Community Summer War

[wetmonkey442]

I am planning on bringing a 12 volt compressor and maybe a potato cannon for a little bit of variety back at the grill.

[scottthewaterwarrior]

No, I wasn't meaning for us to do mostly soakfests, far from it. I would love to try other game types, I just never have before because no one else was willing to. I wouldn't complain if we did have a soakfest but being with a bunch of guys who are willing to do other stuff I'm not about to pass up my chance to try other game types. As for getting out in elimination it would probaly better then when I did paintball. At least I'm good at water warfare and it doesn't rely on luck (paintball guns are so inacurate you nead luck just to hit anything)(or at least the ones I used were). And being able to hang out and the grill sounds a lot better then having to sit on a bench with nothing to do.

I talked to my dad about taking an RV trip to the war and he said "probaly yes." I hope if I do come I will not be too big a noob!

[HBWW]

Well I guess that's it then. If there are tactically placed natural refilling locations, I have pretty much no choice but to use them if everyone else is going to lol.

Dude, you can do whatever you want. You can use those, you can use the hose(s), you can fill up coolers, you can fill up water bottles. Fight your way.

It's better not to have to carry all that water though; being able to fill from more sources gives a distinct tactical advantage and it's one I won't loose out on, though this depends on the different playing areas for our games.

As for game types I propose that we fight several different styles. It will be a lot of fun. I would prefer to have at least half of those games be some form of elimination (with or without respawn or capture the flag). I recognize your complaints about having to sit out after being eliminated, but I also want to point out that soakfests get old after everyone has been thoroughly soaked from head to toe. With that in mind I think we should test out different games, from the typical generic soakfest to games like Vampires or Zombies, to maybe a few scenarios or something. We can grill out at the park. If we do play elimination games (which I hope we do) then those eliminated can run the cameras and chill out at the grill. Diversity is where it's at gentlemen.

I tend to group by 3 games: games with short term elimination/hit counting, games with long-term or permanent elimination, and soakfests. (Which I define as any game w/ an element of invulnerability even if it doesn't apply to everyone at once.) Personally, I think we should save the soakfest games for the end. A classic I'd like to get back to is hidden-flag CTF where two bases/areas are designated and teams may hide the flag amongst their designated area.

Anyway, a relatively even balance of all three types would be cool.

[DX]

I'm more than willing to help fill and transport if you want to cache tap water supplies around to match the natural sources. No setup is burdensome if it ensures that more people will have fun. Carrying large containers of water is a good upper body strength workout, too, and I need more substance up there haha.

Soakfests toward the end sound workable. I tend to find them rather boring, but at the end of the day...you've got all that water left...and your teammates are likely dry...hmm...well...

Nobody should worry about lack of experience or skill or anything along those lines. It's a water war. It can be as serious or as casual as you want to make it. Don't forget about the veteran / emulation effect either, I've seen players who have never picked up a water gun before get wicked good in a single war.

[scottthewaterwarrior]

Yes, I know what you mean. Last month I battled my next door neighbor (he's , he's never used a water gun before and he is better then most my friends who have been doing it for years!

And I agree that soakfests should be left for the end. That was what I was thinking too.

If I can come I could probably help bring water sources, I have a couple coolers and about 15 two liter bottles to stuff them with (I doubt that we can fit that many in them though). I could also use a good upper body workout, I have huge leg muscles but toothpicks for arms.

Edit: I'm not worried about being a noob in lack of skill, more that I will have a major ADHA moment and start hyperventilating and pass out with excitement.

[SEAL]

So it looks like August 20-21 are the only dates when everyone can make it? Those are both weekends, so we'll probably have more people at the park than if we were to hold it during the week. Not a big deal, but we'll probably want to reserve the pavilion.

So it's decided that we'll hold it in my area? If so, I'll need to call the town to reserve the pavilion for the after-war party. By the way, my mom thinks you guys should all pitch in a few bucks to cover expenses. While I don't think anyone should have to pay, I may be able to get some extras for the party (Stereo, food, maybe even T-shirts.) if everyone does. Otherwise you'd have to bring your own food, and there'd probably be no music or souvineirs. It's up to you.

