Organized Water Warfare (10 rules or less)

Water warfare game types, ideas, rules, organization, etc.
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isoaker
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Organized Water Warfare (10 rules or less)

Postby isoaker » Mon Feb 04, 2008 9:26 am

The following is copied from the original thread on the iSoaker.com Ikonboard.
=====================================
isoaker_com:
While I definitely like to have detailed explanations when needed, there are also times then too much detail can just be overwhelming and unmanageable for ease of use.

In our overall goal of trying to promote water warfare, while the soakfest is great, we're still more likely to get others interested by having a solid basis for forms of organized games that can be scored or judged in some way. To hold tournaments, need a way to figure out who won. However, large rule sets are unwieldy and intimidating.

Thus, I am looking for the membership's help in coming up with a basic rule set with hopefully no more than 10 defined rules. Rules should be as straightforward as possible while leaving little room for misinterpretation. If we can come up with a working set that has even less than 10 rules, but still covers all the basics, that'd be even better.

To simplify things from the start, let's begin by working on an up-to-10 rules for a basic two competing teams game (i.e. scoring or elimination, but not more complex like capture-the-flag, king-of-the-hill, etc).

If you cannot or do not wish to try to come up with a full 10-rule set, but still have ideas, feel free to also just suggest a few rules that you feel need to be addressed in some way or another. This is an open and evolving discussion; opinions and ideas are most welcome and desired!

Soak on!

mr.dude:
Organized soakfest:
1) No violence
2) If you completely soak someone (no dry spots left on their shirt) you get a point, and they're out (either for the rest of the game or until they have a dry spot, your choice)
3) Team with the most points at the end of the game wins (even if the winning team has been completely eliminated)
4) Someone help me out here...

isoaker_com:
1) along the lines of "No violence", water warfare should, IMO, remain a non-contact sport. Thus, no aggressive physical contact between players

For an organized soakfest, 100% soaked is, interestingly enough, actually hard to judge. >80% or having some sort of defined hit area might be a better option.

I figure there needs to be some rule about permitted water sources, time limits, and game boundaries, as well as something about not soaking or intimidating non-players/innocent bystanders.

mr.dude:
Is this an attempt at keeping the Creation of a Water Warfare League over on WWc alive? That was making some progress and it's a shame to see it die.

General rules (apply to all gametypes):
-No aggressive physical contact permitted. If this rule is broken, you are out of the game, and future games probably.
-Both sides must agree on boundaries and legal water sources. Going out of bounds has different penalties for differen game types, so I'll discuss that later. If you use an illegal water source, well f*** you :)
-No soaking bystanders or non players, because they'll probably beat you up. Different story if they ask you to shoot them.
-No cheating (obviously). Punishment is the same as physical aggression punishment.
-Points can only be scored if the shot hits the person's shirt.
-If someone is injured, halt the game immediately.

Oganized Soakfest:
1) If you soak someone to a predetermined amount (eg. 80% of their shirt is soaked), you get a point, and they're out (either for the rest of the game or until they have a dry spot, your choice).
2) Team with the most points at the end of the game wins (even if the winning team has been completely eliminated).
3) If you go out of bounds, your team loses a point.

One Hit Scores:
This is actually similar to organized soakfest.
1) If you shoot someone, they're out for a predetermined amount of time (there are two options here, either any hit counts or a certain sized hit is required). Your team gets a point.
2) The team with the most points after time is up wins.
3) If you go out of bounds, your team loses a point. No further penalty is applied.

One Hit Kills:
1) If a hit is scored (see One Hit Scores), the person shot is out of the game.
2) There is no time limit. The team that completely eliminates their opponents wins.
3) If you go out of bounds, you're out of the game for a predetermined period of time.

Other options

-In One Hit Kills or One Hit Scores, the following can be used to determine a hit:
-Any amount of water on the recipient's shirt.
-A fist sized splash of water on the recipient's shirt.
-A soaker tag or homemade tag does whatever it's supposed
to do when exposed to water.
-If using Ben's idea of grids on the shirt, if a certain number of
them is soaked.

