Standardizing Hits

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Re: Standardizing Hits

Postby scottthewaterwarrior » Thu Jun 09, 2016 2:54 pm

Though it would disrupt the flow of game play some, I do like Duxberian's system of pausing the game when there is a hit dispute. Possibly it could apply only to the players in the despite, where after it is settled they must go away from action before rejoining the game.

As for double kills, so long as it is very close (the other player pulls the trigger before the shot reaches them), then it counts. Given that it usually takes a half second or so for a shot to reach its intended target, the person hit first can usually tell whether or not they pulled the trigger before they were hit. This does require that people are honest, but with our current group, I haven't seen anyone intentionally try and BS other on hits. With that rule set, the only argument about double kills is if one of them actually missed.

We definitely do need to make sure that we explain hits better to newcomers though, as I am starting to remember some of them calling droplets from CPS guns a hit. Even if we do not make hit rules the same standard for all wars, explaining the hit rules used at each specific war before the days battling starts would be a great improvement. Next Soakemore I think I will print out short lists of bullet points explaining hit/spawn rules to hand out.
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Re: Standardizing Hits

Postby SEAL » Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:34 pm

I still stand by my proposal because it's the simplest and least likely to cause disputes. I guess I'd be open to a torso-only system too, since that's where the majority of hits land anyway, but I do want to get rid of the whole "greater part of a stream" nonsense.

I already kind of stop when there's a dispute, as I prefer my kills to be clean and don't want to shoot someone while they're not really playing. That's one reason I dislike it so much. Just at this last Soakemore I was sneaking up behind someone, then they stopped playing to argue with one of my teammates about a hit. Ruined my ambush. Maybe I should just start attacking people while they're arguing, just to discourage disputes from popping up. People won't want to let down their guard just to get into an argument. Such issues can just be resolved at the end of the game instead. If it's a case of someone straight-up cheating, then we can make them sit out or go home or something.

I agree with DX and HBWW on clothing. I do not want to bash through thorn bushes in a T-shirt, haha. I've used a sleeveless vest before, but that's for hot weather and more tame battlegrounds.

Duxburian wrote:Another thing I'd recommend is that we have only 2 sets of respawn times. Maybe 30 sec for the "short" respawn and 1 min for the "long". So, if you declare that the next round is long OHS with short respawns, or VIP with long respawns, everyone knows what that means. KISS would help us a lot.


True, but we'd still have to explain to newbies what "short" and "long" are. Some games should have spawn times longer than a minute too.

Scott wrote:I must say though, I have experience far fewer hit disputes in recent wars then in the past. Last major one I remember was at Pandemonium, and that was more a dispute of who hit who first because it was dark and we couldn't see very well. Maybe they just aren't happening to me as much, but I do remember a few double kills getting resolved without argument at Soakemore this year, and I don't remember any major arguments breaking out during games.


I don't remember many double kill disputes at Soakemore, but I do remember someone complaining that so-and-so wasn't calling hits, and based on what I've heard from others, that was far from the only complaint. Arguments of who hit who first are more of a thing of the past ever since we introduced the idea of a double kill. At least for me.

And yes, we definitely need to make sure the new players know the rules. That was one of the reasons I started this topic; the feel-based method I'm suggesting is the easiest to explain. "If you feel water from a gun hit you, you're out." As Scott mentioned, a lot of newbies play this way already. It's the most logical.
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Re: Standardizing Hits

Postby marauder » Thu Jun 09, 2016 5:49 pm

SEAL wrote:the feel-based method I'm suggesting is the easiest to explain. "If you feel water from a gun hit you, you're out." As Scott mentioned, a lot of newbies play this way already. It's the most logical.


I'm considering using this method for MOAB. I'm also considering using poker chips as a way of keeping track of hits. When rounds last for over an hour and or you have more than 4 people per team you really need some physical way of keeping score. You give someone a poker chip when they hit you, and at the end of the game each team counts how many poker chips they have collected from the other team. Nothing will be perfect, you won't always be able to stop to grab a poker chip, but most of the time you will be able to, and it's much much faster than writing it down, and much more accurate than trying to remember who hit who. It also takes the ego out of it, because no one is arguing with each other after the game about how many times they were hit and no ones names are listed, you just physically count the poker chips.
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Re: Standardizing Hits

Postby scottthewaterwarrior » Thu Jun 09, 2016 9:33 pm

Still don't really like the "if you feel wet then you are out," it's as Rob pointed out, if I get a few droplets from a 2000 on me, calling it a hit feels rather silly. I'll go with what ever system we are using at a particular war though. Even if I don't like a system, the most important thing is for everyone to be using the same one. Still want to try using the "majority of the stream" system again next Soakemore, it doesn't seam complicated from in my view, I think I just did a poor job explaining what that meant and making sure everyone knew we were using it. If SEALs system ends up working really well at what ever the next war is though, then I probably wont even bother testing my method again.

As for people not calling hits, this really needs to be talked about after the round that it happens. I haven't had anyone truly BS hits to me since Hydropocalypse, any recent ones were just misunderstandings. If someone is BSing, I agree they should be kicked from the game, the problem is that it is usually a matter of one persons word against another, and even with something like a one drop rule, how do you prove those drops are from your gun?

marauder wrote:...I'm also considering using poker chips as a way of keeping track of hits...

That is a genus idea! Not sure why the person would need to give them a poker chip though, I'd say just start with a bunch in your right pocket, and when you get hit, switch one to your left. Even if this doesn't become standard, I might still do it myself, as I am pretty bad at remembering hits.

Does make me think of an interesting game idea using the "giving" method though, multi flag CTF were the flags are worn as armbands by the players. If your hit, you must give a band to the player that hit you. Could be quite interesting if it was also multi team!
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Re: Standardizing Hits

Postby SEAL » Fri Jun 10, 2016 5:50 pm

Still, "majority of the stream" can mean different things to different people. However at this point I think I've put forth all my arguments, and the only thing left is for war hosts to decide on what method to use.

In order for someone to get thrown out (which hopefully won't be an issue), there would probably have to be multiple complaints and witnesses. We'd probably give the offender a warning first, and if they're still causing trouble, they get the boot.

I think I'd rather give everyone a flash card and a pen, probably in a plastic bag. When you get hit, write a tally mark on the card. This can be done while respawning, because in long games where this becomes necessary, spawn times are usually on the longer side. I don't really want to run around with my pockets full of poker chips, haha.
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Re: Standardizing Hits

Postby marauder » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:20 am

SEAL wrote:I think I'd rather give everyone a flash card and a pen, probably in a plastic bag. When you get hit, write a tally mark on the card.


I would be open to this. It could be a waterproof board with a marker or something, or everyone could get a little write in the rain notebook. It could be set up like a table and all you have to do is make a check next to someone's name when they hit you.
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