That puddle you see in one of the pictures is a small swamp in a gully between two cliffs. The water has alge in it. Is that bad for water guns? I have a feeling that the puddle won't even be there in August though; everything dries up around then. So if there is no water source in the woods by then, we should all bring coolers for refilling. My brother is saving water bottles just for the occasion.

Another thing, how long is this going to last? One day? Or muliple days? Ether way, those of you coming from far away will probably have to spend the night somewhere. Around here, there are hotels in the city of Kingston, which is about 25 minutes or so away from the battlefield.

[HBWW]

Soakfests are like desserts taken after the main course of hit-based games, at least for my water wars. For us, they're sometimes even the most fun and funny. So long as there is an objective, or a way of determining who "wins" (and that method does not involve pathetic attempts to determine who's the most dry), that is my only requirement for soakfests.

Skill and experience are strange things. I have far more experience than I have skill, while many of those who have attended my events in the past have little experience but much skill. This is one of the things that opens water warfare to more players, but the odditity of skill and experience gaps, as well as their general lack of correlation can discourage some. I've found that skill is mostly determined by how fit/athletic one is, but occasionally you get those who are athletic but don't have the thinking process drilled down for shooting games. (I know someone in particular who this has applied to, but he's definitely gotten better at the thinking and shooting aspect of water warfare, nerf, and other games.)

I'm big on water sources; I have backpacks and tons of water bottles. My point was that you have to carry them to use them, and they can be more encumbering so the player who is willing to use natural sources has a distinct advantage over those who don't. It's more about game balance than about limiting game options, but sometimes, as all gamers know, options that could add profound dynamics to games are sacrificed in the name of game balance. Refilling from natural sources makes for an interesting and unique game dynamic exclusive to water warfare, but it's all a matter of what players are comfortable with, and if they're not comfortable with, say, filling a CPS 2000 with natural water, they are put at a distinct disadvantage of having to lug water containers around as they play against someone with a CPS 2000 who's okay with natural water sources. This is why I wanted to put up a vote for it; I decided that I won't care that much because most others don't, but those who do care about it should be heard. Then again, the tactical advantage is probably not all that big of a deal anyways; there are plenty of other tactical unbalances that we will encounter at this war, such as location, camouflage (some players will have it, some will not), and water weaponry itself.

However, if we run games that don't take that long, water sourcing should not be an issue at all except for in soakfest based games. Any single-sided (assault/defense) soakfest (using my definition of soakfest) game we do will take place near water sources, as the playing area has plenty. For most elimination, water supplying is never an issue, but it can be a concern for short-term elimination hit based games.

I'll compile a game list right now and see who's interested in what.

Soakfest:
- Hidden-Flag CTF (hide flag in pre-designated stretches of area and try to find the enemy's first to capture)
- Infection (zombies get piston pumpers/triggerless, squirt guns, water bottles, humans get hoses, CPS's, anything agreed to be safe; zombies are invulnerable, humans are not. playing field size must be limited reasonably, humans may be prohibited from exiting a certain area)

Short-term Elimination:
- CTF Games (Flag and Cap-Point objectives)
- Soakn' Destroy Games (Bomb and Target objectives)
- Conquest Games (Attack-Target objectives)
- Invasion/Mixed Objective
- Soakmatch (aka Deathmatch)

Long-term Elimination:
- Hold the Line. (Reverse-Flag and Cap-Point objectives, or Attack-Target objectives; it's up to SEAL to decide)
- Simple Elimination Skirmish
- Guardians (Teams designate a VIP who is secret to the other team; both teams get infinite lives except for VIP, and loose ability to spawn if VIP is hit. Game ends when one team is eliminated completely.)
- Team Magic Flag (See relevant thread: http://www.isoaker.net/isnet/topic4665.html)

Other games I didn't mention that people want to play should be put up. I think everyone should be given one, two, or three games to customize, and they can use the maps and pictures to plan where they want to place their objectives. The final game rules can be revised when we're actually there, as it is difficult to build games on maps that you haven't seen for yourself.

