Armory for a 10 Man Team

General questions and discussions on water warfare regarding tactics and strategies.
Post Reply
marauder
Posts: 3962
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:29 pm
Location: Clayton, NC
WWN League Team: Havoc
Contact:

Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by marauder » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:27 am

After our skirmish earlier today I was talking to my brother about our upcoming major water war at the end of the summer. We are predicting 20 people will show up. We then started talking about how we would ideally arm our 10 man team for 1 hit kills/capture the flag battles.

Kirk's Ideal 10 man Team
Heavy Gunner: CPS 3200
Heavy Gunner: CPS 2500 and SC 400
Scout: XP 150 or SS 100 m2 with CPS Aquapack Devastator
Rifleman: CPS 1500
Rifleman: CPS 1500
Rifleman: CPS 1500
Rifleman: CPS 1200
Rifleman: CPS 1200
Rifleman: CPS 1200
Rifleman: CPS 1200

Marauder_4's Ideal 10 Man Team
Heavy Gunner: CPS 3200
Heavy Gunner: CPS 2000
Heavy Gunner: CPS 2500
Heavy Gunner: Monster X
Scout: CPS Aquapack Devastator
Rifleman: CPS 1500
Rifleman: CPS 1500
Rifleman: CPS 1200
Rifleman: CPS 1200
Rifleman: CPS 1200


Of course the definition of Rifleman and Heavy Gunner isn't so black and white when dealing with CPS weaponry. Point being, those are the guns we decided we'd want on our team considering most people we fight with are strong enough to use whatever gun they wanted with ease (other than the MXL and 2700). Also, all 4 1200s I've tested have shot 40+ feet. If I had gotten 26 feet like Isoaker did (???) I would definitely not have picked them. I may sell some of my soakers on ebay and use the money to try to buy more of the ones listed above.

What would you choose?
https://hydrowar.wordpress.com/
SEAL wrote:If you ain't bloody and muddy by the end of the day, you went to a Nerf war.

User avatar
steelboot.
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:33 am
Location: workin, workin on the island, workin, all night long

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by steelboot. » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:32 am

steelboot's Ideal 10-man team

Scout: XP 310
Scout: XP 310
Scout: XP 310
HWO: CPS 3200, XP 270
Grunt: WW Vindicator
Grunt: WW Vindicator
Grunt: CPS 1000
Vanguard: CPS 2000, CPS 1200
Base Defense: CPS 2000, CPS 1000, XP 310
Base Defense: CPS 2500, CPS 1500

Only problem: I don't have all of those soakers, nor does my neighbourhood have an interest level that would supply 10 warriors.
Water Warrior for three summers and counting.
Was captain of a team, but team disbanded due to lack of interest.
Still love soakers.
SOAK AND DESTROY = BEST GAME EVER

teamfear
Posts: 228
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:35 pm

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by teamfear » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:09 pm

Team using My Armoury:
Commander (me): Vindicator, SS 50
HWO: Hydra Pak
HWO: CPS 1000
HWO: CPS 1500
Shotgunner: Splatter Shot
Shotgunner: Helix
Light: Max D 5k
Light (Rapid Assault): Max D 5k
Light: Pulse Blaster
Light: Flash Flood

My Strategy In wars is clogging the middle of the battle with the HWO's along with shotgunner escorts. The Light troops run along the outsides in pairs of two trying to flank the HWO's of the other team and push them into range of their own HWO's.

Best Ten Person Team:
HWO: CPS 2500 with SC Power Pak or other No Pumping Back up
HWO: CPS 3200 with SC Power Pak or other No Pumping Back up
Rifleman: CPS 1500 and side arm
Rifleman: CPS 1500 and side arm
Rifleman: CPS 1500 and side arm
Rifleman: CPS 1500 and side arm
Raider: CPS 1000 with water balloons
Raider: CPS 1000 with water balloons
Base Defence: CPS 2000 with Stream Machine or a homemade soaker
Base Defence: Monster XL with Stream Machine or a homemade soaker

The Hwo's can suppress with their heavy weapons but I made sure they have enough capacity to venture far from the base. They also have a pump free back up so they can be safe when they run out of pressure. The Rifleman have a decent overall 1500 and have decent mobility. As a side arm a triple shot would be a good choice because it gets good range and out put. Raiders should be fast and have compact but hard hitting blasters along with water balloons. The 1000's allow them to be mobile but still pack a good punch. They can use the balloons to assault HWO's before the heavy weapons can get in range. These two are the most likely to capture the flag. because of their mobility. Base defense should have high output weapons but they can fill up easily because they are near the base. A stream machine is also a useful base defense asset. Homemade soakers should be considered for base defense as well. For CTF having more mobile raiders than riflemen might be better and maybe on capture specialist or two with a highly mobile XP 105 that packs a punch.