-In One hit Scores or Organized soakfest, you can respawn if one of the following happens:
-The predetemined time period is up.
-You shoot an opponent. In this case, your team doesn't get
any points and that person isn't out, but you're back in the
game.
-A teammate tags you.

Feel free to add to it. I know I stole some people's ideas, so please don't take it personally, this is me brainstorming.

isoaker_com:
@mr. dude: This is along those lines, but in a way, aiming simpler. I'm hoping the League Creation Development continues, but time will tell. As for this thread, I'm hoping to come up with a really simplified set. The above rule set you posted looks great, clean, and all, but is still on the slightly long side. Think it can be shortened further?

mr.dude:
Maybe if the different game types were seperated it would be better?
If not, what should be removed?

:cool:
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Re: Organized Water Warfare (10 rules or less)

Postby HBWW » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:37 pm

Here, I've created a simple ruleset that'll accommodate for changes in game type.

1. Common sense - no physical contact, no cheating, can only attack players in the game, all items that are not water-resistant and/or must stay clean must be kept somewhere safe, property must be respected (such as soakers, vegetation), etc.

2. Players must stay in a generally designated area. (I'm not in for strictly defined boundaries)

3. A fist sized or larger stream or large pack of droplets sustained for half a second counts as a hit (to anywhere on a player, including head), all hits must be at least approximately 10 droplets and noticeable by the target. Splash damage from a water balloon doesn't count unless it splashes on enough droplets onto the target. (Yes, it's quite subjective, but it allows for more tactical opportunity, and IMO, not counting headshots is BS, especially when that's the only part of a target that's presented. This doesn't mean we should encourage headshots, it only means that it should not be invulnerable, which would only present more subjectivity based on how much of a stream splashed onto non-head areas)

4. Any players who are hit at least once are out. (except by intentional friendly fire or by refill-splash)

5. All eliminated players must leave all their soakers and equiptment where it is and leave the field, reporting to a designated "spawn point". (if this causes too much problems, the soaker-dropping can be omitted, but it would ensure that everyone gets the opportunity to try out different positions, soakers, etc.)

6. Refill sources must be agreed on by all players, as well as whether or not hoses can be used for suppression, etc. (some houses won't allow hose suppression in order to conserve water, which is more of an issue than how fair or not someone thinks it is)

7. Mobility enhancements of any kind (such as bikes) are prohibited unless the game allows them. (well, same would go with water balloon launchers, etc.)

8. Standard customizeable options:
-Points (whether players count their kills or not, required if infinite respawns)
-Respawn/Elimination, (if respawn) number of lives.
-Time limit
-Important map objects (refill stations, moveable cover, respawn/elimination points, place to meet when teams are not playing a game, etc.)
-Various game types (other than the standard) will add more variables and changeable rules

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Re: Organized Water Warfare (10 rules or less)

Postby isoaker » Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:48 am

@C-A_99: that looks pretty good! As you already noted, some may have issues with parts of rule #5 in that leaving equipment behind may not be a good option, particularly if playing in an area where non-players may find/take dropped soakers. Rule #4 could be easily modified to include scoring as oppose to only elimination. I wonder whether that can be merged with mr.dude's ruleset and cleaned up a bit in terms of wording to make a very clean, elegant end-product.

However, the ideas and suggestions above are great so far! If anyone feels like making an attempt at refining the above, please do so. I'll also give it a shot once I get a little more time.

:cool:
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Re: Organized Water Warfare (10 rules or less)

Postby HBWW » Wed Feb 06, 2008 5:54 pm

Yeah, I wasn't too specific on there and assumed later rules could take out previous rules. As from personal experience, tracking kills is... particularly difficult.

Well, at least a ton of rules could be crunched into the first one. =)

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Re: Organized Water Warfare (10 rules or less)

Postby DX » Wed Feb 06, 2008 7:28 pm

Looks good, but a few thoughts:

What exactly is the purpose of creating an extremely stripped down rule set of 10 or less? You can't really cover all of the basics in 10. In chasing simplicity, you will end up with less usability. Even in C-A_99's set, there are potential loopholes everywhere.

and IMO, not counting headshots is BS, especially when that's the only part of a target that's presented. This doesn't mean we should encourage headshots, it only means that it should not be invulnerable, which would only present more subjectivity based on how much of a stream splashed onto non-head areas)


Three questions:

- Would you voluntarily stand 5-10ft from the 400x+ nozzle of a piston/air water cannon and take a direct shot to the head?

