Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Development of the WaterWar.net League.
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Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby SEAL » Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:06 pm

Rather than try to bring this up in the Official Trash-Talking Thread, I figured I might as well make a new topic for this.

So basically I think we should have some kind of written ruleset before we start fighting. Obviously, it would consist of common sense rules like no soaking non-participants, no violence, etc. But there are probably other things we should include. We can discuss rules in this thread.

One thing I would like to bring up is whether or not the teams have a right to pick up their opponents blasters and use them for themselves. Should this be allowed? I would be in favor of it, except for the fact that I don't really want anybody to use my blaster unless I know the person well and know that he/she wouldn't abuse it. We could say that anybody is allowed to take water from an opponent's blaster and use it to fill their own, but can't take the blaster itself. Or we could just say that an enemy who breaks your blaster has to pay for a new one.

DX, didn't your team have a written ruleset? If you still have it, you should post it here so we can work off it.
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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby marauder » Sat Oct 06, 2012 1:35 pm

If you don't want anyone to use your gun then don't leave it lying around. Any gun that is left on the battleground is fair game.
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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby isoaker » Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:28 pm

Isn't this the right time, then, to update the overall Water Warfare Combat Rules wiki page?

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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby DX » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:29 am

This was the most recent version of our rules. They'd need a lot of revision and modernization to be useable in today's water warfare, though:


Water Wars 2007 Season Official Rules

Section I: Powers of Founders
1.1 Team founders have unrestricted and unregulated power to make decisions for their respective teams. Commanders who are not founders do not have this power.

1.2 Founders have the final say by joint-agreement in determining contested hits.

1.3 At least one founder from each team must be present in order for a battle to count as a ranked war.

1.4 Only founders may edit team rosters, claim lists, accept/reject prospective members, set battlefield boundaries, change battlefields, set war dates/times, change war dates/times, and edit the rules. Additional powers are not denied.

1.5 At least one founder from each team must meet at either team’s starting location before a war may officially begin. No kills count until this contact is made. After this initial meeting, time must be allotted for a founder to return to their respective team.

Section II: Honor Code and Behavior
2.l All players must declare truthfully when they have been hit. Lying may result in a kill penalty against their team.

2.2 A time out may only be called for a medical emergency, kill dispute, or dangerous change in weather [such as an incoming thunderstorm]. Verbal agreement and/or one whistle blast may be used to pause game play for a dispute. Three whistle blasts may be used to pause game play for an emergency. A minor cut and the like are not sufficient to pass as an emergency. Game play only resumes upon Founder agreement.

2.3 A player is vulnerable to be hit at all times from the official start time to the official end time of a war. Hitting a player while refilling is perfectly legal. A player who falls can be hit unless they have an injury requiring a time out.

2.4 No player is allowed to inflict physical harm upon another player, such as pushing their gun out of the way when shooting. Wars-related verbal taunting is allowed.

Section III: Standard One Hit Scores [OHS]
3.1 A direct hit to the shirt counts as 1 kill/point.

3.2 Splatter damage roughly the size of a player’s fist to the shirt counts as 1 kill/point.

3.3 Players have infinite lives. When killed, the re-spawn period is 2 minutes. After 2 minutes, the player must clearly indicate that they are back in.

3.4 Re-spawns must occur behind friendly lines. A player may not re-spawn in an area held by an enemy.

3.5 Enemies must give re-spawning players a few hundred feet for breathing room and may not attack them right away.

3.6 Enemies can ignore 3.5 if there is still fighting taking place in the vicinity. It is up to the re-spawning player to move away from an area of active combat.

3.7 If a whole team is wiped out, they may take a free refill from any area behind their current position and/or territory they currently control.

3.8 Water on the shirt from a leaking gun does not count as a kill. Water from fording does not count as a kill either. Honor is used to distinguish in this matter.

3.9 Accidental friendly fire counts as a kill against the team involved. Intentional friendly fire does not count. Shooting yourself [suicide] counts as –1 kill/point against your team, but not as an enemy kill/point.

3.10 A kill made outside the designated out of bounds lines [OB lines] does not count. Kills made before the official start, end, and during time outs also don’t count.

