Buzz Bee Toys/Water Warriors - News, Suggestions and Other Info

Discussions of all varieties of stock water guns and water blasters.
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ANNIHILATOR 2
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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Wed Dec 29, 2004 10:58 pm

Every company can make a 60+ feet shooting soaker, but they won't. Distance has a large part to do with lamination. And as for the pressure, it takes better internals than past CPS to get that distance. To improve that, it will jack up the price aswell. Personaly, even 60 feet seems lame, but it would be a first in the soaker retail world. Pressure would be more interesting to me than distance.

Anyways, a good soaker will cost you. And the economy is not good enough to make expensive heavy hitters as best sellers. So who is to blame? Well, the low standard-restrictions of retail stores and low cheap-standards of average consumers. And the hardcore soaker users are not large enough as a group to make any large demands of what should be or not. While Big Bee wants to help us, his hands are partially tied by the market. You guys will squirt 35-40 feet retail blasters for many many years to come. If the sokaer comunity would be as large as the paintball or Airsoft comunity, then perhaps things could change. Hey, most Airsoft and paintball companies even respect them, which is like the twillight zone for soakerdom. Here its just Buzz Bee who has manners, while Super Soaker jerks hardcore consumers around and the others mainly ignore them. But right now, the only way that the water in retail soaker tanks would travel through air with power or distance, is if people would simply throw their blasters at their oponents.




Edited By ANNIHILATOR 2 on 1104399859
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Classical Spirit: Constantly improve power, pressure and style over previous state of the art water gun models. The ideal of "power progress", a nowdays non existent concept in retail water guns since 1997.

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Post by BlueMage » Thu Dec 30, 2004 1:06 pm

what about a design that uses compressed CO² in a tank, like a paintball gun? that way it could just constantly fire, without pumping! plus those big CO² tanks hold enough gas to fill a good-sized water tank say, three or four times. th gun could even be designed around a paintball gun , like with the water tank up on top! :p
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Crashdummy
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Post by Crashdummy » Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:26 pm

The CO² wouldn't be very practical. Little kids don't have places to refill the CO². Also, not everybody has a way to fill the containers.

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Post by ANNIHILATOR 2 » Thu Dec 30, 2004 3:27 pm

CO2 is quite pricy. And people should be aware that a soaker will use alot more CO2 than a painball gun. While paintball is quite powerfull, the paintball guns are even uglyer than the 2004 or EES soakers. It looks like a piece ripped out of a bicycle. Once you will add a CO2 tank on a soaker, people will squirt around with hidious looking equipment.

Another option would be HFC Greengas used by Airsoft Gas Guns, but it would be unstable in a soaker. Especialy in the summer, where the gas would expand more in the heat. Blowing up a PC ain't fun. Plus its pricy aswell.
Be sure to pay $15 for a can of gas, and $50-$150 for just the model if they would ever build a soaker for that.

The unique good thing about soakers was that you can manualy power it. Once sokaers become Gas or Batery powered they become a lame version of a paintball or airsoft gun.

I also should mention that the force of Gas would already go against countless child safety regulations in a soaker.




Edited By ANNIHILATOR 2 on 1104438651
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Classical Spirit: Constantly improve power, pressure and style over previous state of the art water gun models. The ideal of "power progress", a nowdays non existent concept in retail water guns since 1997.

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Post by Big Bee » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:05 pm

Wow! Keep the ideas coming, we really didn't know where to go in '06, now I'm getting a pretty good feel. Thanks!

:soakon:

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Post by RAK » Thu Dec 30, 2004 8:28 pm

how about this...

a soaker with a water balloon adapter that doubles as the nozzle. or a nozzle that doubles as an adapter. whatever. anyway, the nozzle is shaped so that a water balloon can fit snugly and you just shoot the gun to fill it up. pressure should be substantial enough to fill 'er up. and it should be a constant fire no-pump thing too.

also, maybe an improved "soaker tag" design? one that isnt... how do i put it... lame? better reusability. possibly an indicator instead of a dissolvant. a color indicator.

maybe something along the soaker tag lines to make it more of a team thing. like, all red soakers and all blue soakers.

also, i want to be in a commercial. i am sick of 11 year olds playing those parts. i want to run in with 4 soakers slung around my shoulders and i blast one of those kids to the ground and all that's left is a comical and bugs-bunny-like hole in the ground that's in the outline of the victim, i mean kid. that would be sweet. i also want my own private jet and limo service to and from the set.

