We expect too much from soakers now!

[Wild Boys]

Sorry if this maybe the wrong place to put this.

Ok, I know people are going to moan at me for saying this, but it seems that now, a lot of people expect too much from a Super Soaker. They won't buy them unless the range is 50 feet or more or something like that. Peoples expectations of Super Soakers just seem to have pushed it too much out of what a water gun brand could make.

When the first revolution of Super Soakers were produced, everyone was so amazed at the ranges and power they had, and things could only get better, and they did as the technology just got better. When the CPS guns came out, it was a great achievement, actually seeing guns that could shoot 50 feet stock. But, there is always a limit on how far you can go on everything. You can't expect something to keep getting better, as eventually, ideas will run out.

I my mind, it seems that now, people are just wanting too much from a water gun. I mean, why did they invent water guns in the first place? It was so that people of all ages could have fun in the Summer blasting about and getting each other soaked, and NOT hurt. Which is a big factor of why guns aren't made insanely powerful. If the CPS 2000 rumour was true, then its pretty obvious why they made guns have less power in them. To stop people from getting hurt.

Then, modding comes into it, modding with a big number of balloons giving it a massive amount of power. To some people, they think it may not hurt, but even playing out of hand with a modded gun can cause a fatel accident.

To me, Super Soakers are for having fun in the Summer, and not creating insane powerful guns that could seriously hurt someone. I admit though, that I have modded soakers before, but I would never plan to take them into battle and use them. I'm not really a big fan of modding, I prefer them stock, nice and simple. Things have gone too far if you ask me and have gone way out of the boundary of what Super Soakers were first meant for. People will disagree with me, and they've got every right to the their own opinion. I think what I think, and you think what you think.

[LIGHT ANNIHILATOR]

I know people are going to moan at me for saying this,

People shouldn't complain, you made a very importiant point that should be adressed. I honestly get really pissed off when people complain about this years super soaker line, and say i could have been better. This years line was the best thing we have gotten in 2 years and thay still say "oh it sucks" and expect a stock gun to shoot 70ft. As for modding in the hands of mature people who dont take head shots modded guns are a great advantage, if you don't push it to far. I often play against younger kids and i set a limit on how strong i want a gun. When i integration modded my 2100 and decided to k-mod it i set a max range at 60ft so it would not hurt anybody. How ever every day we think of new ways to make our guns more powerful and one of these days someone will get hurt because of our greed for power.

[Wild Boys]

Thanks. That's what I mean about modded guns, people mod them so much it gets taken too far and one day somebody will probably get hurt from a modded gun. It could even be the person using the gun that could get hurt, just think if something blows up in the gun and worse consequences could lead on from there. But setting limits is a good idea like you said. What makes modding worse is that you risk your gun breaking more often, unmodded guns can last a very long time with tons of fun in their lives.

While I am still not too impressed by this years line, its a step in the right direction, people expecting a stock gun to shoot 50 feet have to face the fact that stock guns aren't made for things like that. Stock guns are made so we can have fun, and in my opinion, stock guns shoot pretty far anyway.



Edited By Wild Boys on 1128719101

[LIGHT ANNIHILATOR]

Modded guns will break faster than stock if not reinforced, honestly though think they took it a bit to far with the integration modding (witch i call IR modding) and the 11k. If they move on to heavy collosusing and cylindrical pc IR modding someone will definetly get hurt,hurt real bad. I wonder what the tech experts like Duxburian and Doom will have to say about this.

[emperor_james]

While much of what you are saying is true, I disiagree with a lot of it also. I agree that some people want way too much out of their soakers. For a game with 70+ feet of range, take airsoft or paintball, man, you'll be better off. However, I think there is still a lot to be desired from this year's lineup. While the guns may be better than we have seen in several years, they are nowhere near the old CPS guns in performance, though they exceed many in price.

Also, I don't think getting hurt is much of an issue. We're dealing with water, not paintballs, so unless you shove the nozzle down someone's throat and pull the trigger till they drown, I don't think that you can really get hurt with a soaker.

[SSCBen]

For the record, the only way I've seen someone get hurt by a water gun had nothing to do with the stream: they hit the kid with their water gun! That will always be a problem unless water guns are made out of foam in the near future.

It's hard if not impossible to make a battle-practical water gun that will hurt people. Fire hoses bruise people at worst and we're not dealing with anything near that, even with 70 feet of range. Of course, I will always recommend eye protection, but that is mostly because you can not see while being shot on the head! The CPS 2000 rumor is not a rumor, it's a myth!

Most everyone this year said that this year was an improvement, a "step in the right direction" as everyone puts it. I'm not complaining and barely anyone is.

I never once met someone who expected 70 or more feet from a store-bought water gun. I never even met someone who expected a water gun to shoot over 50 feet. That could easily be sarcasm, but it was poor sarcasm at best.