In the meantime, I should work on the HBWW site and get some game info up. I took down the previous iteration of HBWW (hbww.comlu.com) as it was intended for a class, and probably has bad security holes and other issues; I need better PHP skill if I want to develop the site further in the direction I went.

Edit: My bad, I mistaked Hold the Line for a game where one of the sides is invulnerable.

[wetmonkey442]

@SEAL: Yeah that sounds fine. I would love to donate to the cause. I'll bring some food (burgers, hot dogs, chips, soda etc.) , but depending upon how many people show up, we might need some more.

DX and I'll be coming from about 2-3 hours away, so I think we can swing a single day without any overnight plans. In terms of day-of scheduling, how does this sound:

9:00AM-10:00AM: Arrivals, introductions, set-up.
10:00AM-1:00PM: Objective/Elimination play.
1:00PM-2:00PM: Lunch
2:00PM-5:00PM: Objective/Elimination play.
5:00PM-6:00PM: Dinner/Soakfest

Changes?

Those who are coming from farther away can leave before dinner in order to save some time, which makes after dinner a perfect time for a soakfest because we might be short on people.

[HBWW]

I'm cool with having it for both days everyone can attend; we may even end up having nightly wars depending on how many people are up to it.

Not sure if I'll be arriving in an RV anymore. If not enough people join us, we have to take cars and stay at hotels instead. Also not sure about starting in the morning but I guess it gives us more time. Not sure how much ordinance I can stuff into a car, but I'll see what I can do. Might consider disassembling my PWN312BS WBL and seeing if I can pack that, lol. However, we need two WBL's; one for each team, if we want to make use of them, or they can only be used for single-sided (assault/defense) games.

Little hitch in my plans; a good friend is having a birthday party on the Wednesday before the planned war. I will have to shift the road trip plans to accommodate it, but the road trip has priority over the party as it was planned and done earlier. (However, if I have to sacrifice some sleep to get here in time, I will.)

See how much time you can reserve on the pavilion for a reasonable cost. I'm worried that if another group shows up they may kill the party or restrict what we can do. Then again, this isn't Michigan where in some areas the average numskull will call the police because of a few guys with super-dangerous-deadly water guns. As for costs, I'll be sure to have enough cash to pitch in.

Anyway, I want to see if we can shift the time around a bit and maybe add a second day to the war. We can stay at hotels and/or camp, or be crazy and continue warring. I don't think I'll be able to bring camping equipment though, and a long-term war only works when you can set up camp. (You know what I'm thinking of though; kind of like those crazy Airsoft events where some players must sleep and some must be on patrol; not sure who'd be up for that.)

Also, I'd like to get a list of those who want to weigh in on the gametypes we will play. Can everyone post a playlist of what they want to play? Basically, just list the games and rules you would run as if you were organizing the entire event by yourself, and let it reflect on the types of games YOU prefer without the influence of worrying about what others would want to play. Be specific and account for time. This will let everyone get a good idea of what everyone else wants to do, and we can work something out together more easily. Here's mine:


>>The Playlist<<

-Objective Types-
> Flag and Capture Point: The classic CTF objectives. Cap points are usually the same as Flags' initial locations.
> Reverse Flag and Cap. Point: Team ownership is swapped. Team A owns team B's Capture Point and Flag, and vice versa.
> Bomb and Target: Bomb must be armed and detonated at Target. Bomb takes set amount of time to arm and disarm (usually quick and limited by player, such as filling/unfilling a container representing the bomb), and has it's own timer, represented by an hourglass or something.
> Container Target: Score by filling the container (anything that holds water such as a .5L bottle, 2L bottle, 4L container, bucket, cooler, etc.) up with water.
> Attack Target: Score by blasting away a target, such as a square of toilet paper or electronic vest.

