Invasion

Water warfare game types, ideas, rules, organization, etc.
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HBWW
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Invasion

Postby HBWW » Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:46 pm

I hereby shamelessly rip this off of Halo Reach. The theory behind it is not really complicated though; it is simply a series of assault/defense based objectives coming one after the other, though usually with slightly different spawning rules than usual. A game of Invasion consists of two rounds, and each round consists of up to three sub-rounds, or phases.

In the first phase, weapons/loadouts are quite limited, and the match takes place on a fairly small area. Objectives are simple, such as capturing a certain point or bombing an objective, and there are usually two objectives that can be attacked. If either one is achieved before the allotted time runs out, the round moves into phase two. In phase two, the equipment options expand somewhat, and the playing field becomes fairly large, close to or the same size as it is in the final phase. The objectives for phase two are also fairly simple, but failure to complete them in the re-adjusted time limit will end the round.

In the last phase, the battlefield is at its largest. Equipment options are in their full incarnations, giving the best tiers to both teams, and the game becomes full-scale. Usually, the objective for this phase is the most difficult, and CTF (or variations of it) is common. Completing this phase means the attacking team wins all three possible points for the round. (Whereas completing phase 2 but failing phase 3 means the team receives 2 points for the round, and 1 point for achieving to phase 2 but failing before three. Obviously, no points are given if no phases are completed.)

In the second round, the attackers and defenders swap places, roles, equipment, etc. and the fun begins all over again.

Spawning. The defending team may only spawn at locations close to the objective in phase one (not that they'd want to spawn anywhere else), while the attacking team has their own spawn location for phase one. The attacking team's spawn for this phase is also known as the backfield spawn point, and they may respawn here anytime for the rest of the round to stock up on war material. In phase two, the defenders still spawn near the objective; they may not use their old spawns for phase one. The attackers may spawn at points close to the phase one objective they just completed, or they may spawn at the backfield. In phase three, the defenders are pushed back to their final spawns (which sometimes happen to be the same as those in phase 2), while the attackers spawn point may advance depending on how the game's objectives are setup. The phase two and three objectives are often placed closely together and if that's the case, the spawn points usually do not change at all between phases two and three. Usually, players may also spawn by a player, but this is controlled by certain rules.

Battlefield Bad Company 2 has a game similar to this, and one may argue that Reach took the idea from BFBC2. However, I (unfortunately, and shamefully) do not have this game and have only played the demo a few times before it closed, so I don't quite know the main differences between the two games regarding this gametype.

From FPS to WW: This game needs some adjustments to be playable for a water war. All objectives must be suitable for water wars, and at least two players (one on each team) need to be running a timer to know when a phase ends. Unfortunately, seamless transitions between phases (like in the actual game) may not be possible or easy to do, so they may be omitted. Spawning, for the most part, remains similar to the spawning in Halo Reach, but I would opt to remove the restriction on fireteams placed in Reach. (The rule is that each team is divided into three fireteams, and each fireteam is restricted to certain spawn points unique to each fireteam throughout the game, except for the backfield.) I would also handle spawning on players differently.

In fact, I will go over, in good detail, my own way of setting up Invasion.

Phase one: Players are restricted to "light water weapons" only. All CPS's, hoses, etc. are banned from this phase. Players may refill via water bottles/containers only and may not use hoses/faucets. I will have to build up a good definition of "light WW" in order to carry this out effectively, or I get people picking up CPS 12k's like last time. Spawn points are fixed, with one backfield location for the assaulting team and one temporary location for the defending team. The attacking team may use a mobile spawn points, where they may set anywhere on the map they wish. However, once it is set, it may not be moved. Players also may not spawn on the mobile point until it has been set. It may be destroyed by the defenders by simply soaking it, and may not be used again for the phase after being destroyed. All rules on spawn intervals are in place for all teams and spawn points. The rule is every fifteen seconds. (i.e. a watch is positioned at all spawn points and when players reach the spawn point, they must wait until the seconds counter reaches a multiple of fifteen in order to spawn.) The objective for this round will be a conquest object; players must completely blast one out of two specified targets in order to complete this phase. The objective will be located at an area slightly far away from my house, and the time limit is three minutes but may be adjusted.