To me, homemade water guns and Super Soaker modifications take with them an understanding that you can't always get what you want. Water guns are a child's toy to most and they will stay that way. People work to get more power in some manner, whether it be through building or talking to manufacturers. I don't think that you Wild Boys should bring up the thought that modifications imply that we expect to much. I think the real question is do those who do not do something to get more power but still complain have the right to? Think about it and you'll see my point - you modify or build because you don't expect much.

Super Soaker modifications are nothing to worry about as far as getting hurt. Any worrying is unfounded anti-modification hype. Homemade water guns are what will cause real problems with the stream if used irresponsibly, and I acknowledge that. I am yet to receive one email about bad experiences with homemade water guns made from the directions on my website, and to me that's a sign that it takes responsibility to make a homemade water gun. That's partially why I never added a step-by-step guide (the other reason is that I've read that step-by-step guides only annoy the people that would build it from the picture and don't help the other guys).

We're not water jet cutting or using any abrasives in the stream. It takes thousands of PSI to cut through things very well. I say over 200 PSI is no-man's-land. Big Bee told me to get a water gun to shoot 100 feet, you'd need 150 - 250 PSI and the right design (though with today's greatest technology, I would go with the lower PSI range).

People have said that someone will get hurt from water gun modifications and homemade water guns for a long, long time. When I first joined Aquatica, I remember reading a thread where loads of people said stuff like "I could see this from a mile away... someone's bound to get hurt." I'm still waiting for someone to get hurt. Maybe someone has, but they sure haven't told me yet. I believe the real reason that SS.com originally didn't like homemade water guns was because it would take away a bit from their sales. Capitalism at it's best!

With all this being said, I am not very pro-modification. I do simple modifications and repairs to the water guns I would use. The main two modifications I use are the modification to add a nozzle selector and the backpack modification. Both are not dangerous in any respect, and both are extremely effective. Some people get the impression that I modify every single water gun I have to an extreme degree, but in reality, ever water gun I've ever modified is in my modifications section! Most of my water guns are stock, unopened!

I am not dissatisfied with the power of the recent years's water guns at all. In fact, I was extremely happy upon the return of CPS and a backpack blaster. Yes, it's not exactly what I wanted, but I wasn't going to buy it anyway!

This was quite a post, but I think I covered the points I wanted to get across. The only people who expect too much are those who aren't willing to try to make an improvement for themselves or others as far as I am concerned.

[LIGHT ANNIHILATOR]

Let's face it whether it's stock, modded, or homemade guns we are all trying to 1up each other with a better gun, probably because we have no confidence in the tactics we talk about. Even you have said "we all want what's better than what's available", we all talk about the importance of tactics when we still use heavily modded guns. I actually find homemades safer than modded guns, modding used to be safer, but now modding has gone out of control because we are all power hungry. If we were as good as we think we are, then it would be our tactics not our guns that would win wars.



Edited By LIGHT ANNIHILATOR on 1128740762

[Wild Boys]

For those of you who still think you can't get hurt from a Super Soaker, read this review, and see that a Super Soaker can still hurt you if playing too wild with them.

But again, people are still going to disagree, although, every single thing can be dangerous in some way, even a peanut can be.

[LIGHT ANNIHILATOR]

Every year my children ask for super soakers and every year I tell them no because they are a gun and I won't let my children play with guns of any sorts.

It seem's like he is one of those overprotective parents who got good cps guns taken away. people rarely get hurt by stock guns, that was just a isolated incident. People probably will get hurt because of modded guns if we take it to far.



Edited By LIGHT ANNIHILATOR on 1128778467

[Adrian]

Well that person's just an idiot. All Super Soakers are dangerous and should be taken off the market...blah blah usual-protectionist-crap blah. We're not living in the Soviet Union, princess, nor some European country where they're seriously considering banning NON-firing gun replicas and kitchen knives. We've got SOME freedom and responsibility here. Don't go trying to mess it up 'cause you never got over the fact that the 60s had to end.

Ok, now that I'm done venting about people who utter asinine statements like "All toy guns should be removed off the market. Why do we have to shoot people? Is that teaching us anything to live by?" I can move on to the real discussion.

First and foremost, waterguns can be dangerous. If you hit someone with them or are irresponsible with them. That's why there are so many age recommendations and warnings plastered all over the packaging and guns. The only relevant discussion here is whether they should be further regulated, not whether they're dangerous or not. Me, I'm a freedom-oriented person, I don't want them regulated at all. And yes, if your toddler has the money for an XL and can hump that thing out of the store, I don't care if he buys it, so long as YOU don't mind.

Are we expecting too much from soakers? Yeah, I think so. We got a little spoiled with a market trend that went in our favor, and then it went against us, badly. Now the market seems to be moving, slowly, in our favor again. We need patience. No, we're probably not going to see a gun that gets 150 feet stock, at least while the current bumper crop of fools is running the regulation end of things. Can things get better, and will they? I have no doubt. In the meantime, free-market solutions like modding and homemades are the way to go for those who want "more power." Ar ar ar

Just remember, with great power comes great responsibility. And yes, I'm aware I'm quoting Spiderman's uncle. :blues:

Adrian

[SSCBen]

If you shoot anything in the face it will cause problems. If you miss with your toothbrush and hit your eyes it won't be good. I agree, everything is dangerous, but by large water guns are not dangerous. They don't even shoot a solid projectile. If that was Nerf or something else, that kid would be blind in that eye. I've read many more stories about kids going blind from Nerf than I'd like to.