3.11 The team with the highest amount of points at the official end time wins a ranked war. Ties are allowed. Skirmishes are not ranked.

Section IV: Possessions
4.1 Possessions of any player may be raided during a battle, but must be returned at the end. Items not related to combat [such as phones, cameras, etc.] must be left alone unless a player has permission to move them. Food and drinks of any kind count as battle-related items and are fair game.

4.2 By taking anything, players agree to assume any and all damages resulting from their use of the possessions. Keep in mind that some water guns may have a market value of over $150. Single-use items, such as filled water balloons and drinks, do not have to be returned or replaced.

4.3 Anything placed in a supply cache is fair game for either team. Responsibility for caches is waived.

Section V: Weaponry and General Regulations
5.1 There are no weapon bans. If it can shoot water, it can be used. Founders by joint decision may impose restrictions on certain forms of weaponry if some aspects of their use are potentially dangerous.

5.2 Water balloon launchers must be shot at an angle [~ 30 degrees], regardless of range and pressure. It is acceptable to reduce the angle when shooting uphill.

5.3 Water cannons cannot be shot at a target from within ~20ft, regardless of the water/air ratio and pressure. There is no angle restriction. A water cannon must be tested against an actual volunteer before use in battle.

5.4 Shields are illegal. Anything mobile that blocks fire on the shirt is considered a shield, except guns and backpacks.

5.5 Fortifications existing before a battle begins may only be dismantled by combat fire/bombardment.

5.6 Refills may be taken at any location at any time from any water source. Players may carry and cache as much water as they like.

5.7 Players may carry and cache as many guns as they like.
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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby marauder » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:39 am

Here's the last up-to-date set of rules for the Vermin Wars, circa 2006.


Part I: Hits
a) A hit is defined as a direct shot, or any fist sized "splash damage," to any part of the body, or any clothing covering the body with the exception of a player's shoes.

b) Hits made while refilling count.

c) If you go inside a building, said building has become fair game. Hits made inside said building count.

d) The only time hits are not counted are in the case of a medical timeout or if the hit is made out of bounds.

e) "Out of bounds zones" are to be agreed upon by both teams prior to start of the battle. If a player is caught out of bounds they receive a hit made against them and are out for the rest of the battle - including 1 hit scores respawn matches. If no "out of bounds zones" are agreed upon then "out of bounds" does not exist - anywhere is fair game.

f) Friendly fire does not count as a hit.


Part II: Game Types
a) A team is victorious in 1 Hit Kills when all opposing players are eliminated. If you get hit, you are out, that is it.

b) A team is victorious in 1 Hit Kills + Capture the Flag upon the completion of either of the following conditions: all enemy players have been eliminated, or the enemy flag has been returned to your base. If a player gets hit carrying a flag they must drop the flag immediately where they are hit.

c) A team is victorious in 1 Hit Scores + Capture the flag if they have more points than the opposing team when time expires. Teams will agree on length of the battle before beginning. Hits count for 1 points, captured flags count for 10 points. If you get hit you must return to your respawn point prior to reentering the game. If a player gets hit carrying a flag they must drop the flag immediately where they are hit.

d) A team is victorious in 1 Hit Scores if they have more points than the opposing team when time expires. Teams will agree on length of the battle before beginning. Hits count for 1 points. If you get hit you must return to your respawn point prior to reentering the game.


Part III: Respawning

a) You cannot place your respawn point within 50 yards of a flag in CTF. (Amendment from V10)

b) If fighting is occuring around a respawn point players must hold their gun over their heads upon respawning. Once respawn is complete bringing the gun down from over your head signals you are fair game again. A hit cannot be made against a player respawning (with gun over head). Likewise, respawn zones are not invincibility areas, if a player's gun is not over their head they are fair game to be hit. (Amendment from V10)

c) No standing over a respawn area and shooting players while they are bringing their weapon down from over their head. Give a grace period of 10 seconds to get out of range before re-commencing combat. (Amendment from V10)


Part Iv: Miscellaneous

a) Captured enemy weaponry and equipment are fair game. If you don't want someone to take your stuff, then keep it on you. If someone breaks your stuff, then too bad, it happens, and you shouldn't have left it out.

