Duelfest: Light Primaries at Legend Park

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marauder
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Duelfest: Light Primaries at Legend Park

Postby marauder » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:45 pm

Just had an epic afternoon of battling at Legend Park. Here are the weapons we used:

Water Warriors Blazer
Super Soaker Iron Man 2 (CPS)
Super Soaker XP 310

Which was the top soaker when it was all said and done?

Let's get some bets going on which gun wins in each matchup and by how much.

Blazer vs Iron Man 2
Blazer vs XP 310
Iron Man 2 vs XP 310
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Re: Duelfest: Light Primaries at Legend Park

Postby HBWW » Sun Jun 07, 2015 10:56 pm

1. Blazer (IM2 if it was soakfest. xD)
2. Blazer, but XP 310 should have a slight mobility advantage. (And perhaps stream velocity, but that's only a guess.)
3. XP 310 (IM2 for soakfest lol.)

If the IM2 nozzle is drilled properly, that'll throw off these guesses a bit.

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Re: Duelfest: Light Primaries at Legend Park

Postby DX » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:33 pm

Blazer vs Iron Man 2
70% - 30%

Blazer vs XP 310
65% - 35%

Iron Man 2 vs XP 310
40% - 60%

I also bet that one of these matchups had over 50 hits in it.
#ShamlessInsiderTrading
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Re: Duelfest: Light Primaries at Legend Park

Postby Cochise » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:58 pm

Blazer vs Iron Man 2
66% - 34%
The Blazer is a beast, but it is also a little front heavy which makes it difficult to aim if you're not used to it. While I haven't used the Iron Man 2, the flood nozzle intrigues me and I think it'd be impossible to dodge at close range. Just thinking about how effective the XXP 275 is reputed to be against more powerful blasters I think the IM2 could get a few upset kills on surprise ambush shots. Ultimately the Blazer is just too powerful.

Blazer vs XP 310
60% - 40%
This one is a matchup I'm familiar with. I've noticed the 310 doesn't get much love on this forum. We always hear about the XP 150 and the Gorgon as being top non CPS models, with an occasional nod to SEAL's MD 6000 or the Python 2 (even though it seems to get slaughtered in community wars), but the 310 is under rated. It's much lighter than the Blazer despite being almost the same size, and it pressurizes very quickly. The Blazer should prevail in a close fought matchup with its superior range and output providing the 2 or 3 long distance hits that put it over the edge.

Iron Man 2 vs XP 310
55% - 45%
Transitive comparisons be damned. I think the 310 plays the Blazer closer because its strength (mobility) is the Blazer's weakness, and other than the flood nozzle, the IM2 basically just does what the Blazer does, except not as well. With that being said, head to head the IM2 is still CPS, and I think that the constant pressure will catch the 310 user off guard and score an extra hit or two while the 310 user is pumping. IM2 by a thread.

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Re: Duelfest: Light Primaries at Legend Park

Postby the oncoming storm » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:58 am

I'm not going to try and outguess Mr insider trading because they sound very realistic.

I would guess that the Iron Man 2 was killed because it was a crummy movie :goofy: . ER Its low pump volume and sustainable output compared to the XP 310.
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Re: Duelfest: Light Primaries at Legend Park

Postby DX » Mon Jun 08, 2015 11:00 am

The main problem with the IM2 is that its flood nozzle doesn't go anywhere in the range department, and blows all your pressure. All the output in the world doesn't amount to anything if it can't be delivered on target. The IM2 can only really skirmish on the small nozzle, which is next to useless. Despite being CPS, I'd rate a lot of AP guns and even PR guns above it.

I had the chance to go 310 vs Blazer in the Chaos round of Moab, this involved trying to turn and fight during a run for my life. The fight didn't last long. The range and output of the Blazer just rained down and the 310 couldn't compete, forcing me to continue running. The 310 can be pressurized faster than it depressurizes, but not on the larger nozzles, which are the most practical to actually use. Shot time is not a weakness of the Blazer, so it can pound away and the 310 user gets forced back.

The 150 has several unique attributes that make it unusually good, even in 2015. No water gun out of the 350+ major models that exist other than the XP 75 can match its extreme trigger repetition rate. Coupled with the huge pump, compact body, lightness, and good capacity, it is able to deliver stunning firepower superiority. You can take 10 tap shots and only need to pump once to get back to full pressure. You can hold down the trigger and let 'er rip, pumping only every now and then. The 150 also has good range for its size, outshooting quite a few larger guns. There is nothing else like this in the game!

With 310 vs IM2, it should be the other way around, the 310 catches the IM2 pumping. The 310 has very long shot time, it's never low on pressure, and if you use the smaller nozzles, it can shoot indefinitely. The IM2's small nozzle has good, but not great, shot time and the flood uses its pressure rapidly. It's a closer battle, IMO, simply because neither can get a significant advantage on the other while skirmishing.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Re: Duelfest: Light Primaries at Legend Park

Postby Cochise » Mon Jun 08, 2015 5:28 pm

Hmmm. Now that you mention it, I see that the IM2 does have a lower pump volume, but it's about equal with my Colossus 2, which I seem to do quite well with. How can the range be only 35 ft? Its freakin CPS. My colossus can hit someone at 40 ft away... well.. if they stand perfectly still and there's no wind... but hey! 5 ft is still a huge difference in water wars. I just am very confused at how it has such a low range.

