Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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