Buzz Bee Toys/Water Warriors - News, Suggestions and Other Info

Discussions of all varieties of stock water guns and water blasters.
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cooldood31
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Post by cooldood31 » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:58 pm

I don't think a single gun could work as a siege cannon and a scout pistol. Just my opinion.

Stocks would be nice to see on soakers, and different sized attachable backpacks.

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Post by RAK » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:05 pm

well of course not. as such, apples cant be oranges. but a schitzo soaker with "multiple-personalities" and multiple features could cover a general field of soaker types. i also dont think a WBL and a side-arm would make a good combo. but if you make a rational in-between of the two, the result would be an interesting multi-purpose soaker. use your imagination and the designs are endless.

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Post by cooldood31 » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:49 pm

That gives me an idea: "All purpose" soakers. A md6k/cps1k sized gun with a built in water balloon launcher would be neat, or a 2100 sized soaker with a small (2.5-4x) nozzle with good range (powered by a seperate chamber), and a short range riotblast nozzle (powered by a different pressure chamber). Let's make ourselves not a apple or orange, nor an appange, but an apporangle :goofy:

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Adrian
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Post by Adrian » Tue Jan 04, 2005 3:53 pm

Multi-purpose soakers would be interesting, but single-purpose soakers would add an element of strategy not yet seen in water-warfare. Perhaps additional single-purpose attachments for larger guns could be released. Underbarrel shotguns anyone?

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Post by cooldood31 » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:22 pm

Underbarrel shotguns sound good, and so do underbarrel WBLs and (de)attachable pistols, and fan blast attachments. As long as they all have their own resivoirs

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Post by Adrian » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:44 pm

You can pretty much forget about the underbarrel WB. No company's gonna touch the power necessary for a WB with a thirty-nine-and-a-half-foot pole. Detachable pistol could be kind of cool... but I'm trying to figure out where that'd go on a gun and not be in the way. Storm 500 is the absolute smallest you could go...and those suck, and aren't small enough for an attachment. They're standard real handgun size, I don't think you could convincingly clip one on the side of a rifle. Underbarrel shotgun would be the way to go, especially if it was a one-shot, self-contained soaker. Come to think of it, it'd be pretty easy to create. And with some sort of soaker manufacturing standards (think accessory rails on real guns) one could attach to just about any weapon.

Then again, you'd actually need a barrel to attach one to, and not many soakers have real barrels as they are commonly related to guns. You'd have to change the entire design of the soaker. Move the guts backwards, above the trigger or farther (like a Zook), but then you run into the problem of where to put the tank and the pump. QFD only would be the way to go, unless you ran a tubular tank over the top of the barrel (like tubular shotgun or .22 magazines), and had some sort of side-mounted pump. Another thing to do would be to go with a standard gun shape, muzzle, receiver, stock, carrying handle, the whole ball of wax, and then mount a cylindrical (non-seperate p/c)tank (or p/c;QFD only?) under the barrel. Or...you could go the same route, but put a small diaphragm inside the "receiver."

Wow. I just totally redesigned the Super Soaker in under ten minutes. Cool.

Adrian

EDIT:Water gun companies should really be familiar with various modern firearms. I think that could assist them a lot with shape and size issues.




Edited By Adrian on 1104875238
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Post by isoaker » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:37 pm

I believe most water blaster companies are familiar with the design of real blasters, but do their best to avoid making soakers look like 'em (BTW, I know that wasn't Adrian's post's point). However, the current result is that blasters end up lacking some of the flexibility in add-on components that some real fire-arms have. As noted above, due to the need in most cases in having a forward or under-mounted pump, this prevents easy placement of under-the-barrel accessories. Of course, a built-in separate blaster nozzle done well would be great. Unfortunately, unless manufacturing costs can be pushed lower, extra guts and complications in a soaker will undoubtedly drive the price up and potentially beyond the accepted range of the typical soaker consumer. The other major problem facing water blaster manufacturers is the fact that pressure chambers and good-sized reservoir take up a lot more space compared to the magazine and firing chamber found in real firearms. 'tis harder to make a good sized blaster while giving it a good payload and good PC power.

While I like QFD-capable soakers, I'd seriously advise against QFD-only based soakers UNLESS a good portable charging station is created. QFD-only soakers are just confined to areas where a good-pressured hose is available and this limits their use.

While the above ideas are great, I'd still lean more towards specialized soakers that excel in their specialized job than a jack-of-all-trades soaker since those tend to do everything not as well. There should, of course, be good general use soakers akin to the CPS1000/2100/Blazer, but soakers with useful specialties (i.e. decent range area blast, longer-range soaker, heavy cannon with backpack and wb-filler adapter) I think would be the way to go. Having universal-type hard-points on the larger soakers to put add-ons like flash-lights, smaller side-arms, team decals, etc. would be sweet, too, but first and foremost the soakers should feel great, look great, and perform great.

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Post by Iceman » Tue Jan 04, 2005 5:48 pm

Yes, performance is the primary thing in the creation of a water blaster, which in our views it is being highly ignored. There are pro's and con's to making water weaponry like standard weapons.

Texture, Shape

Definatly not a good idea to mold casings in the newest water guns similiar to real guns. Wonder why those cheap uzi like water pistols really never sell? Im sure it would make the guns look cool and appealing, but then again we face the issue of the Assosciated Press and angry parents, could also spook a few folks. I already like the shape of all the new guns, they fit the aspect of Water Warfare almost perfect. However I think larger companies like Wal*Mart and Target would want to create a good looking, creative water blaster.

