Your Armory

Discussions of all varieties of stock water guns and water blasters.
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atvan
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Re: Your Armory

Postby atvan » Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:11 am

Don't take this the wrong way, but is there anything truly innovative or revolutionary about your designs? Fifty feet is not even the high end of the scale for standard homemades, and the Supercannon II reached into the 80 foot range.
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Well, not that much soakage.

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spitfire
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Re: Your Armory

Postby spitfire » Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:38 pm

HEY MAN, DON'T YOU DISS MY GUN!!!!!!!!!! :goofy:
OK, seriously though. you seriously need to reinvestigate the Supercannon2. It actually has a maximum of 75ft.[big difference, right], not to mention that you have to pressurize it between shots[I know pretty much all you can know without being on the receiving end]; mine is almost nonstop firing. I'm also working on another version that shoots farther.

P.S. And yes, it is innovative and revolutionary.[one last brag, its shot has an output of over ten liters]
P.P.S. I'm going to friend you since you're so skeptical about the Ranger 20.7. Friend back please and I might send you a video of it in action.
Last edited by spitfire on Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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the oncoming storm
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Re: Your Armory

Postby the oncoming storm » Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:19 pm

From what you say it sounds like a super CAp type gun, is that Liters per second or total output from the tank.
If you ever bother reading these, I worry for your mental sanity. :oo:

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atvan
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Re: Your Armory

Postby atvan » Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:23 am

First off, as anyone who knows everything about the SCII should know, he hardly angled the gun at all for those range tests, and also did not pressurize the gun up to what the PVC is designed to take, for extra safety reasons. Pressurization between shots is true for any gun, unless we want to talk about the MOARC, which got even better range, but was obviously flawed for war usage.

10 liters is not output, that's capacity.

Also, I see no reason not to be skeptical about why such an average preforming homemade (only surpassing Ben's 2L homemade from his site) is so revolutionary and special that it should qualify for a patent. Nevertheless, I will be willing to eat my words if you prove me otherwise.
DX wrote:In the neanderthal days of K-modding, people would lop off the whole PRV

Well, not that much soakage.

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DX
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Re: Your Armory

Postby DX » Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:01 am

I know pretty much all you can know without being on the receiving end


...And yet, you don't know its range...have you ever built or shot one? 73ft of effective range and 78ft with 5% glycerin mixed in, and not at particularly high pressure. No idea where the 75ft terminal range came from. I believe that 81 ft is its terminal/max/last drop, range. BTW, max range is a deprecated stat. Effective range is the new standard, to the end of the last puddle and the furthest you can really hit someone from. Some people, like Maurader, test effective range on a human target and take the average from as many of the same model as possible. This results in a stat with high accuracy. SC II can only put out about 4 liters a second when the nozzle is on it. But, with no nozzle, that rises dramatically to 16-24 liters. So 10 really isn't anything special, and neither are big outputs. Air pressure water cannons do the same thing, and I'd be willing to bet that a 4" one would have power similar to a Super Cannon, albeit being heavier and more awkward to carry. A 3" one packs a huge punch as it is. Water cannons are really simple homemades, too. If you can build a WBL, you can build a WC - the materials required are very similar.

Everyone is skeptical because you haven't backed up your claims with anything tangible. What makes a homemade a "hit" is actually not its range or output or capacity, but its ease of construction, cost, ability to customize, and especially practicality in a war. Open plans like the standard APH, SC II, Douchenator are popular because they have all these things. The parts lists are right there and so are the instructions. This isn't really a place for closed designs and proprietary control. This is not a consumer crowd, this is DIY. Virtually everyone here has either already built homemade(s) or has the capabilities to (yes that includes you, Scott). Designs we can't see or use are of little value to us and we move on and wait until there's something to see.