I've had blood vessels burst in my eye before, in fact, I nearly once had my left eye poked out! The kid should be fine right now. If anything, manufactured water guns simply due to the massive amount made will have more accidents than homemade ones. I think everyone has some blood vessel burst in their eye at least once in their life. For more information on that injury, read about Sub-conjunctival haemorrhage.

I also don't think anyone said that it was impossible to get hurt by a water gun, just that it's extremely unlikely. I even made sure I acknowledged that... but I suppose you didn't read my 700 word post? Big Bee never said that safety was a real concern too. If anyone remembers, he said the main problem was a price limit set by consumers.

[emperor_james]

Light Annihiliator, more range lets you use more strategy, not less. With the 30 foot maximum and 20 foot practical range of the new stock soakers, there is no point in flanking or ambushing, because you are so close to yoour target. And, you really can't blame people for wanting more powerful guns, to help them in battle. Soaking is, after all, a competitive game.

[LIGHT ANNIHILATOR]

Soaking it a competative game, so we all want better guns to out do each other. I may be contradicting myself but at a time i had the best gun in my neihborhood, and could win any water fight with my cps 2100. Then my neighbor get's a 2100 from the same sports authority i got mine from and it's harder for me to win. To out do him and get the edge i k-mod my 2100. The point i am trying to make is that we ALL (even myself) want to out do the opponent, not with tactics but with firepower.





Edited By LIGHT ANNIHILATOR on 1128792311

[emperor_james]

Well, I suppose it is a little bit different with you, since you only do soakfests, in which you cannot really use tactics. But that aside, powerful guns are a complement, not a supplement, to tactics. Also, I would say that if you are competent enough to perform a k-mod, and your friend is not, then you definately deserve the advantage.

[Some Guy]

I think that it is possible never to have an injury with soakers if you just use common sense, and a few rules. With all my modded guns/homemade I just follow a few rules, and nobody gets hurt.

1. Never shoot within 15 feet unless the person is not likely to mind, or the area won't hurt (i.e. back)
2. Never shoot within 30 feet above mid-way up the chest, neck if shooting from behind
3. Never hit anyone on the head with it (no duh)
4. Only pump partially if playing with people likely to run away crying
5. Over pumping will likely to cause damage to a. the person being quirted, b. yourself, and c. your water gun

All of these rules pretty much are auto matically enforced when using tactis:

1. What the heck! within 15 feet your a very easy target
2. Why shoot from within 30 feet anyway? Only if your in close-quarter shooting, but then it's easy to aim below the mid-chest anyway.
3. You shouldn't be close enough to do that
4. You have more people to play with
5. It may result in a "suicide elimination" and you lost a primary gun



Edited By Some Guy on 1129113189

[NiborDude]

Would I like long range soakers, yes. Will it happen again, probably not. There just isn't a large demand for long range soakers. Most buyers for super soakers are kids 12 and under. They don't want range necessarily. Most just want a gun that looks cool. If Hasbro were to make long range guns, it would be awesome, but it's too unlikely.

[LIGHT ANNIHILATOR]

My position on this topic has slightly waverd since yesterday. It turns out that guns were made to be modded. If they didn't want their guns modded they would have glued them shut, and made them impossible to be open without breaking something.

[Adrian]

^^^I don't think any Hasbro exec decided to screw their guns together rather than use glue because someone might be modding them. It's probably a cost/ease thing.

Adrian

[ZOCCOZ]

Well, I read everyone's post in here and all I say about this is that: People have a right to complain about current soakers because they simply suck.

Step up from last year or not ( not a step up from 2003, since the MXl/MX revisions are 2003), it doesn't matter since I have not just become aware of waterguns from 2004 on, but from 1984 on. If a SS300 can woop that Devastator's or Flash Flood's behind, its hard to not see those as crap.

I, and other critics do what experienced/jaded critics simply do who have seen franchises of water toys. We compare new stuff to what has been made in the past and give it its deserving rating. Its like comparing new crapy movies like "Dukes Of Hazard" or "Herbie the Bug" with old classics like "Casablanca" or "Scarface". Yes, those new movies are a step up to "Gili", but they still suck. I understand that criticism might be anoying for some, but its amusing for us critics. Its definatly time better spend than using those sorry pieces of 2005 plastic ... .

[marauder]

For those of you who still think you can't get hurt from a Super Soaker, read this review, and see that a Super Soaker can still hurt you if playing too wild with them.

But again, people are still going to disagree, although, every single thing can be dangerous in some way, even a peanut can be.

I am very mad at that lady. You could get hurt with just about any "toy" if you use it the wrong way.