"Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Water warfare game types, ideas, rules, organization, etc.
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"Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby HBWW » Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:09 pm

Air pressure only, BBT only, XP only, etc. The list goes on and on and on, and blasters like the Flash Flood, Splashzooka, etc. are left out. In the meantime, we have SS 300's and APH's going against Colossus' in AP-only games. BBT-only is more fair, but a Vindicator or Gorgon can still outmatch a Colossus, Python 2, etc. easily unless there's a wide skill gap. XP-only leaves out those without a good collection of working XP's, particularly the 150, 300, and XXP's.

This thread will be an attempt to create fair blaster groups/lists for a more universal special blasters only game rules. We can create variations of this, but they should be practical and utilize widely held blasters. (i.e. Avoiding games like SC-Only.)

Here's a proposed blaster group:
- Exclude all CPS line blasters and homemades (Except stock CPS 1-3-5 and CPS Splashzooka)
- Exclude the SS 300
- Include all blasters with a maximum of 3x nozzles (Plus Flash Flood, Arctic Blast, and Iron Man blasters)

With a group like this, a lot of blasters become more practical. Any BBT WW is a great fit in this group as well as pumpless SC blasters. We may opt to exclude additional blasters that may unsettle things such as the SC Power Pak, but we'd have to see what stands out. Perhaps the best BBT's may overpower everything and we may have to exclude the Gorgon, Vindicator/Vanquisher, and/or others.

Catering to the 2x class of blasters becomes a bit different. Lots of BBT's higher class becomes out of reach and almost all blasters are AP or HP. PR's become a viable option, even dual wielded Max-D's. We could define this class simply by restricting the highest range nozzle of a blaster to ~2x. Larger nozzles must not exceed this range nor exceed ~5x. (This would allow, say, the Piranha or a Max-D 6000 with drilled nozzles, or a de-nozzled 310 *(Edit: corrected from 300, sorry), but not a Flash Flood, Orca, Gorgon, Vindicator, etc.)

Keeping definitions simple is ideal so that any blaster, including homemades, can be evaluated. However, it doesn't account for a lot of factors. For example, if we restrict only by output, we get small CPS's but no Flash Flood, even though the small CPS's outclass FF's considerably. Building our own lists allows us to work with things more, but it can also become too bureaucratic and complicated.

The end goal is very simple though: to create battles that are not owned by CPS's and high end AP blasters. Battles that make room for variety; odd but fun blasters like the FF/AB/IM or Splashzooka, and even silly blasters like the Backfire or Oozinator. These battles become much closer in range and also faster paced; they may require more solid and tightly packed cover to be fun. The advantage of this over BBT-only or AP-only is that the list is not specialized; defining it is what's tricky.

They are also good for asymmetrical games that call for unbalanced blasters. Some HTL variation can be thrown together this way. The problem is having to pack more blasters, but if we can all agree on what should be done ahead of time at community wars, it will work out if planned properly.

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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby isoaker » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:47 am

I like the general idea behind this game type. Part of me wonders whether the definition of a "light blaster" can be objectified a bit. Instead of using simply maximum output as a cap, a combination of maximum output, range, and shot time would probably better define what would or wouldn't fall into allowable blasters for this game type. The problem, of course, is that it gets a little more complicated to work out the numbers.

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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby the oncoming storm » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:56 am

My terms for a blaster are much simpler than CA99's terms
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Light blaster

main combat nozzle under 5x
Loaded and pumped weight not to exceed 7lbs
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Medium blaster

Main combat nozzle under 10x
Loaded and pumped weight not to exceed 11lbs
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Heavy blaster

anything with a 10x nozzle exceding 40' range
or loaded weight over 11lbs
Last edited by the oncoming storm on Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby SEAL » Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:59 am