User avatar
Adrian
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 6:05 pm
Location: WI, USA
Contact:

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by Adrian » Sun Jul 05, 2009 6:06 pm

I prefer to think in terms of soaker "classes." Here's my ideal team armament.

~Everyone is issued a pistol, no exceptions. Storm guns only, no exceptions. 750 sized or above.
~Everyone is issued a rifle or shotgun style soaker. Individual user gets to pick between the two.
~~If the terrain is heavily wooded, the rifle will be a Pirahna.
~~If the terrain is more open, the rifle will be a CPS 2500 or 2000mk2.
~~Shotgun style soakers are CPS3000 series or modded CPS 1000 series.

The pistol is non-negotiable because it's a last-ditch defense. It's a Storm because I've seen probably a dozen Super Soaker pistols go down through normal use, and only 2 Storms give up the ghost through abuse. The 750 is the minimum suitable size for a defensive pistol.

For heavily wooded areas or other tight quarters, the Pirahna combines the best attributes of the rifle with a small package. Sort of a PDW concept. For open terrain, my team would be issued soaker RIFLES and would be told to aim. I cannot over emphasize the necessity of a rifle, they give you an unbeatable advantage in power and range. As long as you aim. None of this shoot from the hip crap.

Shotguns would be 3000 series or modded 1000 series because they're both short and powerful, and that's the only advantage of a shotgun style soaker. You don't do distance work with a shotgun, that's why you should have a rifle. Shotgun styles are useful for close woods or wildly uneven terrain (ditches, hilly areas, etc), places where you want near-rifle power, in a PDW size. Places where you can't swing a CPS 2500 around and actually aim. With a CPS 3200 set on Typhoon, or a 1000series with a bored out nozzle, you don't need to aim, you just need to point.

I would put a team armed thusly, who had fought multiple times as a team up against any other team.

Adrian
“To achieve a World Government it is necessary to remove from their minds their individualism, their loyalty to family traditions, national patriotism and religious dogma.”…..Brock Adams, Director, United Nations Health Organisation.

User avatar
steelboot.
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:33 am
Location: workin, workin on the island, workin, all night long

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by steelboot. » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:18 am

Well, this is what I could do with the soakers I have:

Scout: XP 270
Scout: XP 270
Scout: XP 270
Rifleman: CPS 1500
Rifleman: CPS 2110
Shotgunner: XP 270 riot blast
Vanguard: CPS 1100
Grunt/Forward: WW Vindicator
Grunt/Forward: MI Flash Flood
Grunt/Forward: MI Flash Flood

Wow, that doesn't look all that bad!
Water Warrior for three summers and counting.
Was captain of a team, but team disbanded due to lack of interest.
Still love soakers.
SOAK AND DESTROY = BEST GAME EVER

HBWW
Posts: 4104
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:12 pm
Location: MI
WWN League Team: Havoc

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by HBWW » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:34 am

Adrian, the Piranha is, honestly, a piece of crap, at least the one that I have. Not only is the large nozzle very underpowered, the trigger is unreliable and leaky. Ergonomically, the back pressure gauge trigger needs to be removed and the front pump handle is poorly shaped. Lightest I'd go for standard "rifles" is the 1000, which has comparable weight, much better balance and handling, and obviously, much better performance. The Piranha is more of a carbine, working only for CQB engagements. (but in that case, something like a FF or even any pistol would work at least as well; there are much better WW's around anyway) With that said, if the Piranha works great for you, then so be it.

My Max-D pistols haven't broken down yet, though they've seen minimal use and it's been 2 or 3 years. The smaller Max-D's may fit in pockets better, but the Storm guns (or at least the one I tried, the 750 I believe) have better handling and capacity. However, my friend's Storm is having slight problems, mainly with the cap sealing. I also personally don't like pumps that work when pulling out.