So, I would at least suggest you share pictures. If it's something actually revolutionary, then we won't be able to replicate them without special tools or parts, and you have nothing to worry about. Else, it's something that can't be patented or sold because it's too simple or common. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see a new homemade that is actually practical to use. The best I have been able to achieve is practicality similar to a large CPS and with power similar to a CPS 1500 in that platform. To beat what currently exists and get someone to buy one, it needs to have greater power than that, with a trigger, a reliable trigger valve, and a version that uses an onboard reservoir and one that uses a backpack. Also has to be lighter than PVC and a nozzle selector would be a plus. Basically, it has to have qualities of a manufactured water gun - casing, compact check valves, perfect sealing pump at high pressure, etc. It has to beat the CPS 2000 in particular.
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Re: Your Armory

Postby spitfire » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:05 pm

In repsonse to duxburian's post, all I know is what he posted on the site. Not to mention that my gun DOESN'T need pressurization between shots. And, with a speed burst of 26mph that I can maintain for twenty-two seconds, the sc2's user wouldn't last more than thirteen seconds.
I WANT people to be skeptical. i honestly don't want someone to use[or patent/steal] my design; my dad, who works on the psych ward, says I have acute paranoia. :oo: And in my experience, it doesn't matter how powerful the blast is, the gun that shoots farther and faster will win[not to mention that I'm more likely to dodge a large blast]. My first version cost only about 20-30 dollars to build and was extremely simple to assemble. And, to be perfectly honest, I just got bored with your post so I'm going to move on to the next Thomas.

To Atvan, who decided to be slightly more courteous than most people in his pm, ten liters is the actual output per shot- The capacity was actually 236 L
As I said before, I liked your pm, so I wil do my best to send you the video if you keep it under your hat till I can patent it.
Oncoming storm: that is actual output per shot.
Duxburian, please don't waste my time with remarks that glorify slow behemoths. thanks.

================================================================================
Edit - Please don't try my patience or you'll end up banned. Especially if I get "bored" of your posts...

75 is not what he posted on the site. What I posted is what's in the article. If you can't take a bit of skeptical criticism or even a little bit of factual correction, without lashing out, then don't post. You've shown us nothing to believe that your models will be battle practical. Something that holds 236 liters of water and shoots for 22 seconds does not sound like something you can run around with in a typical 20 minute OHS round and the such.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Hey genius, I'm not lashing out. I'm totally used to people like you. And the 26mph 22second speed burst was my sprint. The gun's shot lasts about ten seconds. And It has a tank that I strap to my back, so i honestly don't notice a difference between my gun and a squirt gun.
And as I already said, because Atvan and marauder had better manners than you, I have decided to send them actual evidence.

And to everyone else, sorry about my posts. Using [stupid, idiot, etc.]is part of every day life at my house.
Example:"Hey kid, you forgot your jacket." "shut up blockhead!"[the last piece of dialogue being my brother]
I am totally serious.[And to duxburian, you didn't irritate me, I'm used to it by now. I just get bored countering a post that long]
Last edited by spitfire on Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:14 am, edited 3 times in total.
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The Blue Avenger
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Re: Your Armory

Postby The Blue Avenger » Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:47 pm

Hey , Dude , I've actually seen the ranger 20.7. No matter what you say, it's just as good as spitfire said. :soaked:
Prepare to get soaked!!!

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SEAL
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Re: Your Armory

Postby SEAL » Sun Aug 26, 2012 6:51 pm

Dude, an important rule you should remember is to argue with the post, not the poster. Furthermore, I do not see anything truly offensive or insulting in Duxburian's post, so I don't know where you're coming from when you say "stupid remarks".

When it comes to homemades, you want a balance of power and practicality. I built an air pressure homemade that can shoot 50 feet no problem, but it also weighs like 50 pounds, is about 3 feet long, and doesn't have a proper trigger system. I would take a CPS 2700 over that thing any day of the week; even though it shoots 7 feet less and puts out like a quarter of the water (rough estimation.), I would be a far greater threat on the battlefield, because I can move fast and take tap-shots. If your homemade shoots 50 feet, that's good, but in order for it to be truly great, it has to be practical in combat as well. A good example of a practical homemade is JLspacemarine's CPS Custom Assault Rifle.

