Troubles

General questions and discussions on water warfare regarding tactics and strategies.
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Evangel
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Troubles

Post by Evangel » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:06 pm

I've just realized something. My team stands no chance in this organized environment. I know this is gonna sound totally insane to you normal people, but I don't really care anymore.

I thought we were highly skilled, but we only play soakfests, which everyone seems to look down on to a rather large degree, because that's the only way we played as kids and we play by no rules other than street rules, meaning NO rules. Our wars back then were always serious matters, aimed at taking over neighborhoods by retiring opposing water gunning kids. For us, it was all about long-drawn street wars between rivaling gangs of unruly kids. Those were good times, considering we LOST almost every war. Of course, much like in most of our hobbies, being idiotic simpleton 10-year-olds we were, we THOUGHT we were all good, when little did we know of the hidden world beneath, this world in this case, one where soakfests are considered lowest of low.

We tried 1HK rules recently and it was a total disaster, and many of our weapons and tactics were rendered impractical, with the CPS2000 standing pretty much top-tier for it's accuracy and range. Close-range combat, my specialty, was utterly pointless since I have to risk at least SOME damage to get in range. Not much practicality there if that "some" damage, even a droplet, is enough to kill me, and I'm too weak physically to properly handle heavier longer-range weapons.

Whatever we do, we always seek power and notoriety, and that means entering the professional world should one arise. But if elimination rules are the standard, and soakfest isn't even a consideration, chances are we'd never stand any chance against anyone. And if we couldn't compete in such an environment, we saw no reason to continue pursuing the hobby in question.

This is a special case though, seeing that this is the only remaining link we have to our childhoods. I stuck with this as long as I did because I realized how much more powerful I've become since those days, and I was hoping to finally make things right in my life. No doubt our games today are very fun due to our new abilities opening whole new options and areas, but if we can't compete professionally, it's no different than being a bunch of simpleton 10yo's again, oblivious to the world that lies beneath. Is this really my calling? Or is it just another massive waste of money, like every other hobby I've tried?

I am however notorious at Armored Core 4, this I know for a fact. Perhaps I should stick with that?

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isoaker
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Re: Troubles

Post by isoaker » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:21 am

Evangel, you are getting troubled over that which should not be troubling at all, but you need to look at the overall perspective.

The goal is NOT to create nothing but an organized water warfare environment.

My goals overall have not changed. I wish to both promote water warfare in general and see better performing stock water blasters on the market.

From these main goals, I've presently concluded that working on developing more organized game play that's accessible to more individuals should help increase general interest by adding an objective scoring/winning-determining method to games. Competition could thus help spur on interest and turning a loosely defined game into a more definable sport would allow tournament-type events to be help more easily. Presently, were one trying to organize a tournament, it becomes tricky when it gets to the part about figuring out how or who to give out prizes to without a defined method of figuring out who is winning during a water war. Honor systems may work for local groups, but when you mix strangers together with the thought of a prize in the air, honor can quickly give way to cheating in order to win the prize.

That said, no where in this plan involves putting down or dismissing present game play types people enjoy. In fact, I'm hoping increased interest will, in turn, promote all aspects of water warfare and Soakerdom. While I'm hoping to get the community's help in defining some rules for organized game play, I doubt many of my own games will be of the truly organized type; I, too, prefer more generalized soakfests over OHK or OHS games. When soaking with people you know, you can get a sense of who is dominating. Unfortunately, while it'd be great to have a similar system for use in tournaments, it is exceedingly difficult to objectively determine which side is winning in a larger soakfest where non-players would likely be required to track scoring.

Having an available systemized set of rules for organized water warfare should not detract, rather enhance water war by giving another game type(s) for people to try. I also foresee increased interest in competition through organized games as a means to spur on all sorts of innovation in the water warfare arena. Modders and homemade builders are likely the first to gain as they'll be the ones able to capitalize first on increased need for higher performing water blasters while manufacturers test the market. Water war tacticians will also have a chance to hone specific new tactical ideas once set rules are in place.

All this, however, is going to take some time to develop. I would never wish to see the demise of the good ol' understood soakfest and fighting styles of today that just seem so natural at times. In fact, the current push for organization should hopefully also result in greater interest in the good ol' soakfest as more get interested in water blasters in general.