-Spawn Point Types-
> Instant and Wait. Each Wait point has a watch/clock and players waiting may spawn at certain intervals. If more than 3 players are at a Wait point at a time, they may all spawn instantly. Obviously, each Instant point allows players to spawn just by being there.

> Static, Deployable, and Moving: Static points are points predetermined and never move but may appear/disappear depending on game conditions. Deployable spawn points may be placed anywhere on map but may be destroyed by an opposing team member. Moving spawn points are simply spawn points that move, such as players or objects.

> Permanent, non-permanent: Some spawn points are only available after completing an objective or at certain points in a game.


-Basic Long-Term Elimination-

- Light-Soaker only Elimination Skirmish:
> Acceptable water weaponry list TBD, depending on what people have and are able/willing to bring, but will likely be limited to the Flash Flood/Vindicator (stock) and below in terms of power.
> Strict battlefield borders; perhaps limited to pavilion/playground area
> Play for 5-10 rounds; serves as an introduction and gives variety to gameplay by restrictions, also makes dual wielding somewhat practical.

- Expanded Elimination Skirmish:
> ALL water weapons acceptable (including homemades/WBL's)
> Loose battlefield borders; spread out initial starting points
> Play for 5-10 rounds


-Short-Term Elimination-

- Team Standard CTF:
> Uses HBWW standard hit rules, flag at home required to score; opposing team's flag must be brought to same point as home flag.
> Spawn points: Choose to spawn on designated squad leader, or at a static point set about 150ft to 250ft away from the flag. Spawners/squad leaders should be obvious, marked perhaps. Flags are spaced perhaps at least half a mile apart or more, but should stretch over a good variety of ground. Infinite Lives.
> Each round ends when scoring. Play for 2 or 3 rounds.
> Moving or allowing the flag to move for purposes other than returning it is prohibited. Tying flags to squirrels, birds, bunnies, deer, raccoons, etc. is also prohibited. =p This rule applies to all other static objectives and spawn points.

- Conquest:
> Battlefield style Domination/Conquest/Territories game. Each territory however, can only be captured once. (Captured by completing an Attack-Target or Container Target.) Players may spawn at captured territories. Each territory captured gives one point to team. Team w/ most captured territories at end of game wins. (Totalled up each round.) Play for 2 rounds, then...
> Single-sided Domination/Conquest/Territories. Defending team does not capture but merely guards. May spawn at any territory owned by team. Play for 2 rounds, alternating defense/assault roles.

- Invasion:
> Single-sided 3-tier objective game that grows in scale and changes objective each phase. Each round composed of 3 phases. 2 rounds total. May play up to 3 games of this if it's fun and works out well.
> We will use the following objectives: Phase 1: Container-Target (two 4L containers, filling one up completely wins phase; stored water usable for Phase 2); Phase 2: Two Attack Targets (score one to move on); Phase 3: Flag and Cap. Point. (Single Flag and Cap. Point. Cap. Point located at set location.)
> Each phase will feature the following: Phase 1: Light soakers only (same allowed blasters list as previous game) and .5L bottles (no WB's), restricted battlefield borders; Phase 2: Near full-size borders, all water weaponry allowed except homemades, defense gets refill station and assault gets one deployable spawn point at a time, and up to 3 uses total; Phase 3: WBL's, SCII, etc. allowed and defense can access refill station. (If used safely.) Assault gets 3 deployable spawns at a time and may use up to 10.
> Other phase-specific static spawn points TBD.

- Soakmatch (deathmatch):
> All hits are counted per team or per player, and team with most soaks (kills) at the end of the match wins. Can be run as time-limit based, or score-limit based. Try at least once, but play up to 5 or 10 games if this works out.