Phase two: All water weaponry is now permitted, except for hoses, WBL's, cannons, and other super-weapons. However the defenders will have access to one relatively short hose. The objective will be another conquest object, but it will be slightly more difficult. The objective is a .5L water bottle that will be fixed in place (via duct tape or something), and the attacking team must completely fill up the bottle. There will be two of these bottles, and filling up either one will win the round. (With a time limit of three minutes.) I don't want to turn it into a Soakn' Destroy round because that's too many rules to shove at players. The attacking team may now use up to three spawn points, but may only have one out at a time. They may decide to manually remove a point in order to move it somewhere else, or the defending team may destroy it. In either case, moving a point or bringing up a new one will count against their number of spawn points that they may use.

Phase three: Objective is CTF with a 5 minute time limit. The flag must be taken back to the attacker's backfield spawn in order to score. Attackers may use up to ten mobile spawn points and may have up to three of them out at a time. Both teams will be permitted to use any water weaponry available, except that only defenders may use WBL's. (I don't want water balloons launched TOWARDS my house.) Two hoses also belong to the defenders, who will guard their flag viciously. (They may however, be "stolen" and used by the attackers.) The defenders have two WBL's with which they may only fire one shot out of for each one for the round. (This rule will change in the future to allow as many shots as the team can handle, if WBL usage goes smoothly in the games.)

Of course, this is roughly specified right now. I have quite a lot of details to work out in order to have a fully playable gametype up. This game is very intricate by nature and is very likely to fail.

soakernerd
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Re: Invasion

Postby soakernerd » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:11 pm

How many players do you have?!? I can only manage 3 or 4 way soakfests when I am lucky :(
I would suggest changing the spawn rules to 3:15. Each player gets 3 lives. each time they lose a life, they leave the battle and count for 15 seconds, at which point they return to their spawn points and come back. once they have been soaked 3 times, they are out for the rest of the "phase".
You will need very specific ways of determining when a spawn point is "destroyed".

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martianshark
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Re: Invasion

Postby martianshark » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:26 pm

Cool. I can't wait. I hope it works. Will there be any more phases?

This could possibly give water warfare some popularity.
CA99 wrote:It's funny because you can get 5 water bottles and a pencil for much less than $90.

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Re: Invasion

Postby soakernerd » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:35 pm

Speaking of popularity, that is one benefit of hasbro's new styling/marketing: It targets older players.
I suggest towels on a PVC frame as objectives. Soak the towel, and that objective is achieved. You could vary the size for difficulty.

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HBWW
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Re: Invasion

Postby HBWW » Wed Mar 09, 2011 10:52 pm

I've had up to 6v5 games. 6v6 (the standard Halo Reach invasion match) is just one player away, but it will indeed be difficult to get it working. What I may do initially (if I don't get enough players) is to play out only phase three, adjusted to accommodate fewer players and take less time. This will give me a chance to have live-field tests of the WBL's without trying something too radical at once. People generally don't like having unfamiliar rules shoved at them, and the actual players who make it to the wars will vary a ton merely from one war to another. The original specifications of Invasion are only three phases, and I think it's plenty to start off with.

I haven't worked with anything other than infinite lives and 1-life/elimination. Nerf's 3/15 may work though.

Somewhat good idea on the towel. However, I'm pretty lazy to build that up, though I may need to do something about the lack of cover in the drainage ditch in the middle of our map sometime. I would also argue that it may become difficult to tell how dry the towel is, whereas, any square of toilet paper completely devoid of any of its original structural integrity will obviously be destroyed.

Hasbro targets older players with, ironically, childish and gimmicky water guns. The HP is their only blaster even worth taking a glance at.

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scottthewaterwarrior
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Re: Invasion

Postby scottthewaterwarrior » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:56 am

Nice game type, haven't tried it in reach but it sounds fun. I only play reach at my friend’s house and even than I normally play firefight, I'm bad enough against the computer. If my friends have enough patience, which I doubt, I will try this some time. And sorry I haven’t been on in a wile, been real busy.
"If you are wet at the end of a water war, you are doing it wrong"
Van: "What happened?" SEAL: "Scott Happened"

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HBWW
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Re: Invasion

Postby HBWW » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:16 am

Learning to aim via thumbstick is far more difficult than learning on a mouse, as the mouse is a commonly used device. Aside from that, learn how the game works. Every game has its own little way of tinkering, and Bungie was very mindful of putting a certain flow and balance to Halo Reach. Every weapon interaction within the game is considered carefully to ensure that no weapon ended up being completely useless. (Well, except for the Plasma Repeater and AR, of course.)

