Aquatic aSsault Squad (ASS) water wars - updates, info, thoughts, ramblings, etc.

General questions and discussions on water warfare regarding tactics and strategies.
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HBWW
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Post by HBWW » Fri May 04, 2007 4:13 pm

Well I thought it might be a good idea to make a thread to keep updates on my wars, teams, etc. (though I do admit I started this thread after reading one of DX's posts lol) Last updates would be the birthday party war, which has been up for a few weeks. Now, to cover the rest...

The team is fairly informal due to the nature of our wars. (inviting people over, etc.) The other team is even less organized, and I basically do all (at least most) of the arrangements regarding both teams. However, hopefully the other team will at least use their own guns later on, though I doubt they'd make a name.

For recruiting, it's quite simple, I start talking to someone about it. The training is currently nonexistant. If I do start training, it'd probably just be small fights within the team, but last war, it worked fairly well with no training at all.

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History:

Last summer (2006) however, it was a pretty big issue. The top guys of both teams didn't manage that well, and the other guys would do worse. One guy manages to get my 2000 when I put it down, yet he can't even use it at all. Same guy is shooting at me when out of remotely effective range, then tosses a balloon at me. I simply move my arm out of the way and it hits a pine tree. The hoseman at my base stops shooting at someone when he tries to make negotations, trades, etc. He then picks up the flag and leaves without getting shot at. Another guy completely uses up our water balloon cache (though I can't blame him since they only had squirt guns) but then uses rocks afterward. I had problems too, such as splitting the team up too much, dropping the 2000, not being aggressive enough in getting some weaponry back, not keeping the team in order, taking and leaving the base with only squirt guns and balloons (I was dual wielding a SC400 and FF), and trying to find the flag on my own.

Well, glad all the 2006 stuff is history, and while it was fun, it's safe to say I can very likely avoid those things from happening again. (which the birthday war proved) No more gun shortages either, even though we only had 6 people at that war in 2006.

The ASS was formed right at the water war. The name was decided on after the war by me and the other commander. The highlights of the birthday party war was pretty simple; disorganization. The main part of this was the stealing. One of those guys on their team would come in (often unarmed) and take a piece of cover or a blaster or whatever. Most of the war was the same. We'd go to their base and stay there until we're soaked, out of ammo, and tired, then go back and sit at our base. They would do the same thing.

So the same guy comes in again and again, taking our cover, and set up a position with it at their base, which wasn't as easy to flank as I hoped it'd be. We didn't charge into the cover they set up, as it was more of a "roadblock". Onto the other parts of the stealing, the same guy tried to get my 2700 off my shoulder several times. Struggling in a pile of 3-4 people, I'd struggle to pump and fire, but was running out of water, otherwise they would get soaked and ignore it. However, I would also manage to run off and get away with my gun intact.

With my CPS 1000 (my secondary weapon), the load got quite heavy and I didn't want to carry it anymore, so I leave it at my base, hoping for people to take it to avoid having it fall into enemy hands. Of course, that's exactly what happens, then me and a good friend go over there to get it. He's at a hose trying to shut it off while getting water bottles poured over him as well as some streams. I help him out of course, and try to fend off the attackers. Later on, he manages to get the 1000. However, sometime along, it busts part of the strap connection, so my 1000 currently remains strapless.

And of course, at the start of the war, the other team forgets to take their water balloons. It was too late, they were already at their base. My team actually used the balloons somewhat well, as I saw many throws that didn't miss. Later, we attempt to use the launcher, which we probably shouldn't have. (very sick of the lack of range and just wanted to hit them from away) The last 3 balloons are loaded, some probably pop before going in, and the rest pop either when launching, or when in the air. (we definately couldn't have hit them anyhow) We try a CTF game later, but people get sick of the game before finding any flags so we go in. The game was considered a draw, but the other team quit first, cancelled that, then when everyone really quit, it was a bit unclear who did so first or if both teams did it at the same time.

Well, that's the random war stories, probably quite unecessary.

For game modes, it doesn't look like we'll be on 1HK/S anytime too soon. My friend (one whos typically commander of the other team) seems to like the soakfest, yet has complained about it in the past. A small issue right now is getting him to fully support his own team, though any self-supporting team would be great for ASS to fight. It's a bit likely that we'll switch the name sometime. (due to the "squad" part of the current name) SWAT (Swift Water Assault Team, but then again, someone else's team name here is too similar lol), WTF (Water Team Fighters), weird stuff like that are the possiblities so far.