IMO, water guns are an exception for shooting from the hip. (everything else - laser tag, nerf, airsoft, real guns - must be aimed with the stock, not like the bull you see in movies) Aiming from the shoulder is simply unecessary and if you have a good idea where the blaster is pointed, it's not difficult to pull off an accurate shot when holding the gun with the reservoir below the arm, and you can still line up the blaster with your line of vision to ensure horizontal accuracy. Vertically, more approximation is required, but you're not going to go calculating stream trajectories in real time. After all, all water blasters are very close range weapons, their streams spread out a lot, and all are very easy to shoot "accurately" when compared to projectile and laser based blasters.


With that said, here's mine for a versatile assault team:

Standard-issue equipment - Required unless noted:
- Handgun (can be any as long as it can maintain a stream i.e. no pistons unless they can maintain a stream with at least range of a Max-D)
- .5L bottles or backpack
- Unfilled water balloons (always a must - they present no encumberance and allow you to make one if ever necessary)
- Filled balloons (optional unless required where noted) up to 3
- Mobile or immobile shield of any kind (optional for all classes)

WBL Crew/Fireteam Charlie:
- WBL operator: Breech-loaded WBL w/ onboard air pump/compressor + Light blaster (such as FF or Max-D6k/XP105/110/310) + 5 filled balloons (more if bottles ommited)
- WBL assistant: Nothing less than a Vindicator as primary, + 5 filled balloons (more if bottles ommited)
- Standard "rifleman": One CPS 10k, 12k, or 21k. (any combination of them, I don't care)

> CPS/Hydropower recommended for easier water balloon filling, but it doesn't matter.
> For better WBL's, such as the one mentioned, only 2 members may be necessary. In that case, the 3rd one can be moved to one of the squads.
> For more primitive WBL's (such as the Douchenator), the 3rd crewmember should stay in to assist.
> If a WBL crew is unecessary and/or counterintuitive to the team and their tactics/environment, the crewmembers can be replaced with the standard or heavy rifleman setups. This squad can also be disbanded and it's members moved to Delta and Alpha for 2 5-man squads. (a real standard squad consists of 6 people, but in water warfare, 3 or 4 should create a tactical equivilent)

Alpha Squad:
- Standard "rifleman" (same as above)
- Same
- Heavy "rifleman": One CPS 2500, 2000, 2700, 1500, monster, or similar. (2500, 1500, or monster prefered, water bottles can be ommited for 2700)
- Heavy Support: One CPS 3000, 3200, APH/CPH w/ backpack or SS/XP300 (must have backpack! water bottles optional) Optional: Additional light blaster

Delta Squad:
- Standard "rifleman"
- Heavy "rifleman"
- Another "rifleman" either standard or heavy

For Alpha and Delta squads, up to 2 of the standard "riflemen" can be replaced with the following:
- Mobile CQB: Light blaster: FF, Max-D6k/XP105/110/310, Tiger Shark, etc. No crap like the splat blaster, piston guns, or anything of that sort.
HydroBrawl Water Warfare

Discord: g0dSamnit#4723

marauder
Posts: 3962
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:29 pm
Location: Clayton, NC
WWN League Team: Havoc
Contact:

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by marauder » Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:40 am

Wow, I'd really like to test some of these lineups in a real war! Especially Adrian's and C-A_99's. Of course tactics, organization, and skill are more important than weapons, but if you could test with relatively equal skill that would be awesome... my brother and I are equally skilled and I'm able to test guns in a 1 on 1 format that way.
Dude, Steelboot, you have a lot of XP 270s. What was your reason for buying so many? And MI stands for what again?
https://hydrowar.wordpress.com/
SEAL wrote:If you ain't bloody and muddy by the end of the day, you went to a Nerf war.

