2006 soakers

Discussions of all varieties of stock water guns and water blasters.
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LIGHT ANNIHILATOR
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Postby LIGHT ANNIHILATOR » Fri Sep 16, 2005 3:59 pm

Well it's that time of year again. Soaker season is ending, the weather is starting to get cold, and most of us are back in school so it's time to start thinking about this. What do you think hasbro and buzz bee toys will release next year. Before i thought they would rerelease old cps guns. But know that seems less and less likley so they probably wont do it. What do you guys think they will release next year ?
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Postby marauder » Sat Sep 17, 2005 2:07 pm

Actually it's pretty warm here. But I'm in the South. I do think that 2005's soakers are a step in the right direction though! Now if only they'd get rid of that horrible Max D system. It gives blasters good range, but if you really have lots of watergun fights they will break before your summer is over. I don't care too much about Buzz Bee Toys guns, they are all the same to me, just different sizes. I bet there will be a lot of rereleases, since they've been donig that recently. Probably a few guns from the past few years, and probably another over under gun like the Tripple Play or Secret Strike (they make a gun like that every year now). I bet they'll have a big gun, but just not the kind of big gun we're looking for. I predict a mediocre year. Something good enough to keep us satisfied, but nothing good enough to floor us.
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Postby CPS » Sat Sep 17, 2005 6:25 pm

About 3 more cps blasters, 2 more air pressure blasters, about 1 more piston blaster, a novelty blaster and a range of kids ones is my prediction or round abouts there. If they rerelease blasters I think that they will rerelease the: monster x, and the cps 1700 with a different name.
it feels like that kind of year :D
flash flood was a trial of the CPS system, after its popularity, i think they might bring back the CPS system ??? , also they have been selling succesful novelty blasters for the last couple of years (secret strike, flash flood, arctic shock, practically all of the soaker tag line,although not succsessful) I'm positive that they will release another one next year and perhaps a more refined version of soaker tag?
as for buzzbee, they should be moving in the direction of more CPS's as well...I mean hydro power..yeah, they feel like an akward company, maybe a WBL?
5 months shall reveal the truth....
should we also be looking at the possiblity of another water gun brand in the future? sense a revolution i do young jedi :D No matter what happens we will still :soakon2: then :bm1000:
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Postby DX » Sat Sep 17, 2005 9:25 pm

Maurader summarized my own views nicely. Ditch this low-quality trigger system, release some guns, give us something big, but no trump. Hasbro does not care about us who want more powerful soakers. They have never answered any of my emails either, so I don't even bother trying to contact them about anything anymore. BBT is different, they care, and so they continue to rise. Hasbro has developed the typical hubris that power brings a large organization, company, nation, whatever. They assume that people will continue to accept lower quality so they will make more in profits. Good business plan, but bad for public relations. Or at least for those who care about being cheated. I don't trust companies, I don't like big business, never have and probably never will.

If I ran a business, I would aim to barely make a profit or brake even. Honestly. A terrible business plan, but I am one of those increasingly rare people who care about much more than money. I would sincerely care about my customers. I would add as much quality in my products as possible. There was once a time when this was widspread. People from all over the world once marveled at the quality in even the simplest American products.

Anyway, I've been thinking that most people in the community idolize stock guns way too much. You take what they give you, you complain when the quality is lacking, but what do you do about it? Pray for something better next year? And the next? And the next? Why be enslaved like this? This is a huge reason people turn to tech. It's not all about greed for more power, to outdo everybody. It's a response to executives whom think they can exercise absolute control over us. At least for me. A direct shot to those who have gone mad in the quest for more money and trim down everything. Of course, safety concerns come into play here too, but...a bursting trigger valve does not actually cause physical harm. A homemade riot blast does not actually cause physical harm. A 20x nozzle does not actually cause physical harm. There are idiots out there who do manage to injure themselves with water guns, but that should be their liability only, but that's a seperate rant...

The real point behind this is that I don't really care if the 2006 lines are bad. I have complete independence from the companies. I still buy old CPS guns, but other than that have not deemed any new guns [2003 and newer] worthy of purchase. My recent soaker purchases have been made at Home Depot, Lowes, and Sears, not Target or Toys-R-Us. I'm not trying to get any of you to convert to tech [although building homemades can actually be cheaper than buying new guns!], but I am highlighting that there are other options than praying for better guns from companies that care about profits, not you.