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Post by Crashdummy » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:13 pm

How about instead of a gun filling the water balloons a device built into the gun with it's own seperate filler. It could be filled with something like a quick fill device and have it's own seperate resivoir from the gun. A button on it will determine the speed the water flows into the balloon. Maybe this water balloon thing could even pop out and be replaced with a new one, kind of like a clip to a gun. That way if the buyer wants to, he/she would be able to buy more of these water balloon filler clips to be able to switch them out in the middle of a soaker war. Hehehe, that would be cool.

RAK, I agree, those little kids running around on the commercials thinking they are hot stuff get annoying and should be tought how a REAL soaker war goes down. :angry:

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Post by Hyperion330 » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:52 pm

I heard a very long time ago on the SSC Forums that there was a special nozzle design that created near-perfect laminar flow. I don't remember the details if they were there, but if there was to be a specialized sniper-type design, I wouldn't mind seeing some modified version of this (getting hit by a perfect laminar flow stream would probably hurt, so I'll assume modifications would be necessary).
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Post by Crashdummy » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:56 pm

Maybe it's the nozzle mod that was done to the cps 21k to get rid of the misty shot you are talking about. ???

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Post by Hyperion330 » Thu Dec 30, 2004 10:02 pm

No, there was a vague reference to it on the Tech section of the SSC boards. I think it wasn't used in soakers because of some safety/price issue. Maybe I should try to dig it up.

EDIT: The search has ended in failure. It's too deep.




Edited By Hyperion330 on 1104463675
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Post by trekkie00 » Fri Dec 31, 2004 10:28 am

New idea! Although this could cause some spray,it should cause extra lamination. However, it could be dangerous because the sharper the tip the more laminated the stream.

Image

The water stream is represented by the blue "lines". To see the principal this works on, hold a spoon under the sink. Not only does the water flow around the spoon, it curves back around. When the water hits this object, it causes the same effect. It basically "curves" the water against itself, combining the streams at the tip for increased lamination.

Basically, by breaking up the stream, this forces the stream to become more laminated.

Please excuse the crude drawing. FYI, the water is able to go around the inward-facing triangle through gaps along the outside.

I can see the new soakers. A foot-long nozzle at the end! It would probably be longer than the soaker in some cases!


Was this it? I posted it on SSC a while ago. You can find it here.




Edited By trekkie00 on 1104507057

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isoaker
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Post by isoaker » Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:30 am

all red soakers and all blue soakers.


I always hated all-red versions versus all-blue versions of a soaker. Guess that's my beef. I'd rather see soakers that can have some sort of decal added or some aspect changed (sorta like how you can replace face-plates on cellphones) to differentiate teams instead of having full-body repaints. Basically, I wouldn't want to buy a red soaker and be stuck always on the red team 'cos my soaker is red.

I'd definitely also like to see some non-blaster water warfare accessories such as arm bands/head bands for team designation, a re-useable hit indicator, etc.

In terms of blasters, though, I want to see the 2005 line still before commenting further.

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Post by Adrian » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:08 pm

I'm with the everybody else when it comes to the commercials. Showing little kids using water guns doesn't sell to big kids. Big kids using water guns sells to both as it increases the "cool factor" of big kids using soakers, and of course, little kids will want to be like the big kids. I'd recommend 13-15 as a great age group for "commerical kids."

Alternatively, you could send me a video camera next summer, as well as a team sized sampling of guns you want to advertise, and I could make a 3 hour war movie for you to cut up and use for commercials. :p

Adrian

Edit:Dang, I think I just stumbled on something. Instead of setting up commercials, you could have people film their own and send them in. Showing REAL customers using your soakers in REAL life, not a set scene. Sort of the way Live did the Overcome music video. That could be VERY interesting, as well as a great marketing uh, gimmick, though I hesitate to use that word.