HBWW
Posts: 4104
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:12 pm
Location: MI
WWN League Team: Havoc

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by HBWW » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:26 pm

I'd like to test them too... I don't have that many CPS's though. The basic idea for mine is that most skilled players are at least as mobile with a 12k (and similar) as with say, a good XP, they're usually equal when carrying nothing else. (except for the standard equipment) However, since the 12k has a lot more range and stream saturation, it is prefered. On the other hand, if someone is carrying a heavy CPS or WBL, the weight of the lighter weapon becomes a much more important consideration. Basically, one can carry a certain amount of weight (given proper distribution) before mobility is severely hampered. Any weight will slow you down of course, but there comes a point where tiring becomes quick and movement slows down significantly.

The lineup I made accounts for average to high skill. For the unskilled, I'd probably give them the CQB combo, otherwise I'd give nothing higher nor heavier than a standard "rifleman" combination. The main deterent for unskilled players is finding a blaster with longer shot time, but consequently, that tends to mean less range as well. Otherwise, for most players, I'd be fine with them using guns even as difficult as the CPS 2000. (however, IMO the 2000's range is not justifiable with it's very high pump to tap-shot ratio; my CPH and hose, with a good nozzle, can outrange it. Thus, I prefer the 2500 instead, using the 5x or 10x nozzles) Aside from shot time and pump to tap ratio, the 2000/2500 are still fairly light when strapped, and easy to strap and use. The XL is where the trouble comes in. Though I haven't used it in battle, it's low shot time, heavy weight, and range less than the 2000/2500 are factors to consider.

MI = Max-Infusion... or so I'd think. Newer guns tend to see less abbreviation so I don't use them. (except for very common ones like the FF, but I tend not to abbreviate Max-D)
HydroBrawl Water Warfare

Discord: g0dSamnit#4723

User avatar
steelboot.
Posts: 269
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:33 am
Location: workin, workin on the island, workin, all night long

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by steelboot. » Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:34 pm

@M4: C-A_99 is right, MI stands for Max Infusion. MI soakers' reservoirs can be expanded via a Max Infusion backpack aka aquapack. The reason I add MI is so that the soaker is not confused with the STE (Soaker Tag: Elite) Flash Flood. Though I now realize they're the same thing except the reverse threaded cap which allows for aqupack connection, but whatever.

The reason I have so many XP 270's is because my local Canadian Tire has them on sale; a twin-pack for twelve dollars. I got two twin packs packs and a neighbour of mine got one, so that's six XP 270's in our team's accessible armoury. My first soaker was an XP 270, but I gave it away because I never used it, so I thought it would be nice to get some.
Water Warrior for three summers and counting.
Was captain of a team, but team disbanded due to lack of interest.
Still love soakers.
SOAK AND DESTROY = BEST GAME EVER

HBWW
Posts: 4104
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:12 pm
Location: MI
WWN League Team: Havoc

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by HBWW » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:12 pm

At most, I'd still only get a few of them, no more than 2 or 3 otherwise they start to clutter up the armory.
HydroBrawl Water Warfare

Discord: g0dSamnit#4723

Silence
Posts: 339
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by Silence » Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:54 pm

Just wanted to chime in about shooting from the hip. Like C-A 99, I've never seen much use for it in water war. I mean, sure, keep an eye on the horizontal alignment...which is easy enough from the hip, or maybe a little closer to the body. But perfecting the horizontal alignment is 100% useless given the arc of the stream. You could use a grenade-launcher–style sight, but then you'd need a rangefinder if you wanted to be exact, or use your intuition. In which case you might as well intuit everything and skip the aiming, and the human brain is well tuned for this type of thing.

HBWW
Posts: 4104
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:12 pm
Location: MI
WWN League Team: Havoc

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by HBWW » Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:03 pm

Or something like this: http://www.angelfire.com/sports/gng/snipertactics.htm
Scope on a rope. But was that scope mounted at a perfect 45° angle? And it doesn't have tick marks for rangefinding down the vertical crosshair. Even without modern water warfare tactics put in consideration, the sniping articles there are still rather amusing. Really though, equipment like this is only necessary on WBL's, and even then you still don't have a good chance of hitting targets that are too far away. It's much easier to charge into range and fire. I'll assume they put one on the 12k simply for militaristic appearance. (of course, without good WBL's being available at the time.

