Continue League Team Rivalry?

Development of the WaterWar.net League.
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SEAL
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Continue League Team Rivalry?

Postby SEAL » Fri May 31, 2013 11:32 am

There was talk about the whole rival team thing going down the tubes. I figured that I should open up a thread for discussion on this, since I will be hosting the next war and I want to know if I should have rivalry rounds or not.

So what should we do? Obviously the main problem with this system is that it can be hard for a team to get enough people to come to wars. It's the main reason why I was a little hesitant about this at first. I mean, I like having permanent teams (and I've technically had one since like '07), but it doesn't seem to be working all that well with our tiny-ass community. Should we just chuck it for now? Maybe if we ever grow to the size of the Nerf community we can start it up again (though who knows where I'll be by then).

I'm willing to continue it, but then again my team has never really been starved of players. What do ya'll on the SS Liberation Front think? It's kind of ironic; I always figured that my team would be the one without enough players.
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Re: Continue League Team Rivalry?

Postby HBWW » Fri May 31, 2013 4:43 pm

So far, it's only happened once as far as I'm aware. However, it looks like we'll have the same deal at Downpour: outnumbered SSLF attendance. (i.e. Everyone vs. DX.)

Perhaps next summer it'll get better as I'll be able to attend more wars, supposedly.

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Re: Continue League Team Rivalry?

Postby marauder » Fri May 31, 2013 7:33 pm

Yeah, we definitely have an attendance issue; but that doesn't mean we have to dissolve the rivalry. Every war doesn't have to be a rivalry war. Remember, we are friends first, rivals second. That means we can have plenty of fun doing other things and then come back to the rivalry whenever it works out.

Having rival teams isn't about being fair. I was the first to say that, but it is about having fun. The rivalry rounds at MOAB were amazing, especially the first one. The second day of Frozen Fury would have been much more fun if we had just switched teams up. I don't say that because we were outmatched but because having little kids changes everything. That's the first thing we should consider when evaluating whether or not we want to have rivalry rounds. Will this be as fun as it can be? I still want to have an all night, or at least several hour long night battle with raids at 2 different camp sites. That would be amazing.

If the timing doesn't work out at Downpour, that's ok, we will do it some other time. The most important thing is that we're having as much fun as we can.
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SEAL wrote:If you ain't bloody and muddy by the end of the day, you went to a Nerf war.

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Re: Continue League Team Rivalry?

Postby SEAL » Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:10 am

So we basically just do it whenever both teams have enough players? I guess that sounds plausible. Actually, when we first came up with the idea, I thought that we would just have a few rivalry rounds per war, all of which would be long, hardcore, anything-goes rounds. I didn't think that we'd be doing it for every type of game that we typically play. Either that, or a rivalry war, where the entire event is just one long OHS round. Ever since I found this one epic location, I've been wanting to host a war like that, but I decided to wait until we have at least 20 (10vs10) players who reliably show up to community wars. Unfortunately I think we're a long way off from that, but I'm thinking of maybe doing one with less people at a smaller location like Onteora Lake or something. Still, we'd probably need at least 5 or 6 serious players per team.

Whoops, forgive me for going off on a tangent. But yeah, I guess we can just not do rivalry rounds until each team has enough players. I think we should also say that one team cannot have too high a number advantage over the other. We could say that the ratio of players on each team cannot be greater than 2:1. As far as skill imbalances go, I don't think that's as big a deal. When has a baseball or football game ever been called because one team isn't as good as the other? They'll get called if one team cannot scrape up enough players, but not if the skill level differs between the teams. I admit that I have seen some pretty brutal beatdowns when the teams' skill level is imbalanced (my brothers have played in Little League games where the scores are like 20 to zip), but this is water warfare. It's different than other sports in a way that even the most cunning veteran can be defeated by some kid in swim trunks who's just there because his friend dragged him into it. And as I said earlier, we could limit rivalry rounds to maybe only once or twice a war; they would be the hardcore rounds that everyone prepares months ahead of time for, while the rest of the war is just meant to be as fun as possible. I think this idea is worth considering.

Now, I think it's time to change around the Downpour schedule a bit... Heck, maybe I'll even redo the whole thing.
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Re: Continue League Team Rivalry?

Postby marauder » Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:12 am

Well I mostly agree with you, but I'd much rather fight a war where it was just DX and myself vs you, your brothers, Scott, and a friend, than DX, several 10 year olds, and myself versus you, your brothers, and Scott. It's just a completely different dynamic. You have to account for people's safety, make sure people don't get lost, etc.
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Re: Continue League Team Rivalry?

Postby HBWW » Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:47 pm

SEAL wrote:It's different than other sports in a way that even the most cunning veteran can be defeated by some kid in swim trunks who's just there because his friend dragged him into it.


I'm still trying to get a grip on this: On how 7 years of doing this thing can mean absolutely nothing when playing against someone who doesn't even give two shits about water warfare. (Other than having a few CPS cannons as a kid that got thrown away when they stopped using them.) It may keep things edgy and unpredictable in water wars, but it's also rather disheartening.

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Re: Continue League Team Rivalry?

Postby SEAL » Sat Jun 01, 2013 4:01 pm

marauder: I definitely see your point, but the problem can be solved by simply not inviting anyone under the age of 12. I think it's really cool that your nephews are so into it, but for the reasons that you gave, maybe we should wait until they're a little older before we bring them to full-fledged, hardcore rivalry rounds. Same goes for anyone else who's under 12.

CA99: Well it doesn't take a whole lot of skill to shoot a stream of water at someone, which is why I'm completely against target-shooting as a training exercise for water warfare. It's a waste of time. The real skills are dodging, being tactically smart, making quick decisions, etc. Once you get to a certain level, it's simply the more organized team that takes the field. Of course, that's not 100% certain either, as this is water warfare, and unpredictable things can happen. But remember, water warfare is not all about making hits.
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Re: Continue League Team Rivalry?

Postby marauder » Sat Jun 01, 2013 5:22 pm

I would totally agree with you except that as long as I stay in Mississippi my nephews are the easiest way for me to get to a community war. The nearest major airport is 2 and a half hours away if I don't want to pay $800 per ticket, so we have to drive and either get dropped off or park the car and pay for parking. So trips need to have other things mixed in (read: need to include visiting family.) I'm going to see if I can transfer to Charlotte this summer, but moving and getting out of a lease is rather expensive. If I have to stay here until 2015 I'll probably just be able to join in when I can come visit family.

With that being said, it may be best to have more relaxed style wars when we are there and have hardcore rounds on the days before and after. I may be able to get away with coming to one other day or part of it if it's in CT.
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SEAL wrote:If you ain't bloody and muddy by the end of the day, you went to a Nerf war.

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Re: Continue League Team Rivalry?

Postby SEAL » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:08 am

marauder wrote:With that being said, it may be best to have more relaxed style wars when we are there and have hardcore rounds on the days before and after. I may be able to get away with coming to one other day or part of it if it's in CT.


That sounds like a good idea. I guess we'll just save rivalry rounds for when each side has enough serious members.
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