WARNING about modifying WW guns

[WaterWolf]

Do not check-valve freeze Water Warrior guns. I did my Lightning, then when I pumped it one pump (I think) above the normal, it went bang and sprayed water every where.

This is a warning to all you fellow modifiers, don't make the same mistake I did and end up loosing a good gun.



Edited By WaterWolf on 1159305123

[isoaker]

Sounds like the Water Warriors' diaphragm design just isn't meant to take additional pressure from an over-pump. Thanks for posting, though sorry to hear your soaker-loss. Have you verified which part actually gave up (i.e. the bladder, the bladder connection, inner tubing, something else)?

[Rook]

I hope it's only the tubing.

That seems rather odd to me-- a relief valve being perfectly calibrated so that one extra pump breaks it? Weird...

[DX]

If the valve blew out where you sealed it, instead of cracking somewhere else, it can be easily fixed. Most likely, it gave out at only one pump above normal because your seal was not good.

[WaterWolf]

I checked inside the gun and my mod was solid, the bottom casing for the chamber however, had a very thin but fairly long crack on both sides of the spout that attaches to the rest of the gun. I'll get some pics up if people would like them.

BTW, I'm not entirely sure if it was just one pump, but it wasn't more than a few above the normal number.

[SilentGuy]

Uh...it shouldn't have been that abnormal, and due to things like this, there's no need to PRVD unless you've also reinforced the bladder.

Think about it. The bladder will always exert the same force, so it's easy to be specific about at what pressure to set the PRV. But as soon as the bladder hits the walls of the chamber, the only thing left to compress when you pump is the water. It's a lot easier to break the chamber plastic than to compress water.

Pretty much as soon as you pumped too much, everything overloaded. That's why we stress being careful after modding, and that's actually why the valve is there--safety for you and for the soaker.

[wetmonkey442]

Sorry to hear about your loss. I've actually experienced this sort of thing before, and it can be extremely disheartening. I personally, don't recommend CVFs (And yes, I still call them that) anymore, simply because of the risk to the gun. A good k-mod is quite effective without a CVF, and is completely reversable.

Unfortunately, you can't k-mod a diaphragm, so until anyone develops a similiar modification for them, I'm not getting anywhere near them. Water Warriors guns are pretty good, but my Blazer performed terribly just because I opened it up. They don't seem to have much of a machanical tolerance for tinkering, and if everything isn't replaced in the exact same position, the water doesn't flow right, and the gun doesn't perform as well as it should.

If you could post those pictures I'd appreciate it. Mind if I upload them onto Downpour?

Soak On

[SSCBen]

Sorry to hear about the break.

The real lesson here is to not do the pressure relief valve freeze modification unless you do a pressure chamber modification as SilentGuy stated. To reiterate, the modification mainly allows you to pump water in when the force is too high. The valve kicks in at a set force to prevent bad things from happening as demonstrated. In CPS water guns, the force is constant, so a pressure relief valve freeze has no benefit by itself. You need to do a pressure chamber modification which increases the force over the set one in the valve.

One extra pump gives the water no place to go, so something broke. That will happen in any water gun with the PRVF modification.

You can do the spring modification to increase the force, but really it won't be worth it from what I've been told.

My opinion: most modifications are unnecessary. Don't modify unless you believe it will help your water gun and then only do the necessary modifications. You won't really hurt anyone, but you can easily break your water gun if you do something incorrectly.

[WaterWolf]

To WetMonkey: Sure, I'll post some pics.

To Ben: Ya, though when I CVFed my MX-d 6000, it allowed me to give it a few extra pumps, with no structural difficulties.

I've got some heavy duty adhesive gluing in the cracks right-now, I'll post again when its dried completely.
Yes, yes, gluing a pressure chamber is a long shot, but I figured, that I have nothing to lose. And while I have this dilemma, I can experiment with different ways to repair problems like this.

[isoaker]

Definitely keep us posted on your progress. Findings like this will help future experimenters, for sure.

Pictures would be great. If you need hosting, you can email them to me and I'll put them on the iSoaker.com server to allow you to link and include them in future posts.

[SilentGuy]

Well, every gun is different. MD6Ks are separate-chamber air pressure soakers, and the PRVD just allowed it to compress the air a bit more. In soakers with rubber bladders, the air is allowed to escape through a hole, but the water can't--thus leaving a lack of space. Hopefully the soaker is still functional.

[WaterNapoleon]

I don't modify water guns for that reason.
P.S. Can someone tell me a gun that doesn't need pumping, is lightweight, but has good range, power, and can hold a lot of water?

[WaterWolf]

Well, there is the Scorpion.
Look in Isoaker.com's armory.

[SSCBen]

To Ben: Ya, though when I CVFed my MX-d 6000, it allowed me to give it a few extra pumps, with no structural difficulties.

The Max-D 6000 operates on a different principle. As SilentGuy and I both have said repeatedly (just want to get the record straight on this because this is not a reason at all not to modify water guns), air pressure water guns usually can take more pressure because the extra water will just fill in the air. CPS water guns on the other hand operate on the force of the rubber. Extra water has no place to go. That's what breaks it. You never CVF a CPS water gun unless you need to for a modification like the K-mod. A CVF alone just removes safety features!

[SilentGuy]

It is very easy to pressurize air, which is why air pressure water guns are practical in the first place, but the actual water is a different story. It is for all intents and purposes impossible to pressurize water--you'd need some heavy-duty equipment to do that. The systems are completely different.

On a more recent topic, there is no ideal gun. You'll really have to do a bit of juggling with your priorities. The Scorpion is decent, but it is HEAVY. Older, quick-filling guns (that pressurize from the hose) that use backpacks--the Big Trouble and the Power Pak--are decent, and even the range limitations aren't all that bad. There's also the Hydra Pak, which requires pumping while being immobile, but then its performance is great.

The requirement of no pumping really kills the contenders.

[WaterWolf]

The Scorpion popped into my mind as the one that would best meet his request above, (Except the part about light-weight) and its available in stores now.

@ WaterNapolian: The requirement of no pumping does narrow it down quite a lot, I'd suggest you remove that from your list of needs above.