First water war - And totally confused.

Discussion of past, present, and future water war events.
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bb1
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Post by bb1 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:31 pm

I took all of your advice on how to set up a water war, and now I think it is coming together (I know a guy who might actually have a monster/XL or CPS, but he is not sure)

Teams are forming and there are things I am confused on, since this is a crashcourse into soakage.

Warning: Newb questions ahead.

1. What do we wear? I read some posts and I see fully clothed...wouldn't it be more practical with swimsuits?

2. If I need teammates that do not have soakers and I have to go out and buy some cheapos, what should they be?

3. General neighborhood-street (we have it good here, a long street, houses on either side, and a cul-de-sac at each end with each one being a base) and are probably going to capture the flag. What are some general rules and things to know for this type of combat? Note: Age range may be on a bit low side to mid-15s/17s

4. Thanks, and any other info other than this would be appreciated! This isn't super military like (Dux) and is not completely serious.

Oh...btw, my street I live on is Ridge Wood :bringit:

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isoaker
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Post by isoaker » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:44 pm

Good luck with setting up your local water war. Not sure I can answer all your questions, but I'll try.

1. What do we wear? I read some posts and I see fully clothed...wouldn't it be more practical with swimsuits?

- clothing depends on where you are planning to have the war. In many cases, people are fighting in forests or around houses when potentially hiding in bushes and such. Swimsuits, though they dry faster, don't offer protection against branches, leaves, etc. Of course, if you're fighting at a beach or around a pool, swimsuits could work well. However, if any real running is involved, I'd still recommend standard attire with perhaps a swimsuit on as an underlayer, but not one's only layer.

2. If I need teammates that do not have soakers and I have to go out and buy some cheapos, what should they be?

- first, I'd recommend trying to get teammates to buy their own 'cheapo' soakers. You can get basic soakers below $10 while decent for between $15-$20 USD. As for what to buy, that just depends on your budget. Things like the WW Steady Stream, Tiger Shark, or SS Sneak Attack may be good enough for general use.

3. General neighborhood-street (we have it good here, a long street, houses on either side, and a cul-de-sac at each end with each one being a base) and are probably going to capture the flag. What are some general rules and things to know for this type of combat? Note: Age range may be on a bit low side to mid-15s/17s

- mid-15 to 17 is a decent age range. I can't comment much on capture-the-flag rules, though, apart from check out the general water warfare rules pinned in this forum (Pt. 1 to Pt. 5). This also reminds me that I really should post up a formatted page containing those rules contributed by various members here.

:cool:
:: Leave NO one dry! :: iSoaker.com .:

WaterWolf
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Post by WaterWolf » Tue Apr 17, 2007 3:57 pm

1. What do we wear?
My team tends to ware surplus military camo, which is cheap if you know where to get it. Its great for repelling thorns/branches, dries out fairly quickly and of corse, works well for camouflage.

2. What to buy?
Buzz-Bee guns can be fairly cheap and are pretty good.

3. What to chose for game-type?
How many people is it?
The Maple-Mountain-Marines.

Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.

bb1
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Post by bb1 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:18 pm

Probably 5-6 on each team (maybe more)

And no, this is just on asphalt and grass, there is not going to be much stealth element to it. Maybe asking a place with such battle-hardenned people was a bit of a mistake :oo:

SilentGuy
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Post by SilentGuy » Tue Apr 17, 2007 5:39 pm

Great news! Great job of taking the initiative too, you sound motivated!

1.

I only fight with people in my neighborhood - so it's easy for us to wear normal clothing and perhaps change out of it afterwards. That said, I generally wear a tee-shirt and sports shorts - light, loose clothing that doesn't absorb too much water. I don't fight when it gets cold to the point of wearing long sleeve shirts and pants.

Swimwear could be okay if you want to really soak each other and maybe change later. Light, regular clothing should work well though. You'll probably still want something to change into. Also, what type of fighting are you doing? One-hit-kill, three-hit-kill, targets (like tissue paper on tape), soakfest, etc.

2. The best gun, in my mind, are the Tiger Shark ($15) and the Orca ($20) - they're mid-priced and the best-performing soakers they currently have. However, in terms of the best deals, there are the Max-D 3000s or 2000s ($5 or so - they're large pistols, but their triggers will eventually break) and the Blastmaster 660s ($10 for a two-pack). The Max-Ds, which I saw at KMart, are pretty good. The Blastmasters, which I saw at Toys R Us, shoot each time you pump, and have decent performance if you pump them properly. The lower-priced 2007 Super Soakers might be okay, but don't expect any more range than for the guns I just mentioned, and the larger Super Soakers are mainly more expensive.