- Would you voluntarily stand 5-10ft from the barrel of a pnuematic WBL at 100 PSI+ and take a direct shot to the head?

- Would you voluntarily stand 5-10ft from the nozzle of a Heavy K-modded gun and take a direct shot to the head?

Personally, I would answer "no" to all of the above. 11 year water warfare veteran, 4 year hardcore team commander, and I wouldn't do any of the 3. Head shots were not always banned in RWW. We banned them when we saw what happens when they are allowed. In the heat of battle, if you've got an issue with someone, you aim for the head and you shoot with malicious intent. Basic human nature. With our ban, we made aim virtually automatic at the chest/back, which neutralized any personal issues that came up. And even if head shooting isn't done with malice, it still can be borderline dangerous. My "weak" AP water cannon still fires with power - shoulder mount it and the recoil will take you straight to the ground. We also had the angled shot rule for WBLs for a good reason. You've seen the video where Mike gets shot in the neck from 50ft out at 40 PSI. Put him 25ft away, crank the PSI to 120, and aim for the head...won't be laughing in pain, I promise. Sorry if I am very gun-ho against head shots, but I've seen things that I know you haven't.

Back to other things...

The spawning clause is a bit too specific. There's a whole array of spawning options: Single point, multiple points, communal point[s], zones, territories, friendly lines, on-the-spot, and then there's spawn time differences, special options like tagging, control of the area, delaying the timer, etc. Nothing personal, just showing how varied this can be. Also, gun-dropping probably isn't a great way for getting people to try new roles and guns. It doesn't encourage, it forces. Basically rules force and knowledge/creativity encourages. It's always better to leave something to the invisible hand of the game if a rule isn't necessary. For example, there's position-switching, multiple positions, no positions, and other options that can be added into team structure. There's also tactics, especially in the trick, ghost, and guerilla sets, that do this [such as False Primary Guns, False Gun Switcheroo, False Commander, False Roles, Fluid Roles, Instant Exchange, etc.].

A few other things that are currently undefined:

- Who can pause the game, especially by time-out, when, why, and how.

- Enforcing the boundaries [there are also problems when boundaries are too loosely defined. Too strict is bad, but too loose is worse, this is an issue mainly when a battle breaks out very close to an OB area]

- Mercy clauses [can you shoot someone immediately after they respawn, what happens after a side is wiped out, what kind of taunting is acceptable, can you shoot someone immediately after time is resumed, etc.]

- Shields [what is allowable if anything]

- Fortifications [what can or can't be used to fortify an area, can material be brought in, can material be cached, are caches allowed, what responsibility over caches exists?]

- Moderating [refs, honor code, joint execs, something else? What powers are granted?]
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers

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Re: Organized Water Warfare (10 rules or less)

Postby isoaker » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:14 am

What exactly is the purpose of creating an extremely stripped down rule set of 10 or less? You can't really cover all of the basics in 10. In chasing simplicity, you will end up with less usability.


While *all* the basics may not be accounted for with just 10 rules or less, you can still create a good framework from which people can build upon to suit their needs. By having only 10 rules or less, you don't intimidate newer players or bog them down with certain details that they may not be interested in or potentially even have better ideas for in their local settings. I'm all for having a full, detailed rule set as well, particularly for any official Water Warfare League. Loopholes in a short set are definitely going to be present, but that is where one hopes participants can use common sense to fill the gaps. However, as few even attempt holding any form of organized water war in the first place, I believe there's a need to offer some simpler solutions as well to get them interested. Such a rule set may not be for everyone, but it's an option for those interested.

As for the other points, some aspects could likely be addressed in a short rule set while some specifics would simply be left out for the game organizers to deal with as is needed. If a problematic situation never arises, there's no need for the rule; if it does, that group will need to come up with a working solution for their problem.