I think restricting blasters based on power is a good idea (size is irrelevant); I'd go with a combination of output and range (I don't think shot time is that important). For example, for a "light blaster only" round, output has to be no greater than 5X, and range cannot exceed 40 feet. I actually had ideas like this a while ago (before Frozen Fury I think), but I literally forgot about them until now. Maybe that's what I will do for Downpour. I can still see certain blasters dominating such rounds though. We could do an even lower class, like 2X output or less, and 35 foot range or less, but then we start to have the problem of too many weapon classes again. I understand why DX is against too many classes, because I usually have to transport weapons for three or more people. At Soakemore, there was simply no more room in my car for anything but the best weapons. If it were just me, then I could pack guns for multiple classes, but I'm usually bringing other people too.
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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby DX » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:01 pm

I think the best way to construct a class is to simply whitelist individual models. Making restrictions based on range, output, weight, size, etc create more objective classes, but they are also "machine dumb" and don't take factors into account that only a person can correct for. Triple Shot anyone? CPS 1-3-5? Flash Flood? Homemades? Since water guns are so variable, there are examples that break every class.
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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby SEAL » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:15 pm

Maybe it's better to classify blasters by overall power instead. For example, if a blaster has 6X output but only gets 30 feet, it would still count as a light blaster (in terms of power, not size). Same goes for a blaster like the Colossus that can shoot 40 feet, but only has like 1X output. I do think we should make a list classifying blasters into different groups though. However it might be a bit of a challenge, and we need to know what kinds of specialty groups we are going to have.
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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby the oncoming storm » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:17 pm

Well I think my classes work best, For they are loosely based on Hydrowar's designations,and drew the light class based on the model so that XP 150, Colossus 2 , and Explorer are put in it but not the CPS 2100 or anything bigger

To avoid confusion I have added one more criteria to heavy weapons class, Must clear 40' on the 10x or larger setting (allowing the Gorgon to still be medium but not the 4100)
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And seal I strongly disagree, Size does matter. If someone is using a CPS 1-3-5 in a light blaster round his size will give him a Massive shot time and field life advantage, meaning that while statically he only rivals the XP 70 he can easily beat Colossus and maybe even XP 150's in battle
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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby HBWW » Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:31 pm

I want to trek the numbers very carefully, because as we know, stats do not define the battle practicality of a blaster. Originally, I considered a simple function based on output and total capacity, but that too, has its issues if we want to include blasters like the FF and Orca while excluding the small CPS's. I excluded homemades for simplicity's sake; there was no other reason I had for doing so.

Thus why I opted for making the list that I did. If we want to go further than that list, (i.e exclude stock 1-3-5's, Orca, etc.), output is a good factor to begin with, but as Duxburian just pointed out, doesn't cover the Triple Shot as I carelessly forgot about.

I suppose in that case, the whitelist is the best way to go. If we setup based on rules, people can always try to find their way around them which is partially why I opted to blacklist homemades. Mods however, become more difficult. Nozzle drillings are fair on most blasters, but on a 1-3-5, can make the blaster unfair especially if combined with plugged nozzles. The variation on blasters not only throws off rules we can set, they also make it very difficult to draw a line at what's too powerful and what's acceptable, which is why I proposed two possible areas; one with the Orca/FF as the cap, and one with common 2x AP/HP blasters as a cap. My second definition does allow for the Triple Shot (unless its large nozzle actually does get more range than smaller nozzles), but it's still a finicky ruleset that may have cases I did not consider.

For my local wars, it's always simpler and in one game I was simply able to separate into two piles of blasters away from each other to setup "light blasters only" games. I guess I'm just trying to rework this for community wars. In the end, I may attempt both approaches and see what comes out of both: 1. Define a function for restricting blasters on various factors: capacity and output in particular (any factor involving range is too finicky due to the difficulty of getting objective range numbers), and 2. Define a whitelist. (Or rather, improve on the one above.)

The end goal is to phase out AP-only, BBT-only, XP-only, and other such specific games. I see two good classes to define at this moment, but I do want to cut that down to one for the reasons mentioned above. In this case, I may opt to define the "light" class even more restrictively so that small blasters like Max-D 3000's can play competitively. (With their primary disadvantage being capacity instead of performance.)

