Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Recommended places across the globe to hold a water war / water fight.
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marauder
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Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby marauder » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:37 pm

Once I get a job I will be moving into Riverwood, a village on the north side of town (Clayton). The advantage of living in Riverwood is that the village is built up against the Neuse River and its wetlands, meaning that, behind the development there is a massive amount of land that can never be developed and is public green space. While the river is a bit large to include in our fighting, though it could be done, the area features several other key features, such as Mark's Creek - about the size of the Ho Ho Kuss Brook in Ridgewood fame, Dawson Branch - a smaller stream, a cat tail pond, and a network of small paths that run through the woods. The terrain is very similar to Saint John's Woods, without the Pine Forest.

Here's the work in progress map -
rsz_riverwood_map.jpg
rsz_riverwood_map.jpg (73.86 KiB) Viewed 904 times


Although Riverwood itself is massive, this is the area which I think has the most potential. The actual map that I'm working on is much bigger and I'll break it up into smaller maps, but to be able to place the whole thing onto this topic I resized it greatly. Red is trails, though I haven't marked all of them yet.
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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby HBWW » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:40 pm

Since you have the ability to actually build structures here, I think it's worth experimenting with mobstacles: cheap, portable cover used by the NIC. (See: http://nerfhaven.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20335 CONTACT ME BEFORE BUYING PARTS, since I have a lot of them from reckless spending and can sell some at good pricing.)

Generally, mobstacles won't work that well for water wars due to being short, but I think they'd definitely beat fighting in the open or almost-open.

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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby marauder » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:53 pm

The primary fighting area would be defined by Mark's Creek to the West, Clayton River Walk to the East, Dawson Branch to the North, and the Neuse River to the South. This area, or at least if you follow the edge of the map, is about 150 yards wide by 300 yards long. Dawson's Branch is jumpable, it's like the creek at Hydropoc, so there's no reason we couldn't expand the battlefield further north if need be. That doesn't sound very big, but it's about the same size as Dug Hill, which should totally work with 8-15 combatants.

The brown on the map are paths, except the big brown blob on the north side of the battlefield. That is a big open bowl type area. It's interesting in that everything kind of slopes down into it. So, it's like a reverse ridge, a depression. The walls, if you will, of the depression are only 3-5 feet, and they go from a gentle slope to an absolute incline. While this is not very high I would argue that small hills and ridges are best in waterwarfare. Anything too high encourages camping. There's also a healthy smattering of giant tree trunks, downed tree trunks, and other natural obstacles to hide behind, surrounding this area. The depression has very few trees growing in it and is mostly short grass, though there is high grass on one side, and everything is still dark and shaded since the tree canopies tower over it.

Thanks for the link, those are great. As Sam said, this is an area you can mess around with, so, I'd be looking to add obstacles. I would go for a more natural look, so, if I did something like that I'd use mosquito netting instead of tarp and then I'd ghillie it. Don't imagine this as some sort of paintball field, but as a forest with overgrown old military barriers. In some areas I may create small marshy areas to force movement in certain directions. I may end up making bunkers and piling living grass and trees on top of them to give a nice overgrown effect. Bunkers haven't been used in our wars yet, and I don't mean these as trenches or hold the line type obstacles where teams stay in one place, but as methods for maneuver, blocking, and obscuring field of view. Also, as I told Sam earlier, I have used overhead obstacles in the past, such as netting suspended over a bunker, to block incoming shots and force people to get into range to take shots at less than 45 degrees. Imagine this as a super overgrown military training facility of some sort, mostly woods, but with a decent amount of scattered obstacles. That's my vision.

Oh, and, another