As for blasters, I don't even go for horizontal alignment that often. I hold it simply from the hip and approximate where it goes based on how I'm holding the gun. As soon as the first shot leaving the nozzle goes out, I can start compensating for any slight inaccuracies in the shot. Most shots that are arc'd higher than 45° can be easily dodged and won't saturate the target upon landing.
HydroBrawl Water Warfare

Discord: g0dSamnit#4723

DX
Posts: 3484
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:35 am
Contact:

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by DX » Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:41 am

DX's ideal [Dream] 10 man team [using any guns possible]

Player 1: CPS 2250C [int] light
Player 2: CPS 2250C [int] moderate
Player 3: CPS 2250C [int] moderate
Player 4: CPS 2250C [int] heavy
Player 5: CPS 15K light
Player 6: CPS 15K moderate
Player 7: CPS 15K moderate
Player 8: CPS 15K heavy
Player 9: CPS 12K heavy
Player 10: CPS 12K heavy


DX's ideal [Realistic] 10 man team [using guns I actually own that are in working order]

Player 1: CPS 2000
Player 2: CPS 2500
Player 3: CPS 2500
Player 4: CPS 15K light
Player 5: CPS 1500
Player 6: CPS 1500
Player 7: CPS 1500
Player 8: CPS 12K moderate
Player 9: CPS 12K heavy
Player 10: CPS 10K/21 [int] moderate

I don't mess around - I can bring out some serious firepower. With these kinds of guns, one can focus on more specialized-use secondaries, if any at all.

Optional additions to the primaries:

Player 1: Backpack with 8 filled water balloons in cans
Player 2: Backpack with Max-D 5000, bag of unfilled balloons
Player 3: Backpack with Max-D 5000, bag of unfilled balloons
Player 4: Backpack with Douchenator G1 barrel
Player 5: Backpack with Douchenator G1 pc
Player 6: Backpack with Douchenator G1 barrel
Player 7: Backpack with Douchenator G1 pc
Player 8: Backpack with 8 filled water balloons in cans
Player 9: Backpack with 8 filled water balloons in cans
Player 10: Backpack with 8 filled water balloons in cans

This is a versatile setup designed for speed, power, and mobility. The 2 launchers are the shortest version, meant for mortar-like use. They are transported disassembled to ease mobility. If the enemy does not know what is in the backpacks, they may be caught off-guard by a sudden appearance of artillery. G1 Douchenators are the most basic launchers, but my intention is not to win artillery duels. G1s are small and light enough to go into and fire from really dense terrain where bigger launchers can't operate effectively.

The same reasoning is used for the Max-D 5000 and unfilled balloons. The 2500 users can field-fill balloons off their nozzles. They carry MD 5K's in backpacks, which can also field-fill. While field-filling steals precious water from your gun, it can be a deadly surprise and a nice stand-off breaker. This trick capability is a must-have if you hate stand-offs.

I used Player #'s and did not assign positions. I don't use gun-based positions, I favor line positions instead, and even those are not static. I don't think I actually posted a line system before...never got around to that. Basically, line formations have certain parts: I named mine Anchor, Post, Center, Point, Line, and Guard. The three that matter most are Anchor [strategic/strong flank], Post [tactical/active flank] and Center [center of the line]. The players in these spots fight a bit differently. I usually place my best gun and/or fastest player on Post. Since this 10 player setup is pretty stacked, just about any of the players could pull off that position [but they need to be aggressive]. The most level-headed players take center, as they have to hold the line together. Anchor requires a good gun and a versatile player, this is the flank that keeps the line steady and secure, such as against an obstacle like a brook. Point is the furthest player forward, good range is necessary and good dodging/skirmishing skills. Line and Guard are general positions along ordinary parts of the line. Guard is usually used for defensive purposes such as covering refillers, as opposed to line, which is more used for engaging the enemy.

I've tried to create a setup that has many potential strengths and very few weaknesses. Some preparations, such as caching one-time speciality weapons like AP water cannons on the battlefield, are a bit excessive for ordinary wars and have been omitted.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

marauder
Posts: 3962
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:29 pm
Location: Clayton, NC
WWN League Team: Havoc
Contact:

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by marauder » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:16 am

C-A_99 wrote:Or something like this: http://www.angelfire.com/sports/gng/snipertactics.htm
Scope on a rope. But was that scope mounted at a perfect 45° angle? And it doesn't have tick marks for rangefinding down the vertical crosshair. Even without modern water warfare tactics put in consideration, the sniping articles there are still rather amusing. Really though, equipment like this is only necessary on WBL's, and even then you still don't have a good chance of hitting targets that are too far away. It's much easier to charge into range and fire. I'll assume they put one on the 12k simply for militaristic appearance. (of course, without good WBL's being available at the time.