Tactics. We don't really think about this through very much nor well, we just do it. We just do what seems to be best in a situation, discussion ideas amongst ourselfs. No tactic lists, no strategy book, etc. It's quite simple, though it might be something I have to adjust. Our map is posted below. Currently, all houses other than the marked 2 are off limits. (though I'm thinking about changing that next war since there are some people I know)

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Yes, the base system isn't very good in the first place as being more stateless makes us harder to attack, but we do soakfests and need the hoses pretty bad, for both refilling and as a suppresion weapon.

Well, thats about it for now. Expect random updates, edits, etc. Post your thoughts, comments, ideas, etc.




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Post by forestfighter7 » Fri May 04, 2007 7:17 pm

Cool! It sounds like you have fun even if it isn't all that hard-core. Maybe I should start one of these threads... I have a lot to say about my team.
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HBWW
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Post by HBWW » Sat May 05, 2007 9:14 am

Yeah, I agree we should try to step up on the game modes sometime. We do count hits when we do nerf (even though we only use mavericks lol), so why not in water wars...

As you can see from the pics, there's not terribly much field cover, which is obviously why I had to set up our own cover. (ASS is at base 1) The large, empty area in the middle of the battlefield is actually a ditch, some sort of water detention thingy that digs down about 10-20ft deep or so, and goes around that line in the center. A bit hard to describe; maybe I can get a pic sometime.

The enemy base has lots of nice natural cover as well as a non-removeable playground. (a bit hard to see on the map) The rest are trees and shrubery. If we change our conventional methods of attacking/getting to their base, we're going to have to cross areas that are less of our limits (i.e. other people's property) Best alternative right now is taking the sidewalk, stealthy but takes longer, though if they do find out about it, at least they (so far) don't have a nozzle on their back hose.

For CTF, we typically hide our flag in the northwestern portion of the battlefield, in the trees, just a bit lower-left from the corner of that square building. So far they haven't figured that out yet, and it's perfect because they can't expect it at all and will almost endlessly search our base. At the same time, it's still within battlefield limits. (it's on city property)

Wonder how this compares to others' battles and battlefields. Any similarities? Differences? Things we should do better? (well, I do agree I should get more pics, I'll see if I can later today.)




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Post by HBWW » Mon May 21, 2007 2:34 pm

We have yet another war coming up. It will be in about a week, on memorial day (monday) at 2:00. I have a rather strange and different plan this time. The flag will stay where it is, but this time we have different rules.

It will be a CTF where if the flag carrier is hit (fist sized, at the least the user has to feel it), he has to drop the flag. Also, if anyone is being shot at, they have to mind the water and retreat/react to it, rather than just being able to charge into a stream. Unfortunately, this is the closest we can really get to 1HK/S for now, but it'll have to do. Also, there have been rules regarding blaster stealing, wrestling, etc. (since we had a lot of chaos last war with people wrestling, stealing guns, and the wrestling causing straps to break) Other rules deal with hiding the flag. About at least 70% of it must be visible without having to physically move something out of the way that obstructs the view of the flag.

I have thought of a full plan dealing with taking the flag based on these rules and on the location of our flag. Basically, we sneak around, try to take their base, look for the flag, and bring it back to ours. Our flag position and what we're trying to do is the least they're going to expect, but everything must be pulled off correctly, our cover must not be blown too earlier, and our timings got to be just right. I might have to discuss some backup ideas, as we don't want the war to go on too long, even if they can't expect our flag location.

Also, here's a vid of the WBL me and dad built a while ago. In the vid, I'm holding the camera and my dad shoots the launcher. Let me know if it works or not.

http://www.mediafire.com/?9scgdftccfc

If it's not too much trouble, could someone move this to the mysoaker forum? Just thought it would, you know, be sure any leaks at all are prevented.

Edit: Thanks lol.




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Post by forestfighter7 » Mon May 21, 2007 9:45 pm

Sounds like you'll have fun. I might have a war this weekend. Perhaps on Memorial Day.