I'll need to scale and this game around. I'm mostly set now on testing just phase three for the HBWW Season Opener of 2011.

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HBWW
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Re: Invasion

Postby HBWW » Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:52 am

I have updated the specs for the full Invasion game, but am still working on them.



Factors:


Objective: Type of objective for phase, location

Backfield Spawn: A permanent spawning location for both teams where they may refill and rearm between phases or during them. The backfield spawns stay the same throughout phases.

Standard Spawn: Spawning location specific to a phase.

Mobile Spawn: Offense gets mobile spawn point(s) later in the game. The point must be deployed at a location before it may be used. (So it's not exactly mobile but sort of.) They have a limit on # of uses and can be destroyed by the defenders. Moving a mobile spawn or having it destroyed counts as one use.

Weapons: Water weapons available to phase.

Between each phase, the game will stop to allow players to rearm and refill. During this time, all players must remain in their backfield spawns except for purposes related to conducting the game.





Game specs:

Defenders' Backfield: Various points around my house, (exact locations TBD)

Offenders' Backfield: Frank's house, backyard.


Phase 1:

Objective: Blast apart a square of toilet paper w/ water only. Two objectives are present, complete one in the time limit to win the phase. Objectives are located amongst the line of bushes, to be pinned to them.

Defenders' Standard Spawn: Amongst several points located close to the objective.

Offenders' Standard Spawn: None; Backfield only.

Offenders' Mobile Spawns: None.

Weapons: Light blasters (to be defined strictly), water balloons, bottles. No hoses will have nozzles available but any hose/faucet (within battlefield boundaries) may be used. They are generally for refill but low-range splash attacks are also permitted.


Phase 2:

Objective: Fill up one of two 2-liter bottles located around my house. One bottle is located on the wall by the chimney, and the other bottle is located on the opposite end of the house on the wall. Fill using bottles, blasters, etc.

Defenders' Standard Spawn: None; Backfield only.

Offenders' Standard Spawns: One point amongst the line of bushes, close to where the Defenders' Standard Spawns were located in Phase 1; another point located in the area of dense pine trees, close to a tall brick wall and to the church.

Offenders' Mobile Spawns: 1 Mobile Spawn permitted at a time, up to 3 may be used.

Weapons: All blasters permitted, as well as balloons/bottles. Defense may use one hose with a nozzle attached; the rest have no nozzles.


Phase 3:

Objective: Capture the flag; return flag to any spawn point, even to a mobile one if deployed

Defenders' Standard Spawn: None; Backfield only.

Offenders' Standard Spawns: Same as Phase 2.

Offenders' Mobile Spawns: 2 Mobile Spawns permitted at a time, up to 5 may be used.

Weapons: Everything is permitted. Defenders get two nozzles for both hoses, and two WATER BALLOON LAUNCHERS. The launchers may only be fired at 45° or higher when using more than 30 PSI, and are strictly restricted to 50 PSI.



Spawn rules: There are 2 kinds of spawns: Instant and Interval-Wait spawns. Instant spawns are just that; players may spawn as soon as they hit them. For Interval-Wait, the spawn point has a timer and players must wait until the timer hits a certain interval to spawn, i.e. if the interval is 30 seconds, players may spawn anytime the seconds counter is at :30 or :00.

The Interval-Wait spawn is standard and has been tested at a CTF event during the Flack Attack water war.

All backfield spawns are Instant. All other spawns are Interval-Wait.

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TacticalTyphoon
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Re: Invasion

Postby TacticalTyphoon » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:02 am

Hey, I have to disagree....

The Assault Rifle is a great gun in Halo! You've just got to burst fire it for effective range. I use the DMR more for its superior range, but the AR will always be my favourite.

Apart from that, I really like the idea of an Invasion game for water warfare. My only issue would be the changes at the end of each sub-phase (i.e. making sure everyone now has access to the bigger weapons)....

....and also the lack of Warthogs and Banshees, both with water weaponry. :goofy:

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HBWW
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Re: Invasion

Postby HBWW » Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:00 am

Burst firing the AR reduces the damage per second so low it's pretty much useless. The AR's a great lazy gun though, for those times you just don't feel like actually aiming at your target. =)

The primary issue with my current Invasion setup is the complicated spawning. I may have to come up with better ways to counterbalance the defense team's ridiculous advantages during phase 3.