-Hardcore/Experimental Long-Term Elimination-

- Single-Sided Soakn' Destroy, Counter-Strike style:
> Uses Bomb and Target objectives; two targets and one bomb. Bomb requires short time to arm and disarm, and runs for a predesignated amount of time when armed. Bomb timer overrides game timer when armed.
> Spawn points similar to CTF but adjusted to single-sided gameplay.
> Each round ends when scoring. Play for 4 rounds; assault/defense alternates each round.
> No respawns; complete elimination of opposing team results in a win EXCEPT when assault/terrorist team is eliminated after arming the bomb.

- Guardians:
> Each team designates a VIP whose identity is unknown to the other team. All players except the VIP have unlimited lives, and when the VIP is eliminated, the rest of the team may no longer respawn. Otherwise, they may spawn where the VIP is; the VIP will be a Wait-spawn point (see below). Static spawn locations that serve as Instant-spawns may be distributed on the map, undecided. Play for two rounds.

- Magic Flag:
> Each team has one flag that they may carry. When players are hit, they must freeze in place and may not attack. With the flag, players may revive frozen players on their team after counting to 5-apple. They may also use it to execute, or eliminate, frozen players of the opposing team. If a player carrying a flag is hit, he must freeze, drop the flag, and may not attack. Any dropped flag may be picked up by the opposing team, but is not considered captured until one player from the to-be-winning team holds BOTH teams' flags at the same time. Flag should be an object difficult to throw far, but no rule-based restrictions should be made on flag throwing even if a difficult-to-throw object cannot be found to be used for the flag. Play for one or two rounds.

- HBWW Hold the Line:
> A variation of SEAL's Hold the Line, game is basically Single-Sided Soakn' Destroy with an Attack Target. (This objective type is less confusing and more intuitive for this game than the Reverse-Flag and Cap. Point that SEAL uses.) Defense is better armed than offense, but can be eliminated while offense has unlimited lives. Spawn points and what not TBD but defense gets the refill station. Ideally, offense's water supply should be limited.
> To win: Defense must hold out for a set amount of time per round without the offense doing something that would make them win. Offense may eliminate defending team or complete the objective to win the round. 4 rounds total w/ alternating roles.


-Objective Sub-Soakfest Games-

- Infection:
> Game starts with designated "alpha zombie". All zombies are invincible and all humans are vulnerable to infection. Humans may use any gathering of water weaponry they need, and zombies may only use water bottles. (Usually piston pumpers and squirt guns are allowed, but there are no hoses this time so they are prohibited. WBL's and the SuperCannon II are also prohibited for humans for obvious safety reasons.) Humans are restricted to defending one area; any refill station will do. For the sake of this occasion, barricades may also be setup; rules on them TBD. Game ends after last human gets hit and becomes infected. Hit rules are different than the norm; any amount of water more than 5 droplets will infect a human.

- Breakthrough (Single-Sided CTF):
> Same concept and weaponry rules as Infection, but runs as a standard, time-limited 1-flag CTF game. 4 rounds with alternating defense/assault roles. Defense is armed to the teeth but vulnerable. Assault may use only water bottles. When hit, a defending player must count to 5-apple before being able to attack again.

These Sub-Soakfest games probably do not work without at least two hoses. It takes a remarkable amount of sustained high-range waterpower to hold someone back who is considered invulnerable.


-Closing Pure-Soakfest Games-

- Hide-and-go-cap:
> Both teams agree on a general area in which they may hide their flags. After that, the flags are hidden and the game becomes a matter of finding the other team's flag. Flags may not be moved after hiding, obviously. This is a pure soakfest; players who are carrying the flag while hit may continue running. To score, the player must bring the flag to the location where their flag was originally hidden, regardless of whether or not it is home. There is no reason for flag drops to happen, but if they do, they may not be returned to their original hiding locations. Round ends upon flag capture. Play for 1-3 rounds.

- Non-objective/no-winner Soakfest
> Go crazy, but follow standard rules.