In the end, whether to soak or not is an individual choice. No one should ever tell you that you MUST soak or MUST NOT soak. It should forever be a choice you make based on whether you find it still fun for you and those you soak with. For me, despite my current push for more organization, I still and always shall love running around on hot summer days like a bunch of simpleton 10yo's again with people both younger and older than myself to cool off and just have a fun free-for-all blast.

For me, soaking is timeless and ageless.

:cool:
:: Leave NO one dry! :: iSoaker.com .:

Gold Hawk
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Re: Troubles

Post by Gold Hawk » Sat Mar 29, 2008 4:48 am

isoaker_com wrote:Evangel, you are getting troubled over that which should not be troubling at all, but you need to look at the overall perspective.

The goal is NOT to create nothing but an organized water warfare environment.

My goals overall have not changed. I wish to both promote water warfare in general and see better performing stock water blasters on the market.

From these main goals, I've presently concluded that working on developing more organized game play that's accessible to more individuals should help increase general interest by adding an objective scoring/winning-determining method to games. Competition could thus help spur on interest and turning a loosely defined game into a more definable sport would allow tournament-type events to be help more easily. Presently, were one trying to organize a tournament, it becomes tricky when it gets to the part about figuring out how or who to give out prizes to without a defined method of figuring out who is winning during a water war. Honor systems may work for local groups, but when you mix strangers together with the thought of a prize in the air, honor can quickly give way to cheating in order to win the prize.

That said, no where in this plan involves putting down or dismissing present game play types people enjoy. In fact, I'm hoping increased interest will, in turn, promote all aspects of water warfare and Soakerdom. While I'm hoping to get the community's help in defining some rules for organized game play, I doubt many of my own games will be of the truly organized type; I, too, prefer more generalized soakfests over OHK or OHS games. When soaking with people you know, you can get a sense of who is dominating. Unfortunately, while it'd be great to have a similar system for use in tournaments, it is exceedingly difficult to objectively determine which side is winning in a larger soakfest where non-players would likely be required to track scoring.

Having an available systemized set of rules for organized water warfare should not detract, rather enhance water war by giving another game type(s) for people to try. I also foresee increased interest in competition through organized games as a means to spur on all sorts of innovation in the water warfare arena. Modders and homemade builders are likely the first to gain as they'll be the ones able to capitalize first on increased need for higher performing water blasters while manufacturers test the market. Water war tacticians will also have a chance to hone specific new tactical ideas once set rules are in place.

All this, however, is going to take some time to develop. I would never wish to see the demise of the good ol' understood soakfest and fighting styles of today that just seem so natural at times. In fact, the current push for organization should hopefully also result in greater interest in the good ol' soakfest as more get interested in water blasters in general.

In the end, whether to soak or not is an individual choice. No one should ever tell you that you MUST soak or MUST NOT soak. It should forever be a choice you make based on whether you find it still fun for you and those you soak with. For me, despite my current push for more organization, I still and always shall love running around on hot summer days like a bunch of simpleton 10yo's again with people both younger and older than myself to cool off and just have a fun free-for-all blast.

For me, soaking is timeless and ageless.

:cool:
What he said. :goofy:

You don't need to play OHK. My team doesn't. We just judge who has won based on how soaked each person is.

-Gold
HydroHawks Command CenterNEW REPORT! APARTMENT MASSACRE!

"Missing isn't the worst part. The retaliation is." -Commander Gold Hawk

"Exsisto validus, fortis aequora." (Be strong, brave the water.) -Motto Of the HydroHawks

Silence
Posts: 339
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2007 3:01 pm
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Re: Troubles

Post by Silence » Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:16 pm

I usually play soakfest, too. I don't think you can find any two organizations here that play with the same rules. And only half of them are 1HK.

HBWW
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Re: Troubles

Post by HBWW » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:48 pm

Our teams tried some 1HK last summer, which turned the 10k and 12k into the best weapons we've had. Personally, I also haven't done very well on 1HK due to my inability to quickly dodge, charge-fire-retreat, etc. Tactically, my suggestion here would be to make heavy use of cover and/or guerilla tactics; they should help make shorter ranged soakers more useful. What rules were played by? Was a kill defined as any noticeable amount of water or fist sized?

BTW, check your PM's. After a look at the teams info section on iSc, I thought it'd be possible to organize a war this summer with your team.
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emperor_james
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Re: Troubles

Post by emperor_james » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:13 pm

im pretty sure theres no professional soaker teams
ownage

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