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HBWW
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Re: Invasion

Postby HBWW » Sun May 15, 2011 8:44 pm

Well, I got Battlefield Bad Company 2 last week on sale from Steam for $6.80. Awesome game, and now I know just what gametype inspiration I was looking for earlier!

In BC2, it's called Rush and it's considerably different from Halo's Invasion. The battlefield scales differently upon completion of each phase, and the only objective you ever see is to arm and detonate a bomb on a target M-Comm Station (or blow up the building to the point where it collapses, if the target is inside one). Also, if there are two M-Comms in a phase, both must be cleared out before moving on. When moving on, the previous part of the battlefield effectively disappears if it is not going to be used. Instead, the assaulting force spawns at an area close to where the previous phase's objectives were. As always, 3 phases to complete in order to win. One important difference: assault is not limited by time, but by tickets. Tickets are a measure of how much of a team there is in the Battlefield series; when a player spawns, the team looses one ticket. When the number of tickets reaches zero, the corresponding team looses automatically in Rush. In Conquest (the Battlefield version, not my version), they are still allowed to capture an outpost and spawn, but if they are eliminated, they loose; the number of tickets will also tick downwards automatically (about one ticket per 3-4 seconds) if the opposing team owns most of the outposts. (This is called "ticket bleeding".) Defense gets unlimited tickets.

Now, what do I take away from this for water warfare? Not all that much actually, just want to tinker things around in my own game to make it more interesting. In BC2, infantry weapons are treated as they are in MW/MW2: what you have depends on how much you've played, whereas in Invasion of Halo Reach, weapon availability is unique to each game.

Requiring both objectives to be destroyed in a phase makes for longer, more interesting gameplay, and the way the game is setup progressively increases the challenge on the attackers. Limiting the attackers' number of spawns instead of time is also a creative way that encourages survival more. In Squad-Rush, teams are divided into squads, and you can spawn on a squad member instead of at the phase-specific spawn point.

Overall, I find Invasion to be more varied and interesting, but Rush was built well to fit BC2's specific style of gameplay. We are also still not seeing all that many FPS's that focus on dynamic, interactive environments and destructibility and it's good to add one to the list.

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Nitro123PG
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Re: Invasion

Postby Nitro123PG » Tue May 17, 2011 10:32 pm

Meh, I rip some Nerf War and Water War games from Halo Reach too. They're pretty fun and much better than any squirtfest. :)

I only use the AR in campaign, but I only use it in close range and I don't really burst fire since I'm usually so close. I never use it in multiplayer.

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HBWW
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Re: Invasion

Postby HBWW » Wed May 18, 2011 12:25 pm

Try enabling the Mythic and Tilt skulls, and the AR essentially becomes a Nerf gun. =p

I get about 75% of my games inspired from video games and 25% I make up or derive from community sources.

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Nitro123PG
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Re: Invasion

Postby Nitro123PG » Wed May 18, 2011 6:06 pm

I wish the AR would have 60 round clips from Halo Wars in Reach. That would make it a lot more useful, though it would be very annoying fro some noob to just unload into you as you actually try to aim and then die. Still, we don't the assualt rifle being a Halo version of the Raider, do we?

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HBWW
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Re: Invasion

Postby HBWW » Thu May 19, 2011 1:10 pm

The 60-round AR magazine originated from Halo (Combat Evolved), not Halo Wars. It became the SMG in Halo 2 and 3, and was dropped from Reach. You may have noticed the SMG in Halo 3 ODST has more range and accuracy than the assault rifle from the same game. Funny how that worked out but not all that surprising considering the fact that in Halo 1, the pistol performed like a battle rifle and the assault rifle performed like a machine pistol. Anyway, automatics have always been gimped in the Halo series and almost always take longer to make a kill with than other weapons.

Some corrections on Rush from BC2: I'm pretty sure at least some of the maps go to 4 or even 5 rounds. The game takes a very long time to complete, and most servers usually play the same map again with the teams swapped later so that all players get a chance to defend and attack. I can write up a variation of Invasion that works with this, requiring both objectives to be taken in each phase and limiting by number of lives as opposed to by time. Lives are difficult to limit if there are multiple spawn points though; need a good mechanism for counting them. Perhaps each spawn point can have its own limit. Only difference between what I would do vs. what's done in BC2 is that I'd still allow attacking players to continue after they run out of lives, but simply can't respawn.


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