As for pursuing a patent, unless you're using a new technology that hasn't been implemented in a stock water gun before, you won't be able to get it. Keep in mind that I've never had anything patented before, so my knowlege on how that works is limited, but I know that you can't patent the same thing that someone else has, unless you can somehow find a loophole or something. Also, there isn't much demand for water guns at the moment, so if you're thinking about puttting your designs into production, you may be in for a disappointment. As far as posting pictures goes, I see no reason why that would jeopardize your chances of getting a patent (hardly anyone vists this website.), but once again, I don't know a whole lot about that subject.
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Poseidon2000
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Re: Your Armory

Postby Poseidon2000 » Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:15 am

For the sake of any more arguement, i'll list my armory/armoury. :goofy:
CPS 2500
CPS1000
Ultimate Vanquisher(ye old screaming one)
Iron Man(Arctic Blast)
lightninstorm and tornado strike :oo:
2 Knockoff cps looking guns that are better than those nerf thingys... :(
That's all for now, but i have well over 1 dollar to spare to extend my inventory.



:P :cps1500: :soaked:
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spitfire
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Re: Your Armory

Postby spitfire » Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:19 am

Oops. :oo: I accidentally listed the tank as holding 236 L; It actually holds 236 fluid ounces. Does that make a little more sense?
Same thing happened with the output: It's actually 10.5 fluid ounces.

Duxburian, were you a member on SSC, and if so, what was your username?

p.s.Remember when i asked for commonly used abbreviations? I still want them! :)
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Fishfan
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Re: Your Armory

Postby Fishfan » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:38 am

Okay, I was about to say you can't carry around 504 pounds and still run with it. Olympic weightlifters have trouble with that amount to lift. I will tell you a few abbreviations. CPS stands for constant pressure system. CPH stands for Constant pressure homemade. XP stand for Extra power, and SS stand for super soaker.
10.5 fluid ounces isn't amazing for a homemade. The CPS 2000 has I believe 30 ounces output, or what we call, 30x output. 10 ounces is 10x, and so on. Ben's CPH got 60 feet, and 40x. And unless you use a different system than AP(air pressure) or CPS, you won't get it patented. It already is patented.
My armory is:

1x Scatter blast
1x Hydro Cannon
1x Tornado strike + 4x water clips
2x Thunderstorms + 2x water clips for each
1x Vaporizer
+ 1 CPH on the way. I hope to improve this armory very soon with CPS and XP and SC (Super Charger) and WW (water warriors)
Last edited by Fishfan on Wed Dec 12, 2012 12:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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DX
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Re: Your Armory

Postby DX » Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:41 am

OOOOOH! Those are much more understandable numbers. I was like 236 liter reservoir? I don't know anyone who can even lift that much water, it's like 472 lbs of dead weight. That's why I was seriously doubting these homemades, the weight and size would have been incredible. With the corrected units, I can now see how these could be practical.

I joined SSC as Duxburian in February 2004. My username there was changed to DX and is still that way.
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isoaker
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Re: Your Armory

Postby isoaker » Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:17 pm

spitfire wrote:And as I already said, because Atvan and marauder had better manners than you, I have decided to send them actual evidence.

As far as I'm concerned, if you are truly intent on attempting to patent them, unless you get a signed non-disclosure agreement from anyone else, it would be ill-advised to share anything from video to pictures, etc. to anyone here. Doing so could count as a public disclusure and ruin your chance of getting whatever you have in mind patented.

That said, there is no surprise that other members here would be skeptical of such a revolutionary homemade device without seeing proof of it functioning. If you go on the board bragging your homemade can do "X", it becomes a matter of needing to prove it or forget about others believing you. There are many experienced builders on here who have found a number of physical limits in what they can build. This is not to say that your blaster doesn't perform as you say it does, but for it to do so, it must be designed in some way that others here have not done before. If you design, though, is just a refinement or better built design of an existing design, its likelihood of getting patented is very low.

All that said, if you are serious about trying to get a patent, go for it, but don't expect the membership here to be truly convinced until they can see more evidence of it working as you say it does.

Back to topic: as noted in the other thread, recently got a Super Soaker Racer. That puts me at nearly the 500 item mark. :goofy: I need more storage space...

:cool:
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Re: Your Armory

Postby Fishfan » Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:46 pm

isoaker wrote:Back to topic: as noted in the other thread, recently got a Super Soaker Racer. That puts me at nearly the 500 item mark. :goofy: I need more storage space...

