CPS 1-3-5. modification

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jayblazer
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CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby jayblazer » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:50 am

Alright gents I picked up a 1-3-5 and am cutting my teeth on modding water blasters on it. So far I have Sealed up all its leaks and cut off all but the center nozzle and filled the stubs left behind with epoxy. So far everything is going pretty well but the blaster did not pick up much from going to 5-3-1..lol it shoots harder but I'm looking for a little more. I'm thinking the 1x nozzle is to small for the amount of pressure I'm pushing at it. I have searched but cannot find a list of nozzle sizes vs drill bit sizes. would any of you have a chart you could share? Also Im open to suggestions on what to do next..

jayblazer
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby jayblazer » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:06 pm

Well i just found a drill bit that was a little bigger and drilled it out. I'm happy with the result. Stream does not shoot much if any further but it is certainly thicker. Shoots hard for about 20-25 feet then kind of comes apart. The trigger is broke so I need to figure something out for that also.

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the oncoming storm
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby the oncoming storm » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:26 pm

1/8" nozzle is about 3 to 4 oz/s 11/64's is the same as CPS 5x and pushes between 6 and 7 oz/s, 1/4" is the same as a CPS 10x and pushes between 10 and 12 oz/s. Anything larger is usual useless unless it's a CPS 2000.

also please remember to K-mod the PC with around 30 balloons, should provide more power.


Also I think you are forgetting than water guns ranges are measured at 45% rather than flat as with NIC nerf guns. as than is how they are normally used (by us)
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jayblazer
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby jayblazer » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:45 pm

I didnt know that, thanks. Balloon mod does look nice but im already getting cracks in my fireing valve. could you recommend an epoxy to coat it with?

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the oncoming storm
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby the oncoming storm » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:06 pm

I'm not any kind of expert on epoxys I'll leave that up to someone else
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SEAL
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby SEAL » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:45 am

JB Water Weld is my go-to epoxy for sealing up pressure leaks. My CPS 2000 also had cracks in the valve, so I put that stuff on it about two years ago, and since then it's been through several wars without an issue. My SS 300 had some serious leaks that I tried using everything from regular epoxy to PVC cement to patch, and none of them worked. Then I put on the Water Weld, and that was the end of that problem.

Only thing is, it's a pain in the ass to work with, especially when you're wearing gloves (and you should). It's very sticky.
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby jayblazer » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:51 pm

Did you just apply to the outside of the firing valve or did you open it up? If you opened it did you boil it to get it to open. Mine is solvent welded shut.. Thanks for the help guys..

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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby SEAL » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:10 pm

I just applied it on the outside, over the cracks.
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jayblazer
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby jayblazer » Mon Jun 15, 2015 5:29 pm

Awesome and thanks for the quick response..

Here's where i am so far..
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marauder
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby marauder » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:26 am

This is exciting! You should use a brass nozzle or a nylon spacer for the nozzle. Nozzle drills for anything over 2x are notoriously turbulent and result in short ranges and lots of stream breakup. The_Soaker can tell you all about brass nozzles, they work well.
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jayblazer
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby jayblazer » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:57 am

Do you have a link to his work? What the heck I might as well go all out.. This is now practice for my 2700.

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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby the oncoming storm » Tue Jun 16, 2015 11:30 am

jayblazer, The_Soaker was the first person to get a 1200k to shoot 50' thanks to a brass nozzle, With the stock nozzle that same 30 balloon 1200k only hits 45'

One thing that the 2700 can and should differ from the 1-3-5 on concerning nylon or brass nozzles is that they should be added to the selector rather than the pull valve personally I think the 2700 only needs to have a 3/8" setting added to the stock nozzles and a 30 balloon K-mod then watch out CPS 2000 class power with more versatility thanks to the selector.
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby marauder » Tue Jun 16, 2015 1:54 pm

I don't know if the 1-3-5's nozzle cone (that big orange piece encompassing the entire nozzle) is big enough to support a brass nozzle, but you should definitely check. I have a feeling that the 1-3-5 loses a lot of power due to how long the firing valve is. It was made long on purpose because there's no other way to accomodate the 1, 3, or 5 nozzles at once based off of how far you pull the trigger back. Using a nylon spacer may be your best bet. You could probably do quite well with something similar to 8.5x. We need to find out what size in inches that would be.
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jayblazer
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby jayblazer » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:11 pm

Here's tonight's progress. JB water weld enforced firing valve and 60 balloons. I guess tomorrow I will start trying to figure out something for the nozzle. If you add a zero for the K-Mod then what would this be?? 1-3-5-0? 1350?
Do you have a link as to what you are talking about with a nylon spacer? Or could you please explain a little more in depth?
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby SEAL » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:24 am

I don't have much experience with this, but I know that putting a lot of balloons on puts heavy stress on the firing valve. If I were you, I would've only put on about 30. With 60, I wouldn't expect it to last very long.

Also, now that you've put water weld on, since you've altered the shape of the assembly, you may have to cut up the casing a bit to get it to fit.
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jayblazer
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby jayblazer » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:34 am

I test fit it. And as I read through old forums it seemed that 60 was about average. Heck at this point if it blows I will just try and figure out a new strategy. That's last 20 or so balloons was pain in the ass.

jayblazer
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby jayblazer » Wed Jun 17, 2015 6:26 pm

Well I put it back together and Gave it a few pumps. and about 10-15 and the firing valve failed. Wow that was faster then expected. So I loaded it up and went to a Local little hardware store and found a small ball valve and a return spring that would work to close it. I'm sure I can get all this into the Blaster but then I started thinking this is really easy, to easy. Do ball valves work alright for this type of application? This is a 1/4 inch valve and I thought I would use 1/8 inch i,d. pvc as a barrel. Any suggestions or thoughts? I really want to finish this one up before my 2700 gets here. :cps2700: I know it has problems too but I have no idea what they are as I have not seen the inside of it yet..

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the oncoming storm
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby the oncoming storm » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:27 pm

A 1/4" ball valve is way too small for a CPS cannon, it WILL hurt your performance 1/8" PVC will hurt it even more.
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jayblazer
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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby jayblazer » Wed Jun 17, 2015 8:46 pm

Wow okay I thought I should try and keep it tight. So what do you suggest then a half inch valve with a 3/8 id barrel? Also does a ball valve do okay in this application?

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Re: CPS 1-3-5. modification

Postby the oncoming storm » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:15 pm

I don't know to get this to work well, but some members have made ball valves work with homemade triggers.

The reason diameter matters so much for a water gun is that flow-rates for a given area at a set pressure are much lower than with air 3/8" is fine for any nozzle I would possibly recommend, personally I vote for a 3/16's nozzle it should get high 40's' or even low 50's with that heavy K-mod and still have decent field life.
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