Universal game rules:
- Shields permitted for games with invulnerability only
- Universal battlefield borders: TBD; areas like bathrooms strictly off-limits
- Excessively dirty refill sources not permitted. (TBDefined)
- All private property off-limits.
- Disputes between hits: Both players are considered as hit. If both players are the last players remaining, the game rewinds slightly, or the two players duel it out.
- Tiebreakers: Sudden death elimination match takes place in tiny area with no cover. Two referees, one from each team, required. Alternatively, teams may pick one player to represent them, and both representatives have a pistol duel.
-

That's about it. This was more of a comprehensive listing than anything else, and I may end up wanting to cut it down anyways. I wouldn't mind getting a chance to try each game though.

[SEAL]

So it's August 20th and/or 21st? If everyone's cool with those dates, I'll call the town and get the pavilion reserved. Any hours are fine for me, since I'm in the area. Sadly, I don't think we can have a night war because I think the park closes at night (I'll have to look into it though.). Also, I should probably mention that we don't want to have to deal with jerks, so be careful with who you bring. Only bring people you know well, not random people from school/college or whatever. I'm sure you all know this, but I just thought I'd mention it.

Playlist? Well, I'm not too picky when it comes to games, so I'll play whatever everyone agrees on. However, there are a few that I would like to play at least once:

Basic OHK. Elimination or Score-Based, doesn't matter.

CTF. Any kind is okay, ether single-sided or double-sided (Like in FPS games.).

Hold the Line. Either my version or CA99's is okay, but for the Attack Target, I think you should have to touch it with your hands instead of shooting it. The only reason to even have something in the defending team's base for them to defend, is so the defensive team has to stick around and not run off somwhere else, hiding until the timer runs out.

Soakn' Destroy sounds fun. I even have a kitchen timer we could use for the bomb.

That's about it. It also ocurred to me that each game requires certain items (Flags for CTF, "Bombs" for Soakn' Destroy, etc.), so once we have a list of games, we'll need to figure out what types of odds and ends are needed, and make a list. In fact, we should probably make a list for everything we'll need to bring.

[HBWW]

There's not much I can do about this, as most of my friends can't attend the trip, so I have to trust that my friend who's planning the bulk of it will invite those who won't douche around. I doubt that it'll be a problem though. Anyway, do let us know about the park's hours, and I'd still like to see the Google map coords/url if you can pull that up.

For the Bomb and Target, here are two of my methods:

> Bomb is an empty bottle that the attacking team carries to the Target. To arm, fill it up using a water source available at the target (such as a faucet). To disarm, empty the bottle. I have an hourglass that makes for a semi water-proof timer, a bit more reliable than the kitchen timer but still needs to be sealed up. If it isn't sealed, and water gets in (not likely unless you store it in a damp/soaked pouch or something), it takes a few days for the sand to dry up.

> Bomb is a filled bottle, and each Target has an empty bottle. To arm, fill up the Target bottle with the Bomb bottle. To disarm, empty the Target bottle.


As for Hold the Line, there are two ways to define the objective that SEAL specifies:

> As reverse-Flag and Capture Point; plant flag at the capture point located at defenders' base.

> As a Bomb and Target with instant arming time and 0 second timer.

However, I prefer the former (reverse-Flag/CP) as the B&T has standard arming/disarming times defined by filling up a container.

That said, I'd like to clear up the Attack-Target objective. The objective has to be completely disintegrated, not merely shot at. If it is a square of toilet paper, it has to be shot apart. This requires close-range shooting and can be a rather fun objective to work with, so the objective requires more work to complete than merely reaching a certain point. However, it can be done from a slightly further distance with the right water weaponry.

Other clarifications: I consider Soakn' Destroy to be a broad game family, and the verdict is to define it as any game using the Attack Target, Container Target, Bomb and Target, or reverse Flag/Cap objectives set to a single-sided or double-sided (standard; each team w/ their own objectives) game. The key point is that objectives are set up around bases, and that the match is set up in a standard double-sided game where each team has a "base" where their objectives are anchored, or in a single-sided game where the defending has their base. Conquest differs in that objectives are scattered throughout the field.