:cool:


500? WTF!! I had no idea you had that many! I knew you had a lot, but not that many! dang.
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marauder
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Re: Your Armory

Postby marauder » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:15 am

Fishfan wrote:The CPS 2000 has I believe 30 ounces output, or what we call, 30x output. 10 ounces is 10x, and so on. Ben's CPH got 60 feet, and 40x. And unless you use a different system than AP(air pressure) or CPS, you won't get it patented. It already is patented.


Technically x is compared to the output of the XP 70. This began with the legendary '98s and then in 2000 and onward SuperSoaker would describe a gun "with 5x the output of the XP 70," or alternately, "with 5x the output of the standard super soaker."

If you want to get technical, iSoaker lists the XP 70's output at 0.9 oz, I measured 1.2 oz, and Aquanexus lists 1.7 oz/sec. But for sake of simplicity and time there's nothing wrong with using 1x = 1 oz for casual discussion.
:cool:

isoaker wrote:That puts me at nearly the 500 item mark. :goofy: I need more storage space...

WOW. I have 47 and I thought that was a lot.
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isoaker
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Re: Your Armory

Postby isoaker » Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:01 am

marauder wrote:
Fishfan wrote:The CPS 2000 has I believe 30 ounces output, or what we call, 30x output. 10 ounces is 10x, and so on. Ben's CPH got 60 feet, and 40x. And unless you use a different system than AP(air pressure) or CPS, you won't get it patented. It already is patented.


Technically x is compared to the output of the XP 70. This began with the legendary '98s and then in 2000 and onward SuperSoaker would describe a gun "with 5x the output of the XP 70," or alternately, "with 5x the output of the standard super soaker."

If you want to get technical, iSoaker lists the XP 70's output at 0.9 oz, I measured 1.2 oz, and Aquanexus lists 1.7 oz/sec. But for sake of simplicity and time there's nothing wrong with using 1x = 1 oz for casual discussion.

Technically, the use of the XP 70 as being 1x is more historical than technical. :goofy: For iSoaker.com, all references to "#x" refers to using "#x" as a multiple of 1oz./sec for output. I should also note that having discussed the whole "x" nozzle rating with those who made them in the first place, they actually didn't do any major measuring or calculations and were roughly ballparking the whole "#x" rating in the first place. "Well, this nozzle looks like its pushing out about 10 times as much as that one.. let's call it 10x!" Interestingly, it did, indeed, end up being fairly close to what is measured for a number of nozzles, but as is also found, actual output from a "#x" nozzle does vary quite a bit between models and even sub-types of specific models.

:cool:
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marauder
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Re: Your Armory

Postby marauder » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:14 pm

Very interesting. Maybe I should go back and change all the ratings on my site... this could take some time lol especially since I don't have a laptop anymore. Ugh 2 months!
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spitfire
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Re: Your Armory

Postby spitfire » Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:18 pm

In regards to isoaker's post, I'm pretty sure that as long as I only show pictures of the impact area (thereby verifying the range) and don't show any close up pics or give any explanation as to how it works, I am under the impression that reproduction would be rather difficult(though not impossible).And note, this whole patenting thing wasn't my idea, it was my uncle's, dad's, Fair judge's, and some other dude that I've never seen before in my life's idea.(I'm fifteen, filing a patent costs $90, and I'm a bit stingy)But, from the research I've done, no one else has duplicated it. And thanks to everyone for the abbreviations. CPH and CPS had me slightly confused. I'm not sure, but I believe my homemades would be considered a CPH.

q: Has anyone ever managed to build a real sub-automatic wbl? I have a design I think would work, but it would be so large anyone using it would need several escorts.
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Re: Your Armory

Postby Fishfan » Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:52 pm

A CPH is a homemade that uses a rubber bladder to achieve constant pressure, instead of air pressure, which has range drop-off later on in the shot. And example of this would be this:
http://www.sscentral.org/homemade/supercps.html
I have built one of these, and I'm sure several others here have also.
I believe there was an attempt to make a semi-automatic WBL, but I'm not 100% sure.
Edit_ If you do get it patented, could you show it to us? (how it works, etc.) If you don't get it patented, well, you could still show it to us.
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Re: Your Armory

Postby spitfire » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:30 am

if that's a cph, then no, that's not my gun. And I am currently having trouble posting the pic to anything, much less a thread.
And by sub-auto I mean cock it and it's automatically reloaded[my idea uses a clip :| ]
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