The Vid didn't work for me. I got a vid of some random band playing. :goofy:
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Post by HBWW » Tue May 22, 2007 2:07 pm

That's weird, I just verified the download. Try the link again. It should be named something like WBL-PWN323.wmv and 4.8mb. (though I really should've resized it)

We've modified the plans a little, where a group is left at our base. The idea is for the stealthier force to move along it's route and attack the enemy base suddenly and forcefully, and requires speed, timing, and precision. (gaining control of hoses will be key here) Hopefully we can then get the rest to be sandwhiched between our offensive and defensive forces as it'll make the flag search easier. After the flag is found, our fastest guy drops any heavy weapons he's carrying and runs back and grabs our flag, giving us the victory with both flags in his hand. The rules are as said, where players have to retreat when being hit, and if they're carrying a flag, box, or other large object, they have to drop it if they're hit.

Come to think of it, I'd have to admit I'm slightly bending the rules to our favor. (But then again I'm the only one who actually makes them so whatever, and there are so far no objections to them. If there are, we can change our tactics)
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Post by HBWW » Sat May 26, 2007 8:14 pm

Well apparently, a few days ago, some friends wanted to switch to 1HK, infinite lives, no hit scores. (while still being CTF) There will be more specifications for the flag placement and it has to be close to the base. When you're hit, you have to return to a spawn point to respawn. Once you do, the spawn is instant. However, I might want to change this and require players to count aloud, and might not even have spawn points in this case. Also, we can either have them frozen at their location, or still able to move (but not shoot obviously), similar to how its done in laser tag.

Well, what is everyone's favorite way of doing 1HK? We can't do elimination as that would detract the CTF focus and would make the game boring. (disputes between hits would also be worse, as any normal dispute can be settled by making both players have to respawn/count, but elimination takes it further)

Getting kind of nervous, and haven't been exercising as I should've since I was rather busy this week. If our stealth mission fails, it's going to be quite some trouble, especially if we have to attack along the shortest, most commonly used route. Overall, it's going to be a tough war, and since I lack speed and stamina somewhat, I'll have to rely on range, stealth, and bizzare tactics to get my attack squad through their base unnoticed, then ambush them and take the flag home.

Yeah, sorry to double post, but this war's in almost 24 hours and I'm getting a bit nervous lol. Maybe it's because I strategy-planned too much and expected a lot from them, but then had to change those strategies due to the change in game mode. Also, someone on my team who's good at tactics and management might not make it, leaving things up to me, and me having to decide whom to choose as the squad leaders, etc.
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Post by Silence » Sat May 26, 2007 8:32 pm

Eh, I wouldn't worry about it too much...it's just a game, after all. The 1HK lives system sounds fairly good; you won't need a spawn time as long as you set the spawn points far enough away from both teams' flags.

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Post by HBWW » Sat May 26, 2007 9:36 pm

Lol, changed the rules again. I've started to dislike the spawn points rule, as people can just stay at their point and are virtually invincible there, making some defense messy. I've considered to do another rule. If you're hit, you're frozen for 15 seconds, and have to count out loud and in seconds. This makes things lighter on our stealth ambushing. Keeping us at their base could be a good thing... Or bad. And if someone babysits someone frozen, they can just shoot em as soon as they unfreeze, and if there are 2 people, the one frozen can use his backup. If there are 3 people babysitting, then they're wasting people... Also, each team must now make 3 flag captures to win.

My main concern earlier was with getting pushed back to the spawn point and our stealth team getting pushed out. Either way, we must be swift in executing the ambush. Part of the plan calls for turning off and disconnecting a hose, then putting on a hose clip to disable it from being hooked up again. They won't even think to use the other hose. From here, there are 2 possiblities, they could either defend the flag with their lives, or they could get pushed out. If they get pushed out, we could eventually sandwich them between the defensive and offensive. Of course, the plan also has a stealth route for bringing the flag back. Now, we just need some failsafe ideas to cushion the plan if any part of it fails...

Perhaps I'm thinking, planning and worrying too much, and that could definately cause problems in the war itself.
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Post by DX » Sat May 26, 2007 9:57 pm

If you're doing the 1HK family for the first time, I would keep it simple. I've actually never played 1HK Lives, as surprising as that might sound, but that should work well with CTF. You might to set the spawn points inside bases - it would be very obvious when someone has cleared in that way and no waiting time is needed. You also might want to require a respawning player to declare their re-entry by some kind of verbal signal, such as "clear" or "I'm back in". I personally micro-manage every player's status mentally, but I wouldn't suggest that for obvious stress reasons. :goofy:
Maybe it's because I strategy-planned too much and expected a lot from them, but then had to change those strategies due to the change in game mode. Also, someone on my team who's good at tactics and management might not make it, leaving things up to me, and me having to decide whom to choose as the squad leaders, etc.