Something about either refereeing or at least pausing/stopping games should be added to the simplified rule set. Something along the lines of "any participant can stop the game in the event of accident or injury: if a problem is minor, affected players can decide whether to continue to play or not with or without an injured player; if a problem is larger, game play should be halted until the problem is resolved. Use common sense to determine the best course of action."

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Re: Organized Water Warfare (10 rules or less)

Postby HBWW » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:10 pm

- Would you voluntarily stand 5-10ft from the 400x+ nozzle of a piston/air water cannon and take a direct shot to the head?

- Would you voluntarily stand 5-10ft from the barrel of a pnuematic WBL at 100 PSI+ and take a direct shot to the head?

- Would you voluntarily stand 5-10ft from the nozzle of a Heavy K-modded gun and take a direct shot to the head?

Personally, I would answer "no" to all of the above. 11 year water warfare veteran, 4 year hardcore team commander, and I wouldn't do any of the 3. Head shots were not always banned in RWW. We banned them when we saw what happens when they are allowed. In the heat of battle, if you've got an issue with someone, you aim for the head and you shoot with malicious intent. Basic human nature. With our ban, we made aim virtually automatic at the chest/back, which neutralized any personal issues that came up. And even if head shooting isn't done with malice, it still can be borderline dangerous. My "weak" AP water cannon still fires with power - shoulder mount it and the recoil will take you straight to the ground. We also had the angled shot rule for WBLs for a good reason. You've seen the video where Mike gets shot in the neck from 50ft out at 40 PSI. Put him 25ft away, crank the PSI to 120, and aim for the head...won't be laughing in pain, I promise. Sorry if I am very gun-ho against head shots, but I've seen things that I know you haven't.


That's where the common sense comes into place, one shouldn't even be using those types of weapons at those ranges, which would be unacceptable regardless of where they're aimed. I listed headshots like that to prevent subjectivity over who got shot where or where someone thinks they felt the shot, etc. (Though I left out any mention of advanced weapons specifically for keeping the ruleset simpler, we're not using this to define mininum WBL ranges and/or angles.) Personally, it's easier to go for a body-shot at close range, and at medium and longer ranges, the stream is all droplets, and still only able to be aimed in the general direction of the target without precision. Another possibility of the rule is to just avoid headshots instead of completely not counting them, but that gets shaky too. (Thing is, if you're able to follow rules with kills in the middle of a game, why not rules about headshots?) Overall, it should probably be changed to a group-specific customizeable rule, since some teams are very aggressive and/or using advanced weaponry, and others are just having small XP firefights.

Anyways, as said, the idea here (at least, with my ruleset) was to create a simple "standardized", relatively adaptable set instead of fully defining what a game is and try to cram every possible situation into 10 rules. For other issues, they're up to the team but personally, I'd lean towards being more allowing with them, such as shields, which pose several disadvantages to a user. Fortifications would all be acceptable as long as they don't infringe on private property and/or cause environmental disturbances. For spawn campers, the spawner would probably have a short (such as 5 seconds) invulnerability period to move out, which is counted out loud. Everything else, including game pauses, not just for injury, etc. but also for issues such as weather, would be decided by the leader. No one should be forced to stay in the game if he/she has a reason to leave. (Though signaling this could be troublesome.)

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Re: Organized Water Warfare (10 rules or less)

Postby isoaker » Sun Feb 24, 2008 12:45 pm

Time to revisit this topic. I like a lot of the rules noted above and think it should be possible to come down to a decent consensus on 10 or less basic rules that would cover the general set-up of an organized water fight. Having a "Use common sense" to cover a lot of the more-difficult-to-explain-but-needed rules makes sense and covers a lot of problem areas with a simple statement, leaving room for water-warfare-specific rules.

What I'd like to do is take stock of all the rules noted above, merge similar rules together, then refine the resulting list down with membership input. If there's one area of water warfare that could use a boost, it's a push towards having organized water wars more common and easier to organize.

:cool:
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Re: Organized Water Warfare (10 rules or less)

Postby isoaker » Wed Feb 27, 2008 2:26 pm

Updated Rules Listing based on the above:

Contributors (alphabetical): C-A_99, DX, iSoaker_com, mr.dude

1. Organizers - Game organizers are responsible for overseeing the game, making decisions about game-specific rules, and the ones to turn to in the event of a problem. While any player can suspend the game in the event of accident or injury, the game organizers will decide whether the game can continue once a problem is dealt with or whether a game would require rescheduling.