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Re: Duelfest: Light Primaries at Legend Park

Postby SEAL » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:24 pm

Who did you fight with? I agree with HBWW and DX.

I got a 310 in the mail years ago when I bought like 10 blasters at once off Ebay (my 2700 and 270 were part of it), but when we opened the package, we found that the reservoir had cracked off. It got thrown out because we didn't really know that soakers could actually be fixed back then. Otherwise, I've never touched one. The only time I faced one was in the MOAB round DX mentioned, and I just remember it being like a 270.

The fact that the IM2 is so weak is one of the reasons that it was a good move to change from AP-only rounds to light-primary rounds. Allowing an SS 300 but banning an IM2 is pretty silly. Just because something is CPS doesn't mean it's powerful; just means no dropoff. Air pressure can easily be just as powerful as CPS, as the APH shows. The IM2 is weak because like, the main nozzle is tiny. However you can mod the riot blast into a stream and get pretty good range, which I think is pretty close to other small CPS. I was thinking of doing that to my AB someday, and switching things around so that the main trigger activates the big valve.
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Re: Duelfest: Light Primaries at Legend Park

Postby marauder » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:42 pm

The Arctic Blast can easily support larger nozzles. You don't have to make the flood nozzle smaller, I would actually recommend making the stream setting bigger. Also, nozzle drilling is outdated and produces poor lamination for anything 2x or larger. I'd open her up, saw off the stream setting about midway and then epoxy a nylon laminator on top of it that supports a 4x nozzle. Super easy. My AB got 42 ft when I put a brass nozzle on the flood setting. I still think that flood nozzle is best left as is for awesome surprise attacks and hit and runs.

I'll post the results when Tiffany returns. They are written on a paper in the car.
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Re: Duelfest: Light Primaries at Legend Park

Postby the oncoming storm » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:31 pm

I agree with DX on the 150's massive superiority over all guns even the 310, at one time I owned an XP 70 and although the pump volume was equivalent to a 4 to 1 ratio of quarter second taps shots. However I couldn't for the life of me get that 4 to 1 ratio out of it with a pull valve equivalent to the one in the 310. Meanwhile the 150 has a 2.5 to 1 ratio but with that pull valve can still get a 10 to 1 ratio.
(I pulled out mine and confirmed DX's ratio claim)

Also because it dispenses a mere 0.28oz per tap shot it can get 267 taps shot before running empty, equivalent to a 310 on it's smallest setting in real life.
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Re: Duelfest: Light Primaries at Legend Park

Postby marauder » Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:24 pm

Blazer: 13 (68%) Iron Man 2: 6 (32%)
This consisted of major stalking back and forth around buildings with the Iron Man 2 trying to score close range surprise attack hits. The IM2 was having extreme difficulty pumping. My opponent couldn't figure it out and was pumping the entire time. When we switched blasters I figured that you had to pull the pump out extremely slowly before pushing it back in at regular speed. Even then it struggled to keep up. The Blazer was just way too good, and the score would have been much more lopsided if my opponent hadn't called for a switch so early. I opened the IM2 up and found that the plastic filter on the reservoir intake had very tiny holes, so tiny that it was impossible for much water to get through. The Arctic Blast already came with a small pump, and while I can't say whether or not all IM2s have this issue, this one was an example of shoddy quality control. On the flip side, I like the mesh on the flood nozzle better than that of the AB, and the Max D system seems even more sturdy than on the AB which was already much improved over the initial Max D series. I fixed the reservoir intake because I'm trading the IM2 and it's much better now.

XP 310: 18 (72%) Iron Man 2: 7 (28%)
The IM2 made more hits once we figured out how to pump it. Even so, the 310 tore it apart, even more so than the Blazer. The 310 had the best balance of any gun we tested and was easy to keep at 100% pressure even when unleashing a torrent of tap shots. My opponent liked to use full second long streams against me and actually had no issue with losing range while utilizing this method. The 310 is quick.

Blazer: 31 (53%) XP 310: 27 (47%)
This matchup featured an insane amount of shots as both weapons have a high rate of fire and high field life. The Blazer held the edge with range and output but not by much. The 310 proved more maneuverable. While the Blazer compares highly favorably to a Gorgon it was still oddly front heavy, making it more difficult to aim the further you have to move the blaster away from your body as the further you hold it out the more the front end of the blaster wants to swing one direction or another. Meanwhile, the hydropower proved to be an advantage even though the 310 could keep pressure by pumping frequently. The Blazer could fire longer shots while aggressively moving forward and still stay at 100% pressure. There was no way the 310 could hit the Blazer when this method was employed as the 310 was out of range by a foot or 2 and the Blazer's hp streams swept back and forth to create practically a fence of water. The 310 had to use maneuver warfare and mobility. The more the Blazer had to run the less accurate it was. Ultimately, power won out at the end of the day.

Also, I have found that the 310 can push out top ranges with its largest nozzle if you pre-pressurize it double what you usually do. This doesn't do anything for the other 3 nozzles except give them less shot time. The largest nozzle was employed using the 310 and the double pre-pressurize method, which probably explains why it performed better than in MOAB. I think that this battle also showed the importance of and limits of mobility. Perhaps we should test the Gorgon against my PPB, which has 3.5% less range and 15% less output but double the pump volume and is much much lighter. Something to think about.
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