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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby marauder » Tue Jun 18, 2013 3:54 pm

Every blaster has specific advantages and disadvantages over other blasters simply because no 2 models are exactly alike. Just like no 2 teams will be completely balanced because we are all different. We need to admit this before we can move on with defining blaster classes.

iSoaker is right, it is going to be very difficult for us all to agree on what counts as a light blaster or light primary. Someone mentioned that we should keep output to 5x or lower and range to 40 feet or lower. If we were cool with that then we would all be using stock 1200s, 1000s, and 2100s. I don't think that's what we want.

Because of this I also agree with DX. There are too many variables involved, therefore it's easiest to decide on a blaster by blaster basis. For instance, the XXP 275 has dual 4x nozzles, that's an output of 8x with even greater spread, but only shoots 36 feet. A stock Gorgon, on the other hand, has an output about half that amount but shoots 40+ feet. Is the 275 heavier because of output or is the Gorgon heavier because or range? Is an XP 250 closer to a CPS 1000 or to an XP 150? The 250 has 4x output and ~38 ft range are closer to the 1000's stats than to the average 150, but then again I've seen 150s shoot anywhere between 33 and 38 and what about the 250's lack of a real trigger and its lack of CPS tech? If we had this light blaster class would we start complaining that some people have XP 250s and Gorgons and other people have to use 310s? We already have CA99 complaining about XP only rounds because the 270 isn't on the same par as 150s.

You see where I'm going? There are too many variables. My point is that I think we care too much about blaster classes to come up with any easy, solid answer that everyone can agree on. If SEAL or someone else wants to have a "light blasters only" round at their war I will gladly give my opinion on what guns count, but it should come with a big asterisk that says not everyone's going to be happy and there's still going to be pros and cons from one gun to another.
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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby SEAL » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:07 pm

the oncoming storm wrote:And seal I strongly disagree, Size does matter. If someone is using a CPS 1-3-5 in a light blaster round his size will give him a Massive shot time and field life advantage, meaning that while statically he only rivals the XP 70 he can easily beat Colossus and maybe even XP 150's in battle


Oh, size definitely matters (or at least that's what the ads say). Just not in water warfare. Field life doesn't mean much in OHK or even OHS. It doesn't matter if you have twice as much water as your enemy if you're eliminated. Also, size doesn't even mean that you'll last longer. Look at the Hydro Cannon; it lasts a fraction of the time that a smaller blaster like the MD 6000 does. I don't know about some of you, but I never valued field life and shot time as much as other stats like range and output. In my experience, it's just not that important.

I think we should just review borderline blasters and decided on which class to put them in. Same goes for modded guns. Also, if a certain gun starts dominating in it's class, we could always move it up a notch. I think it all boils down to how good a blaster is in combat. Unfortunately we don't all know how good X blaster will do, so some trial-and-error is necessary here. I agree with marauder that we seem to care too much about blaster classes. We should just be more flexible. It is water warfare after all; skill plays a much bigger part than guns.
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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby HBWW » Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:44 pm

But... but... shelf space was the reason they couldn't re-release the CPS 1000! Hurr durr derpity derp.

In water warfare, size usually means higher capacity, which means less likely to have issues with field life given a certain level of power/output. Field life matters when it gets low or in certain games that draw out very long. (Think HTL @ MOAB.) The times when it doesn't matter for dirt is when you're taking a CPS 2000 against a Vindicator. The only thing that'll matter in that situation is whether the 2000 user can move and shoot, and whether the Vindicator user can move faster.

On second thought, a 270 vs a 150 isn't so bad, but the real problem is that the 270 is my only option. I suppose that's still better than, say, Colossus vs. Vindicator though, but it does get a bit hairy when a 270 has to take on a 275. (Though still doable.)

The point here isn't blaster classes, it's about getting a group together that fights well with each other in a fair manner. We want a group that isn't dominated by a few blasters which is clearly the case for our standard wars, so that people are not discouraged from bringing a wider variety of blasters than just CPS's, and are not restricted to the XP/BBT/AP groups. I still want to propose two whitelists so that we have one option that allows more blasters, and one that allows PR's to be competitive. Unfortunately, due to how blasters in different brands/types are cut out, the lines aren't clear to draw and are rather bumpy. For example, allowing XP's and BBT's while skipping all CPS's (except for stock 1-3-5- and Zooka) skips over stock 1000/1200/2100 which are competitive with the best BBT's, but not competitive with the smaller 2x blasters.