For small battles, the Captains of each participating team would be designated as a game organizer. For larger battles or non-team games, non-participants or more experienced players can also be designated as an objective game observer. It is best to have at least two (2) designated game organizers that the group should respect.

2. Use Common Sense - all players are expected to show respect towards others. This also includes no aggressive/abusive physical contact, no cheating, must only soak other players in the game, all items that are not water-resistant and/or must stay clean must be kept somewhere safe, property must be respected (such as soakers, vegetation, personal property), avoid head and/or face shots, no-point blank (<10') head shots with streams and never with water balloons, etc. If uncertain about something, consult with a game organizer.

3. The Battle Ground - Players must stay in a generally designated area. Battlegrounds and off-limit areas must be declared and/or clearly identified before the game. Avoid choose battle grounds with known dangerous areas (i.e. cliffs, traffic, dangerous non-participants, sink holes, etc.)

4. Refill sources and “Spawning Points” - these area must declared before the start of the game. Other details such as whether or not hoses can be used for suppression, etc. depend on the game organizers (some do not allow hose suppression in order to conserve water which can be more an issue than how fair or not some players think it is).

5. Hit-count/Tagging/Soaking - different recommended scoring/tagging methods:

a) A fist sized or larger stream or large pack of droplets sustained for half a second counts as a hit (anywhere on a player, including the head). All hits must be noticeable by or on the target (i.e. splash damage from a water balloon does not count unless enough droplets splash onto a target).

(Of course, this is quite subjective, but it allows for more tactical opportunity; not counting headshots is too restrictive for an organized water war, especially if that is the only part of a target that's presented. This does not mean we should encourage headshots, it only means that it should not be invulnerable. If head-shots are to be prohibited, this should be stated by the game organizers before the start of the game)

b) When a SoakerTag / homemade tag is blasted off and/or changes colour counts as a hit

c) When enough boxes/area on a shirt with a grid on it have been soaked with water, then that player has been soaked

6. Scoring / Being Tagged - Any players who are hit by enough water (See Rule #4) are out/tagged (even by intentional friendly fire, but not by refilling splashes); eliminated players must empty their soaker and report to a designated "spawn point" or waiting area depending on the game being played. The player who soaked the other player gains one point and/or the player soaked loses a life.

7. Non-water blaster equipment - these must be approved for possession/use before the game. These include, but are not limited to, repair tools, water balloon launchers, bikes / larger vehicles, etc. Consult with the game organizers before the start of the game. Prohibited equipment should be stored somewhere safe for the duration of the game.

8. Punishments / Penalties - Optimally, the punishment should fit the rule broken. Game organizers are responsible for outlining what should and should not occur during a game and make quick decisions in the event that an unexpected situation arises. Here are some examples/suggestions for appropriate punishments:

- Players who stray significantly out-of-bounds or into definite restricted areas should empty their soaker and proceed to the nearest refilling/spawning point. As well, one point is subtracted from that player’s or team’s total score.

- Players who use unacceptable water sources will be banned for the remainder of the game. Any points earned by that player will be lost.

- Players who refuse to comply gracefully to penalties should not be invited to future events. Water warfare is supposed to be fun. Players who only know how to have fun by breaking set rules and harassing others do not deserve to remain as players. Game organizers should stop a game if any player’s actions are getting out of hand and gather the remaining players together to convince the problematic player(s) to abide by the rules or leave.

9. Other common customizable options:
- Points (whether players count their kills or not, required if infinite respawns)
- Respawn/Elimination, (if respawn) number of lives.
- Time limit (how long until the game ends and points/lives are tallied)
- Map of important locations (refill stations, moveable cover, respawn/elimination points, place to meet when teams are not playing a game, etc.)
- Various game types (other than the standard) will add more variables and changeable rules

---------------------------------------
Comments on the above or suggestions on how to improve this list would be most welcome. If you think there are ways to simplify this further, please post your suggestions! I'm rather liking how this is coming together.

:cool:
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