Changes for the 2013 Season

Development of the WaterWar.net League.
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Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby marauder » Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:46 am

Alright everyone, it's that time of year again. The 2012 season is over, it's the off season, time to reflect on a great season and recommend changes you'd like to see happen in 2013.
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby GJIV » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:27 am

I would like to have a new, CPS Soaker, somehow useable(when I look at the HydroCanon I can only shake my head, a Soaker, just useable after heavy modifications...)

Other than this I would like to get a CPS 2000 Mk1 in its box :D Quite sure this will not happen ;)

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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby isoaker » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:39 am

GJIV wrote:I would like to have a new, CPS Soaker, somehow useable(when I look at the HydroCanon I can only shake my head, a Soaker, just useable after heavy modifications...)

Other than this I would like to get a CPS 2000 Mk1 in its box :D Quite sure this will not happen ;)

Heh... while I can only agree, marauder was referring to the WWn League, not stock water blasters. :goofy:

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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby SEAL » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:39 am

GJIV, this thread is actually for planning the WWn League, not what blasters you want to see this year (though on that topic, iSoaker did say that 2013 would be a year to look forward to). :goofy: Edit: iSoaker beat me to it.

As for the League. I don't know, do you guys think we should do it again? There really wasn't much activity this year. Most of the submissions were community war stories (and some by the Oncoming Storm). Physically, this has probably been the best season yet, but as far as the League goes, activity was definitely down from 2011. It really died near the end of the season. Personally, I don't think I would continue this for next year unless it becomes more active. I don't know, maybe we should set up a poll to see who's in favor of continuing the WWn League.
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby isoaker » Thu Jan 03, 2013 10:55 am

SEAL wrote:Personally, I don't think I would continue this for next year unless it becomes more active. I don't know, maybe we should set up a poll to see who's in favor of continuing the WWn League.

Thing is, if it is not continued, it cannot become more active. :goofy:

Is there a way to help ensure more activity?

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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby SEAL » Thu Jan 03, 2013 12:12 pm

Whoops, that wasn't what I meant. How about we do it once more for this season, and if activity stays the same or reduces even more, we could just not do it for 2014.

As far as activity goes, I believe DX and M4 have a bunch of plans. Not sure how much I'll be able to help, but I will do as much as I can.
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby marauder » Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:22 pm

We should adjust our expectations and adjust the league based off that. We made the online portion of the league very intense last year. Reviewing a submission required 3 moderators. At the beginning of the year we gave out points for modifications and repairs, but by the end of the year we stopped doing this. We had a long set of rules for points based off of size of the report, grammar, content, etc. Sometimes this discouraged people from posting in the submissions forum because what they had to say was less a war story than it was just some comments on what happened.

I think all of this reflects the big difference between what sounds good in theory and what is actual practical. It is great to encourage rich content, eg pictures, enthralling narrative, etc. but ultimately it's more important to just talk watergun fights. I envision the league submissions as the "What happened" forum and the games and events section as the "what could happen" section. This differentiation should be made known. Announce your events in the games and events forum. Plan them there. Once the event has taken place lock the planning topic and place a link in the thread to the new topic you create in the battle reports forum. War stories are a more specific type of battle report. Battle reports are more inclusive as I see it. Use the forum to talk about what happened, what you liked, what you didn't like, share photos, share movies, and give your war story. Anyone who attended the event can start the battle report topic. Anyone who is verified as being present gets credit. Note, the emphasis here is on the actual event and less on a particular submission.

I understand that you all may be concerned that this may discourage people away from taking the time to increase the quality of their write ups. Unfortunately I did not see where the intensive system (points) had any effect on the quality of submissions. Some people are good writers, some people are still learning. Awarding points for grammar, etc. does not change this fact. I would like to maintain the league but nix the points system. Instead, track the number of events attended and the average number of participants for those events for each person. Do this on the wiki using a table, with columns for #of battles attended, average # of participants, largest battle, #of community wars attended, things like that.

I want to keep the end of season awards but change how we award them. SEAL and the Oncoming Storm were very competitive going for the grand prize. Both battled a lot this year and both gave us a lot of write ups but SEAL ended up winning a CPS 2500 and a Colossus where as the Oncoming Storm didn't get a thing just due to the way our system worked. SEAL definitely earned his prizes, hosting downpour, submitting over 50 photos, submitting several videos. Those are very valuable contributions. However, the Oncoming Storm fought more than anyone else this year and ended the season empty handed. That shouldn't be. In fact, he fought several times late in the fall but did not post submissions due to the fact that he knew SEAL was going to win grand prize due to points awarded for community wars/photos/etc. So in this case our system worked against us, it prevented content from being posted. I would like to see awards given out for greatest participation and for a photo contest. Get the whole community involved in the photo contest. The photos don't have to be live action, they can be staged. It will be fun. We can come up with other categories to award prizes in. With a community of our nature we need to be more flexible.