Will have to be careful here I guess.

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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby marauder » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:15 pm

Like I said before, if you include 1000s etc then everyone will be using 1200s, Vindicators, etc. and there will be no difference between games played with this set of allowed guns and small CPS rounds. I mean, "small CPS" rounds didn't even begin as small CPS only, but that's as large of a blaster as you're allowed to use. It's still that way. So really, there would be absolutely no difference.
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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby HBWW » Tue Jun 18, 2013 5:43 pm

In that case, we need to exclude those blasters and focus on ones that are competitive with a set of 2x shooting reference blasters (say, we could start off with the Max-D 3000, 6000, Piranha/Tiger Shark, and Colossus for the reference blasters). I will start with the following list, going chronologically and then by product lines/series:

- Include all pre-CPS blasters except for SS 300, XXP 275 (debatable). I may be missing some more exceptions here.
- Include all SC line blasters except SC Power Pak. (Debatable on Big Trouble.)
- Include all BBT WW's except CPS's and blasters with more than one PC. May need to readjust this to specifically exclude higher performance/capacity WW's, including the Vindicator, Vanquisher, Orca, Gorgon, and possibly Blazer. (I have not used a Blazer so I don't know if it's competitive with a Max-D.)
- Include all SS's after 2002 (except for 4100 re-release), and all Max-D's. (FF/AB/IM are debatable)
- Include CPS 1-3-5 (stock) and Splashzooka. 1-3-5 is debatable. Definitely need to exclude modded 1-3-5's.
- Include all non-SS and non-WW branded water blasters except homemades.
- Homemades must be approved manually unless we agree on a set of rules for them.

Here's a list of blasters in the grey zone:
- FF/AB/IM
- CPS 1-3-5
- BBT categorization for higher end blasters

This is where the line gets blurred. We can probably allow stock 1-3-5's into the group, but definitely not modded ones (nozzle drill + plugging the other 4 nozzles reportedly makes a 1-3-5 at least as effective as the 1000/1200/2100 which are out of this list and definitely not competitive with the reference blasters.) The main question is whether it's still competitive with the group referenced. If others want it to stick around, we'd have to change the reference group to include, say, the FF/AB/IM group which does shift things a little bit around.

It's a tricky line to draw, but that's why I started this thread.

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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby marauder » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:05 pm

I guess those qualifications fit pretty well. I'm not sure if I'd particularly care for that kind of round, but I don't have any major objections about the blasters included.

I would be showing up with an XP 70 unless my brother's SC 600 still works or I end up with the time and money to finish modding my XP Pool Pumper Blaster, but then it would probably end up too powerful for the class.
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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby HBWW » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:09 pm

Heh, there ya have it, I forgot about the pool pumper too, which is why I focused more on the "competitive with small list of reference blasters" definition.

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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby SEAL » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:23 pm

Well here are what improvements I think should be made:

- I would include the 275. Why does everyone seem to think it's so good? If you're going to exclude it, then you might as well exclude the XP 250, MD 6000, etc.
- I don't know about the Power Pak because I've never used one, but if what I've heard about the Big Trouble is true, it qualifies.
- For BBT guns, the Vindicator and I guess Gorgon should definitely be excluded, and maybe the Vanquisher too, though it isn't all that powerful. I don't know about the others because I haven't used them.
- I would include the FF/AB/IM2; they aren't very powerful. I'm not sure about those with nozzle mods though; I know I wouldn't include modded Hydro Cannons.
- I would definitely include stock 1-3-5s, but not modded ones.
- I don't know if we should include Stream Machines or similar powerful syringe blasters. They are threatening enough in anything-goes rounds, especially if a water source is present.
- I agree that homemades should be manually approved.

