How to Promote Water Warfare

Water warfare game types, ideas, rules, organization, etc.
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SSCBen
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Re: How to Promote Water Warfare

Postby SSCBen » Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:48 am

Homemade water guns are significantly more likely to interest than current stock water guns. Today's water guns are relatively unimpressive. I have had some people say to me "I didn't think water guns were cool until you showed me what they're really about." The general thought is that water guns are for kids, and current manufactured water guns are not likely to change anyone's mind. Today water gun forums are slower and I know that's because the water guns don't impress people. That is what I mean when I say best chance. Current manufactured water guns are not impressive because they ARE for kids. I can't make it any clearer than that. Homemade water guns are explicitly not for kids and thus are highly impressive to most people.

Perhaps I'm not correct to say that current water guns "defeat" the purpose of water wars because they're not as bad as EES, but they're not great either. I don't consider them particularly enjoyable, given the lack of power and some other quirks varying from gun to gun. I haven't bought a recent water gun except for an Arctic Blast, and I only bought that to modify it.

You can do what you want and given that the wars are fun enough, you might have some success, but compared against some sort of homemade or modified battle I doubt it would be as interesting or likely to attract people.

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Re: How to Promote Water Warfare

Postby isoaker » Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:43 pm

Somehow, I feel like I've had a similar sort of discussion with Ben in the past on this. :goofy: Of course, back then, I was undoubtedly less open to the idea of homemades, but time and hearing views from more people have opened my eyes to that aspect of the community. Altogether, I believe we can promote water warfare without needing to belittle any current aspect of it. Good homemade blasters are impressive. Good stock soakers are impressive. Most currently available stock soakers feel somewhat lacking compared to some of the predecessors, but they are still viable options for having a water war.

In the end, it's about promoting a fun activity! I've learned to understand and respect the joy those get out of modding and building water blasters. I should also hope those who mod and build can still understand and appreciate that many others can still have a lot of fun using not-as-high-performing equipment.

That said, I'm most definitely open to seeing the return of better performing water blasters to the commercial market, but I'm forever the optimist. :goofy: If showcasing homemades works out well at attracting more people, that'd be great! I'll be promoting water warfare the ways I know how at the same time.

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Re: How to Promote Water Warfare

Postby HBWW » Sat Mar 15, 2008 1:06 pm

Some modern stock soakers are actually useful as sidearms for all water warfare, but they do not completely fulfill the needs of most players except kids. However, my point is, they're not completely useless, the problem here is the lack of decent primaries for teens and older people to use. (Which is what caused water warfare to not be where it could be right now) The problem is not the smaller soakers themselves, as they would do a decent job fulfilling the role of smaller soakers if there were still powerful ones around.

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Re: How to Promote Water Warfare

Postby SSCBen » Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:39 am

Let me reiterate what I'm saying because I still don't think you get the point iSoaker. I'm not belittling anything. If you think me describing the situation in what essentially are objective terms is belittling, well, the situation isn't great. Those guns are fine for some wars if they're what works for you. All I have been saying is that current manufactured guns are unlikely to make new fans. If the guns in stores right now were making many fans, we probably wouldn't need to think of how to promote water warfare.

It doesn't matter whether or not these guns are fine for a water war. They do that job decently. It's whether or not they'll defeat the stereotypes of water guns, and they won't. Like it or not, today's manufactured water guns don't break any stereotypes. They in fact reinforce the thought that water guns are for kids because kids are usually pictured on the boxes.

What we need is an adult line of water guns, but there is none and there are no indications that one will ever exist. So the only option at the moment is homemade as far as I see it. There are a very limited number of second hand water guns and most of the ones that appear on eBay sadly end up in the hands of collectors instead of Joe Blow who owns only a Flash Flood. So again, the only option I see as 1) impressive to new people and 2) viable for a long time to come is homemade water guns. Sorry that you disagree. I will again suggest that you try building something to see if you like it. I haven't read of anyone building and then being disappointed.

I do not say this to divide or belittle people or because I hate smaller water guns. I say this because I love water guns and want to promote them most effectively. I do not see the current manufactured water guns making any new fans. If we want to make new fans, we have to break the stereotypes of water guns that the current manufactured ones promote.

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Re: How to Promote Water Warfare

Postby isoaker » Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:40 am

I'm all for encouraging those who want to also explore the idea of building, but the activities of building a water gun and having a water war are rather different. I wholly believe that water warfare can be promoted and made enjoyable to play even if one does not know how to make the equipment used, even with the current packaging or mentioned stereotypes. There are other ways to overcome the problems or stereotypes you mention above. IMO, homemade building will always and should always be around and can be a great way to entice others, but it is not the only means to inspire interest.

That said, if you feel you can bring about more fans through your means, go for it! Again, there is more than enough room to promote water warfare in the most effective ways each member believes.

I can imagine good water fights using nothing but homemade water blasters. I can also imagine good water fights using nothing but the current crop of stock soakers. Heck, I can easily see good water fights using a mix of both. I can only hope the membership shares this view as well. Come to think of it, what's wrong with promoting water warfare to kids, anyhow, as well? It's not like every non-adult presently enjoys water warfare, either.

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Re: How to Promote Water Warfare

Postby SSCBen » Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:10 pm

I did not say homemade water guns are the only way to promote water wars, rather, just the easiest and most effective method. The simple fact is that current manufactured water guns aren't inspiring many people if any, so we can't rely on them to promote ourselves. You're free to do what you want because I know you probably will never make a homemade or suggest one for whatever odd reason, but I can't see any efforts focusing primarily on current manufactured water guns being successful.