I would start a water gun company if I had the know-how, funding, etc. But since money rules the globe, the chances of getting a company soley devoted to Soakerdom is 0 for the moment.
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Postby CPS » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:11 pm

if i had $1 for every rant that has been said on these forums, id have enough for a cps 2000 :D
There are idiots out there who do manage to injure themselves with water guns

Like many of us have said, its the parents. They gave there three year old a cps 2000, left them alone in the yard, next thing you know, BLAM kids lying on the ground with his eyball 5 metres away from him, parent compains, evident downfall of good soakers. if you give a 3 year old a slege hammer, of course he's going to break his legs! but you don't see the sledge hammer comanies going and making them out of pillows, do you? gimme a dollar :goofy:




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Postby marauder » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:14 pm

Duxburian wrote:Anyway, I've been thinking that most people in the community idolize stock guns way too much. You take what they give you, you complain when the quality is lacking, but what do you do about it? Pray for something better next year? And the next? And the next? Why be enslaved like this? This is a huge reason people turn to tech. It's not all about greed for more power, to outdo everybody. It's a response to executives whom think they can exercise absolute control over us. At least for me. A direct shot to those who have gone mad in the quest for more money and trim down everything. Of course, safety concerns come into play here too, but...a bursting trigger valve does not actually cause physical harm. A homemade riot blast does not actually cause physical harm. A 20x nozzle does not actually cause physical harm. There are idiots out there who do manage to injure themselves with water guns, but that should be their liability only, but that's a seperate rant...

Not everyone plays the same way. Some people have just as much fun running around the yard shooting eachother as we do with our wars. With that in mind their faith in stock guns is justified. As for the people who whine and complain about a lack of power and range on recent guns and yet do nothing about it... what you say is completely true. Modifying solves everything.
I don't know if I totally agree with you on whether or not this years guns were complete crap. If the Flash Flood and Aquapack Devastator didn't have their Max D nozzles they would have been two of the best soakers ever. If you remove the wire mesh on the Flash Flood it shoots an extra ten feet without internal modding! The Liquidator has also become a favourite of mine lately. At the same time, the Max D System is a huge drawback. Both my Devastator and Flash Flood broke this summer, after just a few months of owning them. The trigger system is ridiculous and I'm pretty fed up about it. I've had my old school SS 40 for well over five years, and It's been in many a battle (from V3 onward). It hasn't broke yet. I know that the newer guns are far more durable on the outside than my 40, but if the triggers and nozzles break then you can't use them anyway! It's better for your handle to crack than for your nozzle to break. I've owned 2 Max D 5000s, and 2 Max D 6000s, both broke within a summer or two. I have a hard time reviewing Max Ds on Hydrowar because of this. The guns performance may be top par, or at least mediocre, but if it breaks it won't do you any good.
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Postby marauder » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:20 pm

Duxburian wrote:BBT is different, they care, and so they continue to rise. Hasbro has developed the typical hubris that power brings a large organization, company, nation, whatever. They assume that people will continue to accept lower quality so they will make more in profits. Good business plan, but bad for public relations. Or at least for those who care about being cheated. I don't trust companies, I don't like big business, never have and probably never will.

I don't really see why everyone cares so much about Buzz Bee Toys' guns. Am I the only one who is unimpressed with their performances? They have the same range as Storm guns, except they take twice as much pumping and have the CPS system so their streams have more soakage and don't trail off. My Liquidator shoots the same distance as my Lightning.
If there's anything to praise BBT for of late it's making guns whose trigger/nozzle systems don't break!
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Postby CPS » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:27 pm

I don't really see why everyone cares so much about Buzz Bee Toys' guns. Am I the only one who is unimpressed with their performances?

No, i also don't like buzzbee very much either,( *off topic*also my krypton is very bad in my opinion, why does everybody say there so good anyway?)
Anyway it dosen't matter how bad the soaker, also as long as the other team has the same sort of soakers as you it will be fun!
ps: don't double post




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Postby LIGHT ANNIHILATOR » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:29 pm

Duxburian wrote: BBT is different, they care, and so they continue to rise.

If they cared so much how come they did not release a gun that was as powerful as a cps 2000. And also if they wanted money so bad how come Larami botherd to make good cps guns like the 1500 and 2500 rather than release ees style crap right from the beggining. :angry:

Edit: To be honest all bbt guns are complete crap :angry:




Edited By LIGHT ANNIHILATOR on 1127014352
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Postby CPS » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:49 pm

If they cared so much how come they did not release a gun that was as powerful as a cps 2000. And also if they wanted money so bad how come Larami botherd to make good cps guns like the 1500 and 2500 rather than release ees style crap right from the beggining.

1)A soaker as powerful as the cps 2000 would be off the market before you can say "parentswholettherechildrenplaywithacps2000arestupid" and the hydro power patent doesn't cover cylindrical cps chambers so they would get sued, *i think* and making a soaker as powerful as a cps 2000 with a spherical pc would be very large.
2) To my knowledge the cps 1500/1700 had razor thin profit margins, if they didn't they would cost heaps, thats why they brought them of the market *i also think*




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Postby Adrian » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:51 pm

I predict, um, things will stay relatively the same. Hasbro will continue to disappoint us. BBT will continue to edge slightly ahead in creativity and quality.