Just as long as we exclude CPS and similar blasters, we should be good to go. Most blasters below small-CPS level are competitive with one another. I'd take a 270 against a 275 any day of the week. As for the PPB, I don't think I've ever seen one fire so I don't know.
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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby HBWW » Tue Jun 18, 2013 6:38 pm

Stream Machines are way too restrictive to be a threat IMO. Even if we're playing near a natural water source, you cannot shoot when outside of the area. Lastly, they are difficult to shoot accurately and can spill easily. I think they are fair to include.

I kind of figured that on the 275, but I wasn't completely sure since I never actually handled one. What's your opinion on excluding the Big Trouble? That 8.5x could cause some "Trouble" for us. :goofy:

FF/AB/IM2 are quite powerful, at least as capable as a 4100. They are primarily held back by low capacity, which is why I'm hesitant to exclude them, but they're also able to overpower the reference blasters quite easily. Perhaps they and the HydroCannon are permissible. I'd definitely include a nozzle modded HydroCannon considering how small the PC is, but obviously no PC swaps or anything like that. I'd be less forgiving on the FF/AB/IM2 group on mods if they're included, perhaps permitting only the common nozzle drill on the main nozzle. (Fact is, drilled nozzles are too common and irreversible to ban, so I'm trying to avoid doing so unless it's for something like the 1-3-5.)

Anyway, we're getting somewhere! Thanks for the feedback!

SEAL wrote:Most blasters below small-CPS level are competitive with one another.


This is true, and is part of the reason why I proposed this whole ruleset in the first place.

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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby DX » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:17 pm

I don't think stock vs modded considerations should be made. Modding things creates more variability and we've never had rules against modding before. Who would want to use a stock 1-3-5? Ever tried? Especially knowing the potential improvements it can have?

Also, every game is going to be dominated by a few models at the high end of the allowed class. Hello, Pokemon? Hundreds of options, a dozen useful ones. If you want the most variety, you will need to accept guns that are overpowered in one category and underpowered in another.

The real trick is to design a top level within a class where everything has strengths and weaknesses, not a top level where everything is the same. If everything is the same, you get BBT-only style standoffs. That's why I dislike BBT rounds - there are not enough differences in performance. The best BBT guns have the same strengths and weaknesses - high range, mediocre output, super high field life, low pump volume.

This is why the 2000 makes regular rounds less standoffy - the range and output are OMG but the shot time and field life suck. If you don't have that kind of strength and weakness balancing, everyone's using 1500s and 2500s, so it becomes a standoff factory like BBT-only rounds.

Something like a 250 or 275 is a good inclusion in a light primary class. They have higher output, but are heavier and harder to use.

The Power Pak belongs in a higher class. It has a 10x nozzle with serious shot time. The FF/AM/IM might be interesting. Huge output on the flood nozzles, but otherwise pedestrian main nozzles and low capacity. Those could become the CPS 2000s of a light class. The Big Trouble is more up in the air. It has almost a 10x nozzle, but it barely goes anywhere. However, with a bit of wind, that might be going pretty far while other streams get shredded.

I agree that the Vindicator and Gorgon are out. The Blazer should be out because a drilled one can be a pretty good all-around gun and the Orca should be out cause you can swap the PCs and nozzle selectors. All-around guns in this class should be in the 150, Colossus, Python, Vanquisher neighborhood imo. Not sure about the Tiger Shark. It has similar issues as the Big Trouble. No range, but high output. This is one of the guns where maybe we could experiment. Low range, high output guns could introduce more strength and weakness variety.

Stream machines are definitely not light primaries. Those things shoot over 60ft. You don't even need to be strong to get that, just able to apply a lot of force all at once. While the accuracy sucks and usable area limited to water sources, they are one of the only things capable of threatening water cannons. When I had the water cannon at Soakermore, I didn't have to respect anything anyone was wielding against me, except Jon's Stream Machine cause it has the range to tangle with a cannon.
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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby marauder » Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:42 pm

Vanquishers and Tiger Sharks should definitely be included if SEAL's modded Max D 6000 is legal. I also don't get why Blazers are out. My most powerful nozzle is the second largest (3x) which shoots 37 feet. The largest nozzle is about 5x and shoots 34 feet. I don't see how that's very intimidating, and drilling it out even more is obviously only going to decrease range. The 2 Splashzookas I tested both shot 39 at ~2.1x, and the Ultimate Explorer I had shot 38 ft on 2.5x. Is that really much of a difference? Or is my Blazer just way underpowered versus everyone elses?