Edited By Adrian on 1104513162
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Post by SSCBen » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:18 pm

Hyperion330 wrote:I heard a very long time ago on the SSC Forums that there was a special nozzle design that created near-perfect laminar flow. I don't remember the details if they were there, but if there was to be a specialized sniper-type design, I wouldn't mind seeing some modified version of this (getting hit by a perfect laminar flow stream would probably hurt, so I'll assume modifications would be necessary).
I once had an idea (not sure if I posted it) for a long nozzle that decreases in diameter gradually so that the water doesn't just hit the end of the nozzle. What that it? That alone wouldn't create "near-perfect laminar flow," though, you'd also need to do whatever else was necessary. Trekkie's design wouldn't do anything good BTW. That completely violates the rule that states linear flow must be linear.

:goofy:

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Post by Adrian » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:05 am

Something I'm not sure I brought up is the collectability of single purpose soakers. As it stands right now, with the exception of pistols, you can use just about any soaker for any job. I play exactly the same, do exactly the same things with a 4100, a 2700, a Pirahna or an X. So the million dollar question is "Why buy multiples of what is essentially the same soaker for the same job?" With specialized soakers, that wouldn't be a problem. You wouldn't be able to accomplish the same tasks with just one soaker.

Not only would it enhance the collectability of soakers since more than one is now required, it would up the level of strategy required. "Should I bring the rifle or the shotgun? Which will I need? Which will weigh me down too much?" "What kind of game am I going to be playing? Close range? Maybe I'll take the shotgun. Mid range? ...Ah, maybe the medium rifle."

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Post by isoaker » Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:22 am

"Should I bring the rifle or the shotgun? Which will I need? Which will weigh me down too much?" "What kind of game am I going to be playing? Close range? Maybe I'll take the shotgun. Mid range? ...Ah, maybe the medium rifle."

Though I don't think I brought this up in this thread, this idea/concept is definitely something I know I've brought up at one point or another (and also sent such suggestions to both Buzz Bee Toys and Hasbro). Soakers that excel at a particular area (i.e. riot-blast type soaker, extra-long range soaker, etc) would undoubtedly add a new dimension to the water war game.

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Post by cooldood31 » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:26 pm

Um, you guys already have scenario based soakers: shotgun= riotblast md6000 or riot blast 2100. Sniper: 2500, 2000, 21k. Medium rifle :anything from a 6000 to a 4100. Scout pistol md2k to 4k (and xp equivalents), storm pistols, liquidator etc.. Light rifle: md5k to 6k, xp70, xp270, xp310, maxd ss. Supercannons: cps2000, cps 2500, MX, MXL, cps3000/3200. Need I list more?

Just thought of it: upgradeable/ interchangable nozzle selectors. Ones with lots of small-midsize nozzles, one with mid-large size nozzles, one with fanblasts/ riotblasts/ showerhead nozzles etc.. And one with some of each.




Edited By cooldood31 on 1104787975

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Post by isoaker » Mon Jan 03, 2005 4:59 pm

shotgun= riotblast md6000 or riot blast 2100.

Those are not stock soakers. Also, riot-blast modded soakers are ok, but I feel that a well designed nozzle combined with a pressure chamber that's meant for it can doa much better job at an area blast than those modded soakers.

Interchangeable nozzles are a neat idea, but totally removeable ones can lead to nozzle loss. An adjustable iris-type nozzle would be neat, but not sure how cheaply made that type of iris would be while being durable and functional.

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Post by cooldood31 » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:32 pm

Yes a riotblast 6000 is stock, just minus a fewparts :goofy: But anyone who's too lazy to take out a single screw or hack off a nozzle (like my MULTIPURPOSE 6000) probably is too lazy too soak. And what's wrong with multiple scenario use soakers? It's impossible to have an all purpose soaker anyways.

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Post by RAK » Mon Jan 03, 2005 5:45 pm

not really. the 3a (if better designed) idea could be used as an all-in-one with multiple uses. maybe instead of the sponge, it could be water balloons. maybe instead of the useless side-gun it could be a handheld pistol with better range and shot time. if the technology is pushed to the limit, an all in one could be a reality. and if a company is willing to put the product before the profit, i think this kind of soaker is very possible. of course the money is the issue as it is in every other aspect of human life.

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