There are other ways to overcome the problems or stereotypes you mention above.


I would be interested in hearing some ideas on this. Not counting homemade water guns, older water guns (which are becoming rarer and more expensive), and some game types such as assassins (which are not like water wars) I can't think of any ways to overcome these stereotypes with current manufactured water guns.

Come to think of it, what's wrong with promoting water warfare to kids, anyhow, as well? It's not like every non-adult presently enjoys water warfare, either.


Children generally are immature and definitely a liability. That's what's wrong with promoting to them. We can't have people younger than teenagers coming to these events. They'll feel out of place, be serious liabilities, and could bring bad publicity to the sport.

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Re: How to Promote Water Warfare

Postby isoaker » Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:41 am

@Ben: "these events"? What events? This thread is about ways to promote water warfare in general, not just specific water warfare events. Besides, there should also be events for kids.

As for suggesting homemade building, if you still hold the opinion that I have never and will never suggest building one, so be it. I suppose I would need to somehow unsuggest and unshow some new members as well as my friends and colleagues the pages of SSC I had directed them to so that I can appropriately fit that opinion. :oo:

---------------------------------------
@All:
Despite this thread being partially side-tracked, I'd like to refocus it back to topic. There are a lot of great ideas mentioned or already being done by members already. Water warfare is an activity that can most definitely be enjoyed by individuals of all ages and I do believe we, as a group, can help spur on growth in the number of water warriors for all age ranges.

Members with ideas should take action and let us know how well it works out! Those looking for ideas should look at the various suggestions in this thread for inspiration and do what they feel they can do comfortably! Based on feedback, we can adjust out approaches accordingly depending on the groups we are presently attempting to enlighten in the ways of water warfare. This will not be some magical, change-world-opinion-in-a-day goal. However, together, each new person we can share the joys of soaking with is a definite positive step forward.

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Re: How to Promote Water Warfare

Postby mutuhaha » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:41 am

On reflection, taking into context just the local situation in Singapore, we need guns. Good commercial guns. I agree with Ben in the respect that homemade guns with much higher capabilities than the current stock guns will be a great help in generating interest. However, the number of homemade guns one can make here under the pressures of the education system is limited, and the weight academics and such can bring to bear here should not be underestimated. So firstly, the existing equipment-makers here find themselves constrained by time and can't. Secondly, most other people who see the guns think they're really cool, but don't have time to build their own or delve further into the online community. Thirdly, because of the same reason of time constraint seemingly on the part of everybody including me, it is extremely difficult to hold water warfare events at community centres.

The next best option would seem to be good commercially produced guns, since most people can afford mid-priced soakers, about S$30, though with higher interest, the threshold would rise indefinitely. But being able to afford is one thing and wanting to purchase is another thing, that's where promotion comes in. But with the deadlock the promotion drive is in as described earlier, it's thus harder to get people interested enough to buy water guns costing more than $10, which isn't a lot of budget. And the guns we can get at $30 aren't great either. We don't want flashing lights on the soaker, what we need is power and range and other capabilities like that. In my opinion, capabilities aren't merely a matter of looking cool and such, but also of gameplay. In say, paintball, which is more appealing but more expensive, ranges are high and so is power, which adds to adrenaline and thrill ingame and hence general interest. Water warfare doesn't have to be a carbon copy of airsoft, but well, if the best guns the general public can buy off shelves are squirters, then it'll probably be more difficult to follow up on interested people after a successful homemade demonstration for instance.

I'm not really expecting the standard of commercial guns to rise here, since from the suppliers' point-of-view there're plenty of problems less apparant to us consumers. Even if America gets better guns soon, it may take some time for them to import the good stuff here. Not to mention that I'm feeling the education system's pressure rather acutely, which again, I'm not expecting any changes in that, or for it to change because it'll be more convenient for my hobby; just an short, honest exposition on the bleak situation for water warfare here. Anyhow, we're being suffocated by quite a number of factors, the immovable ministry of education and the lack of good stock guns just some examples. Into the Junior College years we're already losing the momentum we had in the past, our last big thing being the Panzergruppen in the previous large-scale wargames (yeah we did actually field the tank along with some Panzergrenadiers), and I'm quite sure we're about to join the list of those lost and not returned.

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Re: How to Promote Water Warfare

Postby SSCBen » Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:58 am

@Ben: "these events"? What events? This thread is about ways to promote water warfare in general, not just specific water warfare events. Besides, there should also be events for kids.


You know what I was talking about. :goofy:

As for suggesting homemade building, if you still hold the opinion that I have never and will never suggest building one, so be it. I suppose I would need to somehow unsuggest and unshow some new members as well as my friends and colleagues the pages of SSC I had directed them to so that I can appropriately fit that opinion. :oo:


Sorry iSoaker. I did go over the top there.

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Re: How to Promote Water Warfare

Postby Croc » Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:18 pm

Just a thought, but why not have two kind of events? At different times, like in the afternoon for the kids, and night battles requiring more skill for the older people who have a better understanding of the guns? The weapon selection would have to be slightly segregated (You don't want kids running around with guns older than they are, unless they are disposable). Since the older people have more respect for weapons, they would be able to access a larger selection of weapons (just put the powerful ones on the top shelves :goofy:

That would probably promote water warfare, and show that soakers are not yet finished, and completely destroyed.


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