b) No physical fighting or taking weapons or equipment out of the hands of an opposing player. (Amendment from V4)

c) Shields are only allowed during soakfests. Since we no longer have soakfest wars this makes shields now illegal. (Amendment from V4)

d) Waterballoon launchers are to be treated like any other weapon. This means cached launchers may be captured and used, etc. Launchers may be used at any angle and from any distance. If you don't want to get hit at point blank range then stop using a Helix. (Amendment from V10)

e) Smoke bombs are legal.

f) Fireworks and rockets are legal. Aiming bottle rockets, etc. at opposing players is not.

g) A trap is legal so long as it is not designed to cause physical harm, eg. nothing with sharpened stakes. Trip wires and water pits may cause sprained ankles but are not intended for such purpose and thus count. Water pits can cause a hit/kill if the splash damage is fist sized or greater on any part of the body/clothing other than one's shoes, or if the standing water comes up over one's shoes.
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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby Poseidon2000 » Sun Oct 07, 2012 10:19 am

Sounds good....... I don't know what else to say... :mrgreen:
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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby SEAL » Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:43 pm

Thank you guys. We can use these rulesets to build off of. My team never had a written ruleset, as we have never been that big until now. I'll mention our old hit rules (which we never wrote down, but had memorized) though: basically, they're what we usually do at community wars; it's up to the reciever to determine whether or not it was a hit. We've also done a few variations: one was where we used a "health" system, where you had to be hit once in the head, twice in the chest area, and three times in the arms or legs. We pretended to be wounded after getting hit, but that's totally optional. Not that we should use this system though; it's a tad complex. We also had where you had to be completely soaked from head-to-toe, but that was a disaster, so I think we swiched to just the chest area. Our most recent rules have been the same way as the communty wars, and I think we should keep it that way.

I'll try to pick out things in you guys' rulesets that I think we should keep (from the top, so it won't be very organized).

Founders are basically captains, right? I like the system that DX has, and am in favor of keeping it. Kill disputes haven't really been an issue anywhere other than those hill defense rounds at Hydropocalypse, but it might be good to at least have the rule where you can call a time out to agree on a hit.

As for Section II, it can be kind of hard to tell whether or not someone's been lying, unless their entire chest is soaked or whatever. However, like I said before, disputes haven't been much of a problem so far, and hopefully it'll stay that way. The time-out rules sound good, though are whistles really needed? If the other team is out of ear's reach, the captains could just call each other with cell phones. Of course, we would have to make it a rule that captains can only call each other if there's an emergency. The rest of Section II sounds good.

You're already working on game rules, right? I still would prefer spawn points, but to avoid people getting lost in an unfamilar forest, it's probably better to use something similar to what you had. I guess two minutes sounds pretty good, though we wouldn't be able to use the notepad method unless each player carried a notepad with them and would be required to write down the name of who killed them before they're allowed to respawn. I don't know if we should include the friendly fire thing or not, but I kind of like the sound of it. I don't think I've ever seen anyone accidentally shoot their teammate before. And why would anyone commit 'sucide'? Haha. I'm not sure if boundary rules are really necessary, as we'll be fighting over large areas. Concerning ties, I think we should have a tie-breaker to determine the winner. Each team would have to start maybe 100-200 feet apart, and the round will switch to OHK. A 'sudden death' match, if you will.

Everything in Section IV sounds good to me. Section V also sounds pretty good, though I don't think angle restrictions on WBLs are necessary, since we usually fire them at an angle anyway, to get better range. However a range restriction should definitely be put into place, like maybe no less than ~50 feet, so people won't get a black eye from the sabots. What about the shield rule? Obviously portable shields would be illegal, but should hits on your blaster count? I know they did it that way in Nerf, but I've always allowed blocking streams with blasters.

Now on to marauder's rules. Like I said, the hit rules we have now seem to be pretty good, so we already have that. I don't really like the out of bounds rule, though it probably wouldn't matter because we will be fighting in very large areas. I kind of like the idea of friendly fire counting, and it never happens anyway, so we could make it count. That's something we can decide on.