All in all, it comes down to how many water guns you're buying and how much money you're willing to spend. The Tiger Sharks and Orcas are the best guns. Period. Range, at least on the Orca, is better than the one or two CPS guns I've used before. The Tiger Shark probably performs as well as the Orca, but if you're getting a few water guns, the 25% lower price probably makes a difference. The only real difference is size and looks. (Make sure your hand fits in the Tiger Shark grip - otherwise some type of modding, if possible, might be necessary.)

3.

Your neighborhood sounds a lot like mine. I'm on a street that's on a tee, col-de-sacs on both sides, really wide roads, etc. This area is very hilly though, and because the people I fight with live here, we can fight in some of the yards. Try to get permission to fight in a few of the yards beforehand, if you're the only one living on the street - it's more interesting than fighting on a street.

If people are okay with it, invite some younger kids as well. That might free up another yard or two to fight in. :)

Rules - just agree to something beforehand and make sure people stick with it. Three hit kill, a tissue stuck to the body, or one hit kill lives (where you go to a place to respawn) should be a fun, challenging introduction that doesn't get people bored. Especially since you don't really want to go "hardcore."

Capture the flag sounds like it'll be fun with those numbers. Experiment with a few scenarios - like VIP (escorting a person to the destination), attack/defense of an objective, convoy (one team moves from point A to point B and the other team tries to stop them), smuggling (one team transports as many items as possible from point A to point B in a time limit or until they're all dead, the other team has infinite lives), etc. Just get people to move around and have fun!

******

You're not too "amateur." I fight exactly like what I've suggested, and few besides hamster/mutuhaha, Duxburian, marauder4, and maybe WaterWolf go hardcore with the teams and scenarios.

Wow, that's the third of WaterWolf's posts that's been blanked...do you know what's going on? Hope things get settled, it's gotta be pretty annoying. :)




Edited By SilentGuy on 1176850141

forestfighter7
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Post by forestfighter7 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 6:47 pm

1. My team also wears camo, but really it doesn't matter for the settings your fighting at. Swimsuits are fine, they dry off quickly which is good. All I would discourage wearing would be hugely bright clothes(pink, bright yellow, bright red)and very noisey jeans. Cargo pants are generally good unless the zippers and buttons clank around too much.

2. I suggest Buzz Bee's guns. they are cheap, and pretty good. The tigershark sounds good for it's price.

3.I suggest doing what SilentGuy said. I personally like 1hk with unlimited lives the most. You might also want to try a short soakfest. It can be fun as long as it doesn't go too long.

4. Try not to over-plan. It can lead to disapointment. Just try to have fun, without worrying about how "ameteur" you are. You have plenty of time to progress, and besides it really doesn't matter at all how "hardcore"you are. Just enjoy it. And one more thing:Remember that no matter how many people come, you will still have a good time. This is the most important thing I've learned in my soaking career.
If you would like to join the Superior Water Attack Team please pm me.
The soaker chooses the user, Harry Potter...
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bb1
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Post by bb1 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:07 pm

What is a soakfest? From what it sounds like, you spray someone so much that they can barely walk.

It isn't really my team that would have issues, I know guys that would strap bandanas around their forehead and rough it in the woods. It is the other team that I don't think is very soaker-savvy, they will most likely use weird tactics like just balloons and buckets of water (which will probably end in their ownage) The other team's captain's brother would make a better captain...Ahck sidetracked.

Isn't 1hk a little weird? *squirt* you go away. I guess it makes extended trips easier with conserving water. Each base would probably have one safe refill station with one "command post" (like from Battlefront II) In the middle, right where the road splits. It will open new spawn points when taken...

Ahead of myself again. I just wish I could have joined a hardcore team instead of starting my own. It is very strange, I never expected to captain a soaker team. I have at least 4 people with me at the time of this posting... But even afterwards there are no other teams out there in any neighborhoods (unless they hide out and wait to find new teams forming) near me. Alas,.

SilentGuy
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Post by SilentGuy » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:26 pm

Yup, a soakfest is just drenching everybody, no rules really.

Don't worry about the teams...you don't need to have a whole community devoted to soaking. Just have fun. You can even have a single team that splits and fights itself each time it meets.

1HK is kinda weird, but you have to factor in range and all as well. Some people require the hit to be fist-sized. Whatever works. ;)

My fights are usually 1v2...I want larger ones! I want to be able to do tactics on a larger scale and scenarios...ah well...'tis a shame everybody else is obsessed with airsoft.