As for blasters, I don't even go for horizontal alignment that often. I hold it simply from the hip and approximate where it goes based on how I'm holding the gun. As soon as the first shot leaving the nozzle goes out, I can start compensating for any slight inaccuracies in the shot. Most shots that are arc'd higher than 45° can be easily dodged and won't saturate the target upon landing.
C-A I think that we fight entirely different, and there's nothing wrong with that. To each his own. However, respect must paid where it is due. I have fought with XN before and I can tell you whether it sounds silly or not he would destroy most everyone on this board, including myself. Out of 2 days worth of fighting he was only eliminated once. Having a scope on a watergun might sound silly, and it may not work for you or me, but it worked for XN. He always got his man. He also inspired a lot of the high tech modding you see today even if he didn't invent it.
Often times we would have someone completely concealed and have the enemy chase us by where they were hiding, using them as a sniper. I have hidden in mulch piles, under the house, up in tall trees (CPS 2000 50 feet up in DW2 I killed everyone that came by). "Sniping" doesn't always mean hitting someone from superior range, that's not how XN felt and that's not how I feel. Yes, range is a HUGE advantage but there are certain circumstances when this advantage is voided. I don't know how many of you fight at night in the woods, but about 50% of my fights in highschool were this type and we fought several times a week during the summers from 8th through 10th grade. Accuracy was extremely important. Usually we'd be 10-15 ft from each other before one of us would recognize that other people were around. Even if that's enough of an advantage to eliminate one of your opponents you need to take proper aim at your first target and then swing your shot to the other target in order to score multiple eliminations without being hit yourself. It takes about 1/4 second for the brain to perceive what's going on and to react. I've been eliminated over poor shots before.
Firing from the hip is fine in open running around chasing each other fights, and most of my recent battles have been like this, but there are types battles that some people have where aiming is important and can make all the difference between you making the kill or being the kill.
https://hydrowar.wordpress.com/
SEAL wrote:If you ain't bloody and muddy by the end of the day, you went to a Nerf war.

DX
Posts: 3484
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:35 am
Contact:

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by DX » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:26 am

I agree with M4 that firing from the hip doesn't work in a serious fight. "Shit he's right THERE! BOOM" Sometimes you have a fraction of a second to aim, fire, and make the hit. There are situations where you HAVE to make the hit. When the clock is ticking and the adrenaline is rushing, it is even more difficult to aim well. Both Waterbridge and my team loved to throw all kinds of ambushes - from under the bridges, in the reeds, from a dry slit channel of a pond dam...you gotta have reflex accuracy or you're toast.

M4, I'd think that's closer to ambushing than sniping. A good ambusher can take the time to line up a perfect shot, but it's usually close range, even within 5 ft. Shooting from a tree...now that might count as sniping.

Oh and night battles are insanely awesome. The RM Classic in '06 was probably the most intense war I ever had - we had WBL's too, they really change the dynamics of the game at night. Limited use and not too intimidating during the day...but at night...where is the enemy launcher? Is it pointed at you this very second? In our duel across the brook, a fake shot was enough to get a whole team to hit the deck. The Douchenators didn't get any hits in that war...but they certainly upped the adrenaline level.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

HBWW
Posts: 4104
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:12 pm
Location: MI
WWN League Team: Havoc

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by HBWW » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:44 am

I didn't mean to downplay nor disrespect GnG or anyone there, and I apologize for that. It just seems like an unecessary cost to add. Using a PVC tube for long range shots provides a similar way of aiming, and aiming from the shoulder without any aiming devices already provides good accuracy. Horizontal aim, without any aiming devices, is already easy to line up, and vertical aim is not difficult to approximate. If you want to be accurate vertically, you can build a rangefinder. (which won't help much when the wind comes in) The scope used does not help with vertical accuracy , only with perfect horizontal line-up, which is unecessary due to the general deviations and spread-out of the stream. Having to sight through a scope also takes longer, but at the end, it's all a matter of preference; no different than prefering tracked or free pumps, or apples or oranges, and I'll leave it at that.