Your gametype rules are all pretty much standard, so there's no need to change them. I've never done OHK + CTF before though. It seems to me like one team will be eliminated before any flag captures are made. I think I'd prefer regular CTF (the kind that we've been playing), though CTF + OHS would be fun too.

The respawning rules woud depend whether or not we have spawn points, but either way, we should have some kind of rule to prevent spawn-raping.

The misc. section could use a little improvement if you ask me. I'm fine with people being able to steal the other team's weapons; who the heck would even leave something lying around anyway? But I am still in favor of limiting the legal firing range of a WBL to around 50 feet. Any closer is just too dangerous with the sabot still in mid-air, and we've had a lot of close calls. As for smoke bombs and fireworks, why would anyone want to bring those to a water war? I can see where a smoke bomb would be useful, but a rocket? Maybe as an objective...

So those are my suggestions.
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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby marauder » Sun Oct 07, 2012 1:43 pm

It seems like maybe we have been following a different ruleset regarding hits... I've been hit several times on my legs/arms and called myself out. Was I supposed to keep fighting? lol anything other than my shoes has counted as a hit on me.

You need to try using plastic sabots, those Pringles cans are dangerous. I have absolutely no problem with having no range limit on WBLs so long as sabots don't have metal in them.

The rockets were used as distractions or for signals. In the first Vermin War the enemy launched a ton of fireworks from about 1/2 mile NE of our position. We had been waiting around for 3 hours for them to attack, so we were completely startled when they launched off the fireworks. Then they sent out a highschooler with a CPS 2000 and his dad? with an XP 110 from where they had launched the fireworks, which totally destracted us. Then the entire rest of their army came around from behind screaming at the top of their lungs no more than 100 meters SW of us... so I'd say it worked pretty well.

We used some kind of mortar simulator in V4 to signal a joint attack from opposite ends of the neighborhood. That worked out pretty well too.

In regards to weapons being left out, you have to imagine a battle with 20-30 combatants that takes place over an entire afternoon. It's often advantageous to cache weapons. Additionally, people often used more than 1 gun, and stored backups at bases in case guns broke (and they often did).
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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby HBWW » Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:10 pm

At HBWW, an item has to be in play for the game in order to be used, stolen, etc. Ideally, whoever broke the equipment is responsible for it, but in practice, I end up being the one who has to deal with it.

We generally only allow "traditional" water weaponry, up to WBL's. We'd probably allow smokescreens though, if they were available.

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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby isoaker » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:15 pm

When it comes to ruleset development/evolution, while having multiple contributors is great, we really need one person to truly "own" the final decision making process when general consensus cannot be found. The owner also helps push the development along since he is usually the one most interested in seeing the rule set made as complete as possible.

While I've "owned" development of rulesets in the past, I just don't have the time currently to be able to oversee the League Team Ruleset development. Who here is willing to take on this very valuable and important project since, well, how the rules are set and explained will affect how the Water Warfare League is seen to newcomers?

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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby Poseidon2000 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:00 pm

Probably DX, M4, or SEAL. the capitals, literally. :P
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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby HBWW » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:18 pm

Sounds like a task for M4 and/or myself. (At least as far as specific game ideas go.) My main reservation against taking the position is that there may be times that I can't devote the time needed to do this, plus I don't have any community war experience yet.

Therefore, I take position of President of the Game Rules Division and appoint M4 as second commander in chief. In all seriousness though, I don't think a ruleset or rulebook is ever truly complete for water warfare. There are always things we need to agree on for the official stuff; agreed on once and for all, but also, our own game fields are constantly changing and new games being made. Perhaps what we really need is a standard system for scoring that can adapt to new games. For example, when we play a new game that's rather experimental, but want it to be competitive, the fairest way to play it is to let both teams play both positions. This can be as simple as swapping starting points in CTF, or as involved as switching between attackers and defenders. As long as the rules allow us to play competitively by scoring, I think it works.

But before we get to that, we do need the basics ("Organizational-Specific rules, according to http://hbww.wordpress.com/briefing/), nailed down; rules we don't want to change much if ever at all. I think the stuff I wrote for HBWW has application here on how we decide to setup Official League Games, as well as separate the standardized from the experimental. (A concept I unfortunately didn't cover on HBWW.)