Lastly I encourage all moderators and admins to look upon yourselves as leaders. We have come a long way over the past 12... 14 years for some of you. Let's use our experience to encourage new and or younger members. When you read a battle report that is confusing or difficult to read don't just ignore the submission. Take the time to be analytical. Ask questions that will help clarify what happened. Ask what were good things about the fight. Ask what were bad things about the fight. Encourage participation above all.
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby isoaker » Thu Jan 03, 2013 3:03 pm

I like the idea of nixing the current point system and revising it instead to track battles, numbers of participants, etc. Perhaps a simpler "Yay or nay" judgement could be passed on each submission so that it ensures an acceptable amount of info was provided to make the report meaningful without required an exhaustive description or narrative. Members would be encouraged to provide more details (perhaps a limited amount of bonus points?), but not have long descriptions as a requirement.

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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby marauder » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:34 pm

I picked up a set of 2 NIB Crickets at Wal Mart today for $9. I figure these will make a good prize for something.
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby Fishfan » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:02 pm

For prizes, hmm, let me think. A CPS 2000! :P
But seriously, maybe a Gorgon, or a Hydra Pak AP if they come out. Or some other original Water warriors.
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby SEAL » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:35 am

Meant to post here earlier.

I agree that the points system is kind of flawed, and I also think that we should just get rid of it. M4's ideas sound pretty good to me. I like the idea of awarding prizes at the end of the season for best photo, highest number of battles, best combat performance, etc. For highest number of battles, people could just pretend that they had a battle even when they didn't. For this reason I suggest that photo proof should be necessary, just like iSoaker did in 2011. The photo(s) don't have to be high-quality or anything, just as long as they prove that you actually did have a battle and didn't just type something up in your spare time.

So yes, I say we get rid of the points system, and switch to more of a contest-type thing where people submit stuff in the hopes of receiving a prize at the end of the season. It would make it more like a "League" in my opinion, even though I think a "League" should be more like MLB or NFL where there are many teams competing for the top spot. Unfortunately we're a long way away from that.

As for prizes, a CPS 2000 would be cool (and would force me to bust my ass to get it), but it's probably better to stick with newer guns, specifically of the Water Warriors brand (though if Hasbro wants to sponsor the League again, they can, but I will still opt out of recieving them). If the 2013 line is as good as iSoaker hinted last year, they would be perfect prizes. The prizes from last year that didn't go to anybody can be reused for this year. I wouldn't really want a Hydra Pak though. Then again, unless one of the prizes is a 2000 or an SS 300, I probably won't seriously compete.
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby Fishfan » Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:45 pm

I'm thinking of starting a youtube channel and a website for water warfare, as I'm finally getting better water guns. Right now all I know how to make a website is with webs.com. Is there better options (that are free) that don't have coding involved?
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby marauder » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:39 pm

You should try wordpress.com That's a great option. Websites don't have to be complex, all that matters is that you give your own unique opinion.

SEAL I think you should still compete for the glory and honor of it. Bragging rights. If you already have a gun or if you think someone else would benefit more you can opt to pass on the prize. I am going to try hard this year.
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby Fishfan » Tue Jan 08, 2013 1:49 pm

I'm not sure, Wordpress seems a little difficult. I might just stick with webs.com.
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby SEAL » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:44 pm

M4: I'm still going to compete, but I'm just not going to try as hard as I did last year (unless a 2000 or 300 is involved), because my armory has expanded much since then when I only had 2 working CPS blasters. I'll just submit stuff if I have it, and if I get a prize, then great (if it's something I don't want, I'll pass it on to someone else).
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby marauder » Tue Jan 08, 2013 4:52 pm

I have 2 NIB Crickets and a new Super Soaker T Shirt circa 2005 for league prizes this year. Perhaps the biggest prize should be something rare. Not sure. It's a shame we can't get limited release WW guns in league colors with the league logo on them.
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby Fishfan » Tue Jan 08, 2013 5:14 pm

Did anyone notice that almost everyone is online right now? Anyways, I think I will start a Youtube channel and a website, to try and popularize Water warfare.
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby DX » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:02 pm

Top 10 Free Hosts

Try one that gives you better stats. Webs.com gives you almost no space and not that much bandwidth, with 3rd party ads. Yuck.
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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby GJIV » Thu Jan 17, 2013 4:42 am

isoaker wrote:
GJIV wrote:I would like to have a new, CPS Soaker, somehow useable(when I look at the HydroCanon I can only shake my head, a Soaker, just useable after heavy modifications...)

Other than this I would like to get a CPS 2000 Mk1 in its box :D Quite sure this will not happen ;)

Heh... while I can only agree, marauder was referring to the WWn League, not stock water blasters. :goofy:

:cool:


Haha sry ;)

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Re: Changes for the 2013 Season

Postby marauder » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:59 pm

I know this is an old topic, but does anyone else think it would be cool to have a list of battles attended, rounds played, and average attendance/round for people/submissions in the league? I would go back and add this to the 2012 and '11 seasons, because looking back we won't be able to fully understand the past points systems, but we will be able to remember how many battles we were in, which I feel is somewhat useful.
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