Specialized Guns

This actually is not a bad idea, the Storm line of guns tried this and in my opinion pulled it off pretty well. The larger the model number, usually the bigger the gun. Im thinking that specialized blasters would definatly add some appeal to the market. also companies can look at the sales of which blaster is most commonly being bought and keep stocking up on those. Really its what the consumer wants. From blaster designs and tests from previous years, we can tell that age group is about 5-11 years of age.

All these new blasters for 2005 look great, but I think it is time that we see another breakthrough in technology for blasters. Although we may not see it, I enjoy watching previews of the new, creative blasters coming out each year (hopefully!). Make a great looking gun and sell it; back it up with power, make it innovative to current technology, and you have one heck of a blaster for a new generation.
_

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Post by RAK » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:53 pm

i agree with isoakers main point regarding the quality of the soaker over the quantity of soakers in one. but it would be an interesting technology push to see one made and in use. i dont think that these all-in-ones (AIO from now on for typing's sake) are in any way just as or more powerful or useful than the soaker they're "combining" but for the ability to multitask, one may be willing to sacrefice quality for a compact AIO soaker design. (ie: why take a cannon and a pistol when you can take them both in one gun which is easier to manage)

as for the idea to mimick or use ideas from current guns, that's being done, i think. why didnt larami start using buttons instead of triggers. why nozzles. our idea of a gun is basically a handgun shape with the trigger and the barrel and that general shape and feel. i think thats as far as the companies will go (and should go) to mimick gun designs. im not talking about making something like cap guns, even for a soaker with fake external tubing and all that, copying real guns' designs is most of the time impractical because of the very different uses.




Edited By RAK on 1104893634

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Post by Hyperion330 » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:42 pm

An idea I got from watching Jurassic Park: the guy named Robert Muldoon (the one always wearing a hat) has a shotgun near the end of the movie, and it has a folding stock. Maybe there could be a water gun with a folding stock so it'd add to the authenticity, yet without getting to cumbersome/useless. I'll try to get a pic.

EDIT: It looked like this, except with spaced circular holes for decoration or something.

Image




Edited By Hyperion330 on 1104896818
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Post by Adrian » Tue Jan 04, 2005 10:56 pm

Folding stock shotgun...I'm 90% sure that's a Spas-12. Nice weapon, would translate nicely into a soaker. If you could put a small tank behind the "receiver" or run a cylindrical tank along the top, and have a fixed Typhoon (or Power Burst) nozzle, you'd have a viable close-range weapon.

One of the things Isoaker addressed was the scale, comparing real guns to water guns. If an entire line were marketted with scaled down capacity, this could probably be "normalized" and would add yet another element of strategy to a "tactical" waterfight, something that would develop with the introduction of single-purpose guns. Also, it'd be an incentive for manufacturers to come up with detachable tanks and p/cs.

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Post by Hyperion330 » Tue Jan 04, 2005 11:20 pm

Thanks to Adrian's Spas 12 tip, I got a better pic.

Image
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Post by ChrisReid » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:19 am

Hyperion330 wrote:Thanks to Adrian's Spas 12 tip, I got a better pic.
You know that shot's from a video game, right? As for these foldable stocks, I really don't see how they'd be usefull. Nothing has enough of a kick to make them remotely necessary, so they'd just get in the way, add to the weight, look like a corny extra doodad, etc.

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Post by Adrian » Wed Jan 05, 2005 12:07 pm

The foldable stock wouldn't do anything, you're right. But imagine extending the stock, and then replacing it with a smallish tank (like a Storm T-Shock), or folding it up over the barrel and putting the tank up there. All sorts of things you could do on that basic shape.

Adrian
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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:28 pm

The first pic is a 870 pistolgrip shotgun (same model on my Avetar and SIG., just without the stock), while the second one is a Spas 12. The front and back frames are a giveaway, same with the pump shape.
This would make it more clearer.

If you add a stock to a sokaer, it would have to be extremly solid build. The MXL tripods were the only fragile thing on the MXL. A stock might jack up the price $5-$10.

P.S: If we talk about good designs which would be worth paying more, a FIBERGLASS frame is the way to go like the Maruzen CA 870 in the link above. But I doubt that will happen with the low expectations of the main consumer mass.




Edited By ANNIHILATOR 2 on 1104958098
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Post by cooldood31 » Wed Jan 05, 2005 3:49 pm

If you take that basic design, put the tank where the stock is (either folded or out) put a diaphram/ pressure chamber near the top middle, make the forgrip the pump and give it a riot blast nozzle (or an internal nozzle changer similar to the armordillo), you'd have a pretty sweet soaker (as long as it still had a decent sized resivoir and good power).

Another idea would be to make it into a piston powered soaker with the tank in the same spot as previously mentioned, do the same thing for the pump, and give it a riot blast nozzle, it would be pretty sweet too.


Yay! Over 100 posts! :crazy:

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Adrian
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Post by Adrian » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:39 pm

You guys ever heard of the Calico firearms company? Their designs would be incredibly easy to emulate for soakers.

Check it out!Calico 900/950
Calico Liberty II

Adrian
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Post by Hyperion330 » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:03 pm

ChrisReid wrote:You know that shot's from a video game, right?

Yeah, I gathered that. And does it really matter?
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Post by Crashdummy » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:19 pm

Adrian wrote:You guys ever heard of the Calico firearms company? Their designs would be incredibly easy to emulate for soakers.

Check it out!Calico 900/950
Calico Liberty II

Adrian

Or you could make a small but useful homemade like a waterworm but better and cram it into the frame of one of those. :oo:




Edited By Crashdummy on 1104970792

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Post by cooldood31 » Wed Jan 05, 2005 8:26 pm

He means using the same design. That would be cool because you could mount a flashlight or pistol sized soaker above the barrel. I think you guys are focusing too much on looks and not enough functionality though.

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