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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby isoaker » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:51 pm

@CA99: took a quick look over at the page you linked to. Good info, but I'm not in full agreement with some of the parts that you've classified as "Organizational-Specific". Things like battlefield requirements and playing area, to me, would fall under game-specific rules as opposed to organizational-specific.

The main overall rules that would affect all game types at a given event would be general safety things, acceptable water sources, overall player conduct rules and refereeing (if applicable), and the overall definition of what is (or isn't) considered a "hit" (including acceptable "hit" regions if needed). As you noted, what occurs after a "hit" occurs definitely falls under game-specific rules, but to avoid confusion, it's probably best to stick to one way to gauging hits during an event.

While I'm all for members going for experimental games at times, but when it comes to setting up the Official League Rules, best to stick with more defined games first and have a subsection later on how to deal with experimental/tentative/new game types under consideration.

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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby HBWW » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:35 pm

Some categories cover both. Battlefield limits are Organizational-Specific for me because I cannot host games just anywhere I want. They are also Game-Specific for those games I have that don't follow our standard playing area needs.

Edit/Update: Our "standard" games still need to be fun and have variety, in my opinion. Regardless of what's standard or not, what we really need is stability: game setups that are tested and proven for a variety of variable factors such as battlefields and number of players. However, even then, most games will only truly be fair by splitting into rounds where all teams get an equal chance to play each position, because virtually no battlefield is truly symmetrical.

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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby isoaker » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:11 pm

This whole development still needs an owner/champion to take the reigns and make it run. Otherwise, we'll just end up with this thread, a series of unaligned rule sets, and no definitive agreement on what it takes to really host a League Team game.

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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby SEAL » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:19 pm

I can do it, though it might be better if CA99 did it, since he's neutral, and an expert at the game/rules aspect of water warfare. Though wasn't DX going to write a ruleset? What became of that?

I already posted my thoughts on rules in this thread.
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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby DX » Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:57 pm

The one I am writing is only intended for the CT war. There will be a lot of rules that will be useful for league games, but I'm not attempting to write an exhaustive list for everything.
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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby isoaker » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:10 pm

Duxburian wrote:The one I am writing is only intended for the CT war. There will be a lot of rules that will be useful for league games, but I'm not attempting to write an exhaustive list for everything.

For what it's worth, I don't think the League Ruleset should attempt to be exhaustive, either. It needs to be fairly specific, clear, but offer enough flexibility to allow for experimental games to some degree. Those running the League should help shape the ruleset to ensure that key details and objectives are captured, but trying to make a canonical everything ruleset for the League is not just unnecessary, it may even defeat the goal of the League. Sometimes, to make games more accessible to a wider audience, some options just should be limited from the start even though others may like other variations on a game.

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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby HBWW » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:51 pm

I'll take the task if most people agree for me to do so, but I'll need a whole ton of feedback to do so successfully.

My approach to game setup is perhaps a bit like programming: The goal is to define what factors, variables, objects, etc. we have that we can use to create a template that allows us to create a specific instance of a game. The reason I take this approach is that 1. we have a way of theoretically creating almost any game possible, and 2. we have full control and flexibility for changing how things are run. Or in this case we know what to manipulate in order to do so. What I'm going to propose here will build on the concepts I wrote up for HBWW with lot of it will be the same or similar. It'll read like a textbook though, so bear with me. I'll link it as a Google Doc here when I'm done.

In short, it will be a way of organizing information; it will encompass every topic and organize it in a hierarchy that makes this whole thing easier to discuss and work with. For example, topics like hit rules are categorized under the item "Hit Rules", and "Hit Rules" are categorized under something else ("Game Regulations", perhaps). Essentially, I'm trying to recategorize what we have and make sure everything is wrapped up so that each list at each level isn't too long nor too short.

After that, step 2 is to agree on what we want for these variables, factors, objects, etc. That step will be easier once we agree on all the factors/variables/objects that we can, within reason, specify.

Edit: Here is a rough work-in-progress.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1chN ... fMh4g/edit

If you need edit access, send me a Gmail address.

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Re: Official League Team Ruleset Planning

Postby HBWW » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:58 pm

Suddenly, everyone disappears. Was it something I said? :goofy:


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