I second what DX says about modded guns.
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Re: "Light Blasters Only" Rules for Community Wars

Postby HBWW » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:04 pm

IMO, the Tiger Shark's high output results in a lot of velocity and range loss. I would rather the power of a FF instead in most situations, although the great stream lamination is not to be taken lightly.

Blazers do need a debate, I suppose. I haven't picked one up myself, and milage between models vary, so that's up to you guys to debate.

Mods are difficult to go around, but they can make blasters cross the line we want to establish. I think stock 6000 is fair, but large, high performance PC's on it does put it close to Gorgon territory (i.e. the one SEAL has). At the same time, don't want to throw down the mods people work to make, so I'm not sure how to balance this out. However, I think we can all agree that most nozzle mods are fair, especially on blasters that don't have the capability to push out larger nozzles very well. (Such as with the Tiger Shark.) I guess if we're going to agree on no limits to mods (except stock internals: stock piping, firing valve, PRV), then we do have to throw out the 1-3-5 for sure.

We do want to keep the reference blasters in mind, however. I think the Tiger Shark is a very fair match against the Colossus; the large nozzle vs. the quad in particular have distinct advantages and disadvantages.

Very unsure about the Vanquisher. It seems weaker and less capable than other BBT's, but it's still CPS, and still has very disproportionate capacity compared to the rest without really making up for it it some other way.

On the other hand, we can definitely throw the Splashzooka up for debate. It's probably more powerful than I was giving it credit for, although it doesn't have much room for modding.

I still need to combat-test the Stream Machine in more battles. I'm under the impression that its limitations more than make up for its range capabilities, especially if the user has to depend on buckets or other small sources to reload. That range and output is literally the only thing it has going for it, which is why most of us would take a CPS 1200 over a Stream Machine in almost every circumstance. In addition, the Stream Machine was still no match against mobile CPS users during the beach landing.

Anyway, I'm taking it that people don't want things dumbed down too much, and that we will not be catering to some of the lighter blasters. Stuff like the Colossus or XP 270 will require a fast user who can take advantage of the higher field life, and the rest goes up from there. The Python 2 and Max-D 3000 may not even reach in here very far.

Edit: Update to the list from the above suggestions:

- Include all pre-CPS blasters except for SS 300. 250 and 275 are included due to how unwieldy they reportedly are (or appear to be lol).
- Include all SC line blasters except SC Power Pak and Big Trouble.
- Include all BBT WW's except CPS-based ones and BBT blasters with more than one PC. Possible exceptions include the Vanquisher and Blazer, which are currently debatable. I would personally prefer to avoid the high-capacity BBT's, dual PC's, and CPS's.
- Include all SS's after 2002 (except for 4100 re-release), and all Max-D's. FF/AB/IM2 are now included. HydroCannon should be included IMO, but this is where mods can get to be a problem. (Backpack HydroCannon with CPS 2500 bladder and an appropriate 8x nozzle, anyone?)
- Splashzooka is debatable, 1-3-5 is excluded.
- Include all non-SS and non-WW branded water blasters except homemades. Stream Machines and similar syringes are debatable after DX's comments on them.
- Homemades must be approved manually.

Pretty clear that there's a whole ton of factors at play here. People have personal stakes in what we end up agreeing on since everyone has different blasters. PC mods can take a blaster to be more than expected. This is the main reason I avoided the idea of a light blasters only classification in the first place, but after seeing the sheer limitations of XP/BBT/AP only, I wanted to try this out.

I'm still strongly considering limiting mods in this game to nozzle mods. The combination of nozzle and PC modding can turn some blasters into very different beasts especially if they have the internals for it.


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