2012 Community War

[DX]

6:42 AM that is. I need you to sit in an ambush position with a water cannon all night. I've already decided on a starting position and options for initial moves. Hope no one minds getting a bit close up and personal with mother nature. Course, this is only if we are required to have a team base. It's far more interesting if we do, but I hate being tethered to fixed defensive positions. Actually, now I can see 2 great starting positions...

[marauder]

If you have more than 5 people per team then team bases don't tie you down as much. You have enough people to guard the base and send people out wherever. Of course, I won't be there, and I can't guarantee my cousins can get a ride, although they really wanna go again. So I hope new people are able to turn up.

Wetmonkey and I ambush DX, Rambo, & Will:
http://youtu.be/m5PC8j7jkbY

[SEAL]

I found another battleground! This one is extremely thick; in some places you can't see 100 feet ahead of you. It requires a much different way of fighting than Dug Hill or that other place I found; a LOT of stealth is required. I've always wanted to have a battle in an environment like this, but the one downside is that the battlefield is smaller than the other local battlegrounds.
A while ago, I was lamenting that I had no good battling places near my house, but I obviously didn't know anything.

M4: I love that movie.

[marauder]

Y'all need to invite Chris Reed. Serious now.

[atvan]

That would be cool. Though iSoaker should be our priority. :p
And SSC Ben.

[DX]

M4 can have Chris, I'll take SSC Ben, and Atvan, you can have iSoaker :p

[scottthewaterwarrior]

Just do the first battle then, because I'd really like to hear it from your perspective. You were the last person on the other team, or was it 2nd to the last? eliminated.

I was the last eliminated. And I was rather surprised that I was the last, I didn't even have a cammo gun, I was sure you would see me, be you didn't. And if you guys had just gone a foot more I would have gotten Ben, he stopped just as I fired. If you had charged my at the beginning, DX, I think I would have gotten you, I had a pretty solid tree to hide behind. It was only later that I went out into the open because two of your teammates were coming at me from left and right, I needed room to dodge. If the 3 of you had charged me then I would have had no chance, especially the guys on the left and right, they had some pretty thick bushes to fire from, from my range I couldn't get more then a few feet into them before my stream got stopped by the branches. I was surprised that you got Seals brother before me too, he was even farther back then I was, and I don't think the kill shot on him came over my head either. I think who ever was in the bushes didn't realize they had my flanked on three sides and my back was to prickle bushes. They say paintball is better, but I’ve done it and my adrenalin level was never that high! Looking back I think about half the reason I lasted so long was just luck and the fact you didn’t know where your other teammates were. Dang, that is a lot of "if"s!

[marauder]

M4 can have Chris, I'll take SSC Ben, and Atvan, you can have iSoaker :p

If that comes with a team member for every soaker we have - then you're on.

I was the last eliminated. And I was rather surprised that I was the last, I didn't even have a cammo gun, I was sure you would see me, be you didn't. And if you guys had just gone a foot more I would have gotten Ben, he stopped just as I fired. If you had charged my at the beginning, DX, I think I would have gotten you, I had a pretty solid tree to hide behind. It was only later that I went out into the open because two of your teammates were coming at me from left and right, I needed room to dodge. If the 3 of you had charged me then I would have had no chance, especially the guys on the left and right, they had some pretty thick bushes to fire from, from my range I couldn't get more then a few feet into them before my stream got stopped by the branches. I was surprised that you got Seals brother before me too, he was even farther back then I was, and I don't think the kill shot on him came over my head either. I think who ever was in the bushes didn't realize they had my flanked on three sides and my back was to prickle bushes. They say paintball is better, but I’ve done it and my adrenalin level was never that high! Looking back I think about half the reason I lasted so long was just luck and the fact you didn’t know where your other teammates were. Dang, that is a lot of "if"s!

Your story is a lesson of cover and concealment vs camouflage. Cover is a physical object which hides you and cannot be shot through. An example of cover is a wall or a big tree. Concealment is something that prevents the enemy from seeing you, but can be shot through/you can still be hit by a waterballoon. An example of concealment is ferns, tall grass, and brush. Camo is artificial concealment. You had a very good defensive position with a little cover and a lot of concealment. Your need for camo wasn't great because of your defensive position. lastly, the Vindicator's colors don't stand out nearly as much as bright oranges, yellows, and reds. So you had a lot going for you.