DX
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Post by DX » Tue Apr 17, 2007 8:44 pm

1. My team is probably the most casual ever for our Progression levels. We wear whatever. Usually forest colors, sometimes camo, sometimes black, though it has never really mattered, except at night. Swimsuits are fine if the people who want to wear them anticipate getting soaked. :p However, if you plan to spend more time dishing it out than receiving, you might as well just wear a tee shirt and shorts. Long sleeves and pants aren't necessary unless you plan on running through thorn bushes or fighting in a "chilly" temperature [I say chilly because my idea of cold is about 30-60 degrees lower than most others'].

2. Like iSoaker, I'd see if teammates are able to acquire guns themselves before buying. Though, if there is uncertainty, too many is better than not enough. I actually like being able to provide my team with guns, for the RM arsenal guns often have much higher stats than private individuals' guns. I'd suggest the Orca, Tiger Shark, and Flash Flood for modern guns, though if you can get older CPSs, by all means do so!

3. I am personally a huge fan of the OHS [one hit scores] game family, in which players have infinite lives, but hits score points. This stops people from wasting lives and encourages teamwork. The game family includes OHS CTF, which allows for some very interesting variants of Capture the Flag. One such variant gives a point for each kill, but 5 or 10 points [depending on time limits] for each flag capture. In this way, capturing the enemy flag can end the round, but doesn't have to.

I'd recommend OHK Lives second. This is what I used to incorrectly call the RM's primary game type. OHK Lives is a variant in the OHK [one hit kills] game family where players are eliminated either after a certain amount of lives [like 3 or 5] or are eliminated only for a certain amount of time [say 2 minutes] with infinite lives. 1HK CTF variants are very similar to 1HS CTF, but focus more on killing rather than scoring.

OSF [organized soakfest] would be my third recommendation. There is no killing or scoring, just soaking. Team that gives in first or is more soaked after a certain time period loses. However, I'd do this toward the end, as a relaxing way to cap off the war.

All of these game types and game families will work for your battlefield. It would be nice to gain permission to use more yards and/or incorporate other things if they exist [like a local park, field, other open area, small forest, etc.]. If none are available, it doesn't matter. Straight suburban fighting is fun enough.

4. As others have stated, it doesn't matter how seriously you take the war as long as you have fun. That's what really counts. Serious hardcore warfare is relatively rare, just those who do it tend to be more vocal about it. I didn't even consider my wars that hardcore until somewhat recently, since we take our serious nature causally. There's also no pressure at all to progress in that direction. My first 6 years of water warfare were totally casual, often nothing more than the FFA [free for all] game family. They were great fun. My next 3 years were *a bit* more serious. They were great fun in a different kind of way. This year will be like no other, you might even see a bit of Diehard come out, heck if I know. As Forestfighter 7 said, just enjoy it. :cool:

EDIT: Didn't see other two posts.

It is very strange, I never expected to captain a soaker team.


You have no idea...lol As if I ever expected to command my own team when I started out. Or that local involvement would grow from 26 to 103. Or that I'd even be more of a tactician than a modder. Things change a lot with time.




Edited By Duxburian on 1176862273
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

bb1
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Post by bb1 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:04 pm

How do you keep track of score in the heat of combat?

Now, I doubt anyone will try to referee on individual shots, it'd probably be 1/2 soaked you go out and only flag caps score points. Micromanagement is so Rollercoaster Tycoon 3... That wasn't fun.

Thanks for all the input. I will probably wait till the end of spring-beginning of summer to actually set up dates, teams are still a bit scattered and I have no idea what's going on on the other team's fence...if she has a team yet!

DX
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Post by DX » Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:23 pm

I don't know - I've never thought much about it. Keeping track of the score has never been an issue. When someone thinks they have a kill, they announce it, then the enemy either agrees or calls for a timeout to dispute it. Score is frequently yelled to the other team during the beginning and end of engagements. This only really works with a strong honor system. People could easily lie, both about getting kills and being killed. In my local wars, not only are timeouts for disputes extremely rare, but so is cheating. We haven't had a blatant act of cheating in well over a year. Depends on how much you trust those you are fighting/with and how mature they are.

If you think keeping track of kills is micromanagement, then you should try the Founder Defense - no role/position even comes close to the difficulty of that. When using that defense, the person is responsible for all mistakes of their team - mental and physical, saving kills because of those mistakes, and along with the usual burdens of command, such as keeping track of the status of all players on both teams at all times, calling every level of tactic while considering every level of concept while considering other factors, all in real time! Not every commander has to do all of that, but I've got to go even farther, with preemption, counters at an instant's notice, and remembering what the enemy did at any given place at any given time in any of our past 18 ranked wars. This is during the day. Everything gets harder at night when you remove the benefit of vision!

Somehow, I don't consciously think about all this stuff, it just happens by instinct. Many people think some of the concepts I've come up with are amazingly abstract, but even those come as second-nature.




Edited By Duxburian on 1176863471
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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