As I usually say, the best strategies come spontaneously. I go into each war with no plan whatsoever, because I know that whatever plans I make would be ruined in the first 5 minutes.

This sounds like it would be a good time to experiment with strange tactics. Unfortunately, the most effective flag capture tactics often involve speed, such as an Instant Right/Left Oblique Rush. However, you could incorporate distractions into almost anything. Try out a Double Distraction Rush - where the enemy doesn't buy the distraction because it is slightly obvious, but doesn't realize that the guys being covered by the distraction are a distraction themselves. The real threat would be a single guy going for the flag from out of nowhere.

Another idea that might work well here is False Confusion or False Chaos worked into a Distraction Ambush or Rush. Basically, you blow your own distraction cover, usually one guy will give them away "accidentally". You yell at the guy, other teammates get involved and argue. While that is going on, someone else is making off with the enemy flag! :laugh: The only problem is getting it to sound real. Any hint of a fake and you will not keep the enemy's attention.

If the enemy tries being a turtle [sitting in their base playing all or mostly defense], then surround that base and gradually press in, wasting enemy water in the process. I call this "Approach by Dancing Lines" because when we tried to take High Point last war, we drew enemy fire and dodged as we moved in and back. Eventually, Waterbridge was nearly out of water and we were several steps closer than at the beginning. 5 steps may mean the difference between shots landing at feet and shots landing square in the chest. The enemy won't notice a step in every now and then, especially if you take a lot of steps in random directions while drawing their fire.

Be creative - if the enemy expects you to take the shortest route, take the longest one. If they suspect the longest one, take the medium one of course. :p Change up your strategy if the enemy doesn't expect a change and stick with it if the enemy does expect a change. If they don't know what you're doing, they'll react to you and you want that.

One last thing, don't be nervous, or at least don't show it - act cocky as if the enemy is not worthy. Display arrogance, but be ready for anything. That will give the enemy false confidence, as well as deny them the ability to leech off of nervousness. That is a very bad feeling to display - trust me, I'd know. I'm expected to defend our multi-year undefeated streak, sure as heck that makes me nervous as hell. If nervous, especially at the beginning of a war, you might want to make a series of attacks and retreats just to feel out the enemy and see how they react. That will help show you what options will work or fail for the real deal.

This is all general advice though - if you want a lot of more specific stuff, I am not a bad person to ask - tactical stuff is my job. :love:
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Post by cobralex297 » Mon Jun 04, 2007 11:29 am

just thought i'd say, clever on the name. wish i'd thought of it.

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Re: Aquatic aSsault Squad (ASS) water wars - updates, info, thou

Post by HBWW » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:52 pm

I hereby shamelessly necro this thread. (But hey, there's less than 1/4th of a page worth of threads on the forum holding this thread.)

Funny that most people who posted here are gone (though DX still pops in once in a while). I'm still here of course, and I'd like to update on how things have changed for ASS, HBWW, etc. in the past three years.

First, ASS and Team Ultima are uncommon monikers for us. I simply refer to our events as HBWW now especially because the way we do teams has gotten even less informal than it was before. Earlier, there was a tradition on teams being based on high school "cliques" or groups, but now it's oddly random. And as a result, I find wars to be just a hair bit easier to fight with the "easier" opponents, despite me not getting enough exercise for the past 2 years. But we take our wars as seriously as our LAN parties now, and I don't actually quite dislike it that way.

Earlier, I found myself needing better tactics and team organization. Now I find myself needing simply more wars, more fun gametypes to try out, more workouts, and still, more help in setting up wars. Packing my armory downstairs and setting up 2 hoses and the rest of the HQ base in 3 hours is strenuous, then there's water balloons to worry about. The main part of wars is that if I was faster and more skillful at reacting and dodging, all the tactics and strategy come spontaneously, just as DX mentioned in the 3-year old post above. After all, when playing FPS games, nobody plans out their moves to much degree (except for which guns/kits/loadouts to take, which is normal in every water war anyways), they just go out and play. One can only get better at tactics through experience under the specific set of circumstances they're playing on. Of course, as the movie I watched yesterday (The A-Team) pointed out, plans coming together can have huge, often hilarious or embarrassing impacts on the enemy.

Of course, I also still have a lot of water guns to repair or maintain. Some things never change, haha.
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