At the beginning of the war, DX and I were actually worried that your entire team was hiding in that spot. We went around it by about 75m about 25 minutes in, but we did not get too close.

More thoughts on camo:
In the Vermin Wars it was common for people to wear a camo shirt or jacket, with jeans or cargo pants. The reason for this is that there is a lot of concealment close to the forest floor/and or tall grass in a field and thus your lower half is much more likely to be naturally concealed than your upper half. DX was this the case at Ridgewood as well?

Why did we get John before we got you? When odds are 2 to 1 surround the enemy. I sent Will behind your position and told him to stealth attack. DX, Rambo, and myself played diversion on the front 3 sides. We fired liberally in order to maintain your attention, but conservatively in that we didn't take any risky shots. On top of that, that Vindicator has a lot of shots/tank so you were sending a lot of water back our way. It was a good stand off. Will crawled in through the brush and surprised John up close with his 1500. After that, I knew we had you like a treed coon

[HBWW]

M4, are there any terms for objects that can't be shot through, but can be seen through? I'm sure the military will come up with one once we have transparent plasma energy shields like those in Halo anyways. =p

In any case, Dug Hill seems to have had a lot more actual cover than seems typical for most wooded areas I've seen both IRL and in photos.

[atvan]

Or they only fought in those locations because that provided the best battle opportunities. DX or M4, what would you consider at reed forest at where DX used to fight (Waterbridge or Goffle, whichever on had that)?

[DX]

Windows.

And I think Dug Hill has about average cover. Lots of trees, but not too many large ones. Boulders and ledges, but not that many of them. What it lacks is concealment. There were very few places to stage a good ambush, which is why camo played a pretty large role. Despite having huge dropoffs overall, the main playing area was very level. You could see a long distance through the center. Some forests have almost no understory, but limit sight due to frequent elevation changes, therefore providing a ton of concealment without having much to use.

The reed groves are concealment mostly. If you are in an ambush position 10 ft from the edge, you pretty much can't be seen, but could still be shot. However, if you are 50ft in, it could be cover as well - direct streams can shoot through the understory, but angled streams over the tops won't make it in too well if at all. However, to be cover, they need to be the most undisturbed groves, the ones taller than people with the biggest leaves. And you need to be deep inside.

[atvan]

We need to go too a place with elephant grass. speaking of, what would the WW equivalent of punji traps be? The buried water balloon?

[SEAL]

Alright, we should go over all the proposed locations to try and see which one's best. I will start things off, with the 3 locations in my area:

Dug Hill:
PROS: Amenities galore, if we get a reservation, we can have the pavilion, set up a stereo, use the BBQ grills, and camp out there; home to Thunder Gulch.
CONS: Like DX mentioned, there isn't much concealment in most areas; a good chance that someone else will reserve the pavilion before we can agree on a location; water spigots by the bathrooms, but lacks a reliable water source in the woods.

Massive Cliff Pond (Not official name.):
PROS: As the name suggests, gigantic cliffs, probably twice as high as the ones at Thunder Gulch; fairly reliable water source; decent cover and concealment.
CONS: We're technically not allowed to be there (Although cops rarely go there, if at all.); parking and unloading bound to be very difficult without attracting attention; water source may disappear in summer; no back up water source; no amenities to speak of, just us in the middle of the woods.

Thick Woods Creek (Also a placeholder name.):
PROS: I've never seen a suitable battlefield with better concealment; most reliable water source by far (Excluding Dug Hill's spigots.); near our main fighting area, which offers variety.
CONS: Private property (But there are no posted signs.); no good parking (Easier to unload though.); may be TOO thick for some; great concealment, but not much cover; the occasional pricker bush; some poison ivy; also no amenities; battlefield is smaller than the others (But it's not too bad.).

You guys should also post suitable battlegrounds in your area, similar to how I did it above.

[scottthewaterwarrior]

I'd personal like to have it in Dug Hill park again, that was great, a lot of variety. All the other location, being privit property and all, don't sound like a good idea. Would like to decide sooner, rather then later, so Seal can reserve the pavilion.