To go a little deeper, we'll see two or three CPSs, but the main focus will be on airpressure and/or piston guns. Hasbro knows their main audience buys airpressure pistols, that's going to be the slice of the market they focus on. I'd imagine we'll see "improved" versions of this year's products, some kind of FF clone with an extra feature or something like that.

BBT will improve their PreCharge line. Pirahnas and Blazers with bigger nozzles. Maybe one or two new Diaphragm-Tech guns. I'd look for them to continue their main line as well.

Storm will be back. The Storm 500 (really 550s) pistols sold well, so at the very least those will be returning. I'm also expecting them to start rerunning some of their older pistols/midsized guns.

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Postby isoaker » Sun Sep 18, 2005 9:06 am

Lots of good thoughts and likely scenarios posted above. While to many, the 2005 soaker crop still felt disappointing, compared to the previous 2 years, it's been a definitely attempt at returning to better stock soakers. For stock blasters, I hope to see perhaps some more useful, but perhaps slightly more specialized soakers. As mentioned above, I hope Hasbro does something to fix the Max-D trigger system or just go back to the older-style, but much more durable trigger system. As for Buzz Bee Toys, I hope they can improve upon the Aqua-Master system (who praised the Krypton? that thing's pump is rock-hard to push when pre-charged). The concept of the Pre-Charge system is nice, but chamber volumn and stiffness of pump issues are a major fault.

As always, will try to post new info as it becomes available.

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Postby DX » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:28 am

Anyway it dosen't matter how bad the soaker, also as long as the other team has the same sort of soakers as you it will be fun!


Your tactics can only be as good as your gun. Everyone I play with is 16-17. We don't run around with Liquidators soaking each other from 5 ft away on the front lawn. We play 1HK in large parks and are 2 hardcore teams who make frequent use of tactics. All of my guns [except the homemades] are painted, only half are modded, the rest are homemade. The caliber of the guns matter a lot.

If the 2006 guns are good enough, I would buy them, but I highly doubt that will be the case. A problem with BBT guns is that there aren't many mods you can do to them, and the newer Super Soakers break way too easily. I'm sick of doing trigger-related repairs.
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Postby LIGHT ANNIHILATOR » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:32 am

Adrian wrote:Storm will be back. The Storm 500 (really 550s) pistols sold well, so at the very least those will be returning. I'm also expecting them to start rerunning some of their older pistols/midsized guns.

I would love for them to do that. I really like my storm 800 and my friends 750 i would also like to buy some of their larger cannons as well. Another good thing about storm guns they have a really strong trigger that never breaks unlike the stupid max-d system. And cps it was the stupid paranoid parents that got the cps 2000 taken away. But they did not get rid of the good guns like the cps 3200. Hasbro did that.
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Postby LIGHT ANNIHILATOR » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:40 am

Duxburian wrote:Your tactics can only be as good as your gun.

Sorry about the double post but if that were true the person with the bigger gun and better gun would win all the time. (thus creating the bigger is better media steriotype) Witch is why everyone thinks the monster XL is the best gun ever, my friend even thought that untill i told him about the cps 2000.




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Postby DX » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:44 am

Not really. You can have top notch tactics, but if you've got a bad gun, your execution of such tactics will be poor.
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Postby marauder » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:49 am

Duxburian wrote:Your tactics can only be as good as your gun. Everyone I play with is 16-17. We don't run around with Liquidators soaking each other from 5 ft away on the front lawn. We play 1HK in large parks and are 2 hardcore teams who make frequent use of tactics. All of my guns [except the homemades] are painted, only half are modded, the rest are homemade. The caliber of the guns matter a lot.

Liquidators actually have pretty good range... have you ever used one?
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Postby marauder » Sun Sep 18, 2005 11:52 am

Duxburian wrote:Not really. You can have top notch tactics, but if you've got a bad gun, your execution of such tactics will be poor.

^very true. You can beat someone with a better gun if your tactics are better.




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Postby DX » Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:02 pm

Liquidators actually have pretty good range... have you ever used one?


My weakest gun is a CPS 3200 with leakage problems. I haven't used a Liquidator, and wouldn't unless it was a last, last resort with no other options available. The average range of the guns in my arsenal is ~52ft. That average will be rising as I start some more integration mods and CPHs.

Back to the original topic, I've been terribly disappointed with stock ranges. A *few* more ft. of range would help a lot.
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Postby Doom » Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:34 pm

LIGHT ANNIHILATOR wrote:Sorry about the double post but if that were true the person with the bigger gun and better gun would win all the time. (thus creating the bigger is better media steriotype) Witch is why everyone thinks the monster XL is the best gun ever, my friend even thought that untill i told him about the cps 2000.

Super Soaker CPS 2000 is the best water gun? It's got good power and range... not much else though. The poorly executed features include the single nozzle, the reservoir that is not big enough for many shots, etc. I think you're taking the common "power is all that matters" stereotype and adding poor spelling on top of it. Balanced weaponry is what wins.


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