I need to write this up more cleanly and revise the HBWW site's games list.


Anyway, the reason I asked for more specifics on how others would run this war is to get more ideas in and better variety, even if they would only stick to their standard game rules. The reason I went after creating different game rules and a way of thinking about such games is because my wars have been constrained to mostly the same places for so much time. Elimination was overplayed and got stale after a year or two for whatever reason.

[SEAL]

So if nobody says otherwise by tomorrow when I check the boards, then I will call the town to reserve the pavilion for August 20th and 21st.

What about a scoring method? I'm sure everyone has a different method, so we'll have to decide on one. My group uses a feel-based method, where it only counts as a hit if you can feel the sting from the cold. Cheating may be a problem with this method though. I'm thinking we should do a standard "Fist-sized-splotch" method (And no, having a giant fist won't let give you a larger required soaking amount. ). Body targets would be cool, but I'm against having small hit areas, since that would be just as bad as having shields.

[HBWW]

I think most of us would vote out the body-target method, which is one of the reasons I currently dislike conventional laser tag. (That and the targets don't register hits half the darn time.) I also tried the quarter-sized hit as defined by M4, but this is too easy to get hits to count. Fist-sized, "mostly solid" stream is a good definition, but "splotch" is a bad one as it implies that the hit's resulting stain must be visible after landing. This means that water balloons must land a direct hit to count, though that makes them less useful. I'd also say that if you get hit by lesser amounts of water, they count as a kill when they add up to the equivalent of a "mostly solid" fist sized stream at a time. (So that a few droplets here and there don't add up at all; they must be all in the same time frame.) Difficult to define, but don't want kills to be too easy.

Another definition I used in the past was "anything more than a few whizzing droplets". Not a very helpful definition either, but somehow it didn't work all that badly. I've also gone with droplet approximations; roughly 20 droplets or more for a kill which essentially worked out to about the same thing as "a few whizzing droplets".

There's all sorts of definitions anybody can use. Here's another one: saturation. Target area must be shot with enough water to be thoroughly saturate and not just hit with fast droplets. The end result is about the same as before, but a bit more aggressive.

Has everyone agreed to meet up on both days? Also, gotta check this in with my friend before I can confirm.

Also, odd that the park would close at dark. The parks in my place don't seem to care if anyone's roaming around in the wee hours.

[scottthewaterwarrior]

I think most of us would vote out the body-target method, which is one of the reasons I currently dislike conventional laser tag. (That and the targets don't register hits half the darn time.)

Also, odd that the park would close at dark. The parks in my place don't seem to care if anyone's roaming around in the wee hours.

I hate laser tag for that reason too, the gear is always glitching up. I'm not too suprized that the park closes at dark, the parks around me do the same thing and alot of times starting half an hour before dark a police man pulls up and starts threatening tickets to every one still there. I am pretty sure I can make it both days, the 20 and 21st right? I'm not about to drive 6 hours just to stay one day. Might have to leave part way through the second day though, depending on when I nead to get back home.

[marauder]

I think what it all boils down to is a "hit" is getting shot by a stream of water, not just spray or water deflected off something.

I absolutely love laser tag. I worked at laser quest for 2-3 years and it has been my favorite job to date. You can't think of laser tag as similar to paintball, airsoft, or even nerf or waterwars, you have to think of it on its own. The best way to "fight" is completely different from all other shooting games. Some laser tag places are pretty poor quality, but there are some high quality ones too: Franky's in Greenville, SC; Laser Quest in Charlotte, NC; and Adventure Landing in Raleigh, NC.


I'm excited to try out the different games everyone has suggested, but I am mostly thinking about the early elimination or respawn games or whatever. I have been repairing and camouflaging guns over the past few days in preparation since I'm going to be away for work all next month. I have no problem with super long battles that are tactic intensive. This is exactly what Dominator War II was like when I met up with XN. There is so much suspense in those kind of wars. I feed off the suspense. I also just got a new shipment of TA-50 that I'll bring and share with whoever is on my team.