Possible battle areas around me:
*Sycamore Island: It is where I have my B-day party battle every year. It has clearly defined boundaries (its an island) but is probably too small. The island is probably as long as Dug Hill park but is rather narrow.. It does have two tree houses and some man made shelters, such as the canoe house and clubhouse, though we couldn't battle in the clubhouse, the tree houses are fair game. I doubt it would be good for what we want to do, but I figured I'd mention it anyway.
*The best place around me for what we want to do would be Carter Rock park. It is actually only about 5-10 minutes from my house. It has a big field, pavilion, and big wooded area with trails and such. It might suit our needs but I would like to explore it more. I used to go there for boy scouts but that was a long time ago. The only time recently I went it was close to dark so I didn't explore that much. I also am not sure if we would be allowed to stay over night.

[DX]

After reviewing the offerings around here, all of which have something major wrong with them, usually lack of camping and lodging, or being too popular and crowded, or not having enough parking, I'd be in favor of Dug Hill again. What could work is an expanded field, using the preserved land across the street from Dug Hill as a 2nd playing area. It has this huge cliffside hill thing that would make the most epic attack and defend round ever. According to GPS, it also has a stream somewhere. M4 and I did not see it, but now we know that it sits beyond line of sight from that cliff. Seal, any chance you could explore that tract of land? I'm curious to know if the stream is flowing or just vernal. Either way, it's a good option to mix up the scenery. To get to the cliff, take a left when you leave the parking lot entrance and walk almost to where the road has a slight bend to the left. There's a small trail there that takes you in. It's short, but gets you the cliff.

Edit:

Just looked at the map and there's 3 more areas in West Hurley worth considering.

Onteora Lake area. Public land with obvious water source and free camping permitted. Boatable for free, although none would be provided. Looks like a lot of good elevation changes. Actually has 2 lakes and 2 streams on the parcel.

Bluestone Wild Forest, the parcel east of Onteora Lake. Also free camping, looks wilder, but less water.

Bluestone, the parcel closer to Dug Hill (east of Dug Hill). Has flowing water in streams, free camping. Pretty much as large and as wild as the option above, but with good streams.

Out of these, the Onteora Lake one sounds and looks the best. It would have more amenities including parking, restrooms, and the such. Might also have a better staging area. It's all part of the same park, so the rules are pretty much the same.

[SEAL]

Onteora Lake doesn't have any restrooms (Or buildings of any kind.). If I remember correctly, the terrain is similar to Dug Hill, but I think there were some pretty cool areas deeper in, that you have to follow trails to get to. I was actually thinking about it for a naval battle. I haven't been there in a while though, so maybe an expedition is in order. The place is massive though, and unless we could get like 100 people, we shouldn't use all of it in the same round.

I don't think I've ever been in Bluestone Forest, but that reminds me that there are a ton of wild forests in the Catskill reigon, so we may be able to find a good area in one.

At any rate, it looks like I have a lot of exploring to do, and it makes me wish I had my driver's license really badly.

[marauder]

Thoughts on Dug Hill:

As DX mentioned, across the rd there is another fighting area. Maybe Seal can explore the area and report back on what it's like after you go down past that steep rocky cliff and make it to the creek.

Also, there IS a thickly vegitated area behind the gravel/asphault piles if you are facing towards the basketball court. We didn't fight there, but DX, Andrea, and I explored it this summer. It is very good for ambushes, but you won't be able to move quickly there. You could play a game or 2 there as well.

[marauder]

If anyone is interested, I can get us custom patches for the 2012 Community War. The kind that you'd sew onto BDUs or velcro onto digi camo. I'd foot the cost as my sponsorship. That is, IF people who are going are interested. let me know.

[SEAL]

That sounds cool. I was thinking about making some too, but I don't have any way to make them.

At any rate, it doesn't look like I'll be doing much exploring any time soon, because hunting season is on, and I don't want to get shot by careless hunters.

[DX]

Wear something blaze orange. An orange hat and a jacket with orange seams is pretty effective. It's something I didn't think about because my state still has blue laws and thus hunting is banned on Sundays, which is when I go exploring the most often. It's kind of ironic that some of the most "liberal" states also have some of the most "conservative" laws, but that's a discussion for another day.

Patches would be awesome.