As for aiming, I got the last part of my post wrong; I actually fire from the shoulder or the armpit most of the time, and I didn't really notice that "firing from the hip" puts the blaster that low - way too low for it to be used as reference to where you're aiming. Still, firing from the hip works at close ranges if you're good, but I almost always hold the blaster up higher, leaving it down at the hip or pointing it downwards if I'm running. In either case, firing short sustained shots (up to 1 second) instead of tap shots works well if the wind is choppy or if the target is difficult to hit. You have to be fast and with many guns, cannot sustain the shot too long, but it ensures better coverage and works faster than firing several tap shots into the same space.

Our battlefield provides substantially less cover than what it seems like you guys fight in. This results in stealth tactics having less impact because chances are, you're going to get spotted moving along the foliage anyway. This also results in a lot less ambushes, but any of them that do occur usually no more than 5 ft. The only way to ensure a kill here is to get close to point blank range (20ft or so, where the stream barely starts to arc), and at that range, firing from the shoulder or armpit provides good accuracy and aiming speed. For far range shots, they can be dodge, and in nearly all cases, the enemy will know you're there, or will see or hear the shot.

While I've never been in situations where complete, 100% stealth is necessary, there seems to be 3 general options for ambush "sniping". (given your target is reasonably in range) The first is the kind the scope is designed for; 1 shot, 1 kill. Shooting less means less exposure from cover, and lower chances that another enemy will see the shot. The second is firing a short sustained shot or a series of tap shots and adjusting aim randomly to compensate for wind and enemy movement. (if the enemy is walking but not expecting the shot and therefore not going to dodge or even get down) This method gives a higher chance of a hit but risks giving away the shooter's position from the added streams and more sounds from the gun. The third option is with water balloons. If you're in that situation and you or someone else is accurate with water balloons, you might as well toss one. A small pneumatic launcher is also possible, which virtually guarantees a kill at that range, but would probably give away your position and longer to load up.

Night wars sound interesting. In most cases you can't see the enemy until they're in range (with due exceptions to moonlight, flashlights, etc.), which is often true of real warfare that takes place in closer areas with more cover. I'll need to try such a war sometime but they're more difficult to organize.
HydroBrawl Water Warfare

Discord: g0dSamnit#4723

marauder
Posts: 3962
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2004 9:29 pm
Location: Clayton, NC
WWN League Team: Havoc
Contact:

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by marauder » Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:38 pm

You guys should come down here for my next big war. It looks like it's going to end up on the 15th instead of the 1st of next month. It's going to be awesome. I suppose that the sniping we do is more like ambushing than sniping, either way I like hitting people when they least expect it.
https://hydrowar.wordpress.com/
SEAL wrote:If you ain't bloody and muddy by the end of the day, you went to a Nerf war.

Silence
Posts: 339
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:01 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by Silence » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:03 pm

Still curious, how do you guys figure out what angle to fire at? Or by "aiming" do you just mean the horizontal alignment? xN's setup aside, maybe the vertical alignment doesn't matter so much since (standing) targets tend to be taller than they are wider.

Good point about the fighting styles, though. Like C-A 99, I only seem to play in suburban backyards. And unlike all of you, I only seem to use weaker water guns, which fire maybe half as far as most of yours do. Long shot time and short ranges mean pointing is about as effective as aiming is.

HBWW
Posts: 4104
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 7:12 pm
Location: MI
WWN League Team: Havoc

Re: Armory for a 10 Man Team

Post by HBWW » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:16 pm

Personally, I still keep the term sniping for WBL's and high range. The trademark of sniping is that you can kill from a distance, AND not be spotted. If you "snipe" with a water blaster, you WILL be noticed and people will be after you. (unless the target was isolated from everyone else) For long range soaker attacks, I'd prefer the term... sharpshooting perhaps. In paintball, it's called longballing (even they don't seem to use the term sniper, unless playing in mil-sim I'd guess), and it'd be nice if we had another term for it.

If I'm lucky, I may be able to make long-distance drives next summer to participate in online-hosted wars. We'll have to see...
HydroBrawl Water Warfare

Discord: g0dSamnit#4723

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 3 guests