[SEAL]

Okay? Shall I do it? I'll ask you guys one last time before I call, is everyone good with August 20th and 21st?

For a scoring system, we don't want it to be too easy to get a hit, nor do we want it to be impossible. I've tried the total saturation method before, and trust me, it doesn't work. Partial saturation, what I believe CA99 suggested, could work I suppose. But for some games, we might want to go with something a little less aggressive.

marauder_4: What's a TA-50?

[isoaker]

Question: for my own insight into this, who should be considered the main point of contact for this event? I'd like to know which member is the one who is sure they would 99.999% be at the event as a key organizer even if only one other managed to make it. Hopefully the turn out will be good, but having a key contact would be helpful for getting things even more organized.

[SEAL]

I will be at the event 100%, so I guess it's me.

[isoaker]

I will be at the event 100%, so I guess it's me.

Others here ok with this? I am, but wish to be sure. Assuming to serious objections, I'm thinking about ways to help with this event even if I can't make it. Will discuss more details with whoever ends up being the primary contact.

[HBWW]

I think what it all boils down to is a "hit" is getting shot by a stream of water, not just spray or water deflected off something.

I absolutely love laser tag. I worked at laser quest for 2-3 years and it has been my favorite job to date. You can't think of laser tag as similar to paintball, airsoft, or even nerf or waterwars, you have to think of it on its own. The best way to "fight" is completely different from all other shooting games. Some laser tag places are pretty poor quality, but there are some high quality ones too: Franky's in Greenville, SC; Laser Quest in Charlotte, NC; and Adventure Landing in Raleigh, NC.

That's probably what I don't like about it; it is more about hitting targets in a way that the darn thing will register; there is zero consistency to most laser tag equipment, and getting the nail on a target (catching someone off-guard) is generally meaningless. That and having to walk around in a way that minimizes your target exposure gets annoying eventually. Or maybe it's just because I suck at hitting tiny, fast-moving targets with a tiny beam with absolutely no reliable reference that helps you aim.

@SEAL: http://www.google.com/search?q=TA-50&ie ... =firefox-a

I'd put myself at an 80% chance for attending this event. Lots of stuff to iron out, but I'm fairly confident that I can make it. I'm not familiar with the area so I can't help out a whole lot with finding places if we have to switch for whatever reason. I can help compile a final playlist based on what everyone wants to do. Ideally, we'd have each group reserve a time block where they're in charge of doing the rules, but if we can get everyone to agree on a set schedule/playlist (loosly defined; doesn't have to be strict "respawn games here" or "soakfest there") for the war, that works too.

As for the bigger picture, wetmonkey has a good schedule to go by and build on. I don't like mornings, but they do offer more time to play. Only trouble is if most people can't make it on time for introductions and setup. Also, I'd say that we should push dinner to later, at 7pm or 7:30 which gives more time to war. Here's another idea, using wetmonkey's schedule as a template:

Day 1:
9:00AM-10:00AM: Arrivals, introductions, set-up.
10:00AM-1:00PM: Introductory Playlist.
1:00PM-2:00PM: Lunch
2:00PM-7:00PM: Complete Playlist.
7:00PM-whenever: Dinner, hangout, party, music, etc.
whenever - 9:00AM, Day 2: Sleep

Day 2:
9:00AM-10:00AM: Arrivals, introductions, set-up.
10:00AM-1:00PM: Long-Term War
1:00PM-2:00PM: Lunch Break
2:00PM-7:00PM: Continued Long-Term War
7:00PM-whenever: Dinner, hangout, goodbye's, etc.

I'd have to think much about the long-term war as it will be difficult to organize and probably isn't even a good idea. If not, we can replace it with the introductory and complete playlists instead. Each playlist is really just a collection of rules and games to run, in no particular order or structure.

For dinner, it may be preferable to find a nicer place with showers, more electrical outlets, and wifi. That's just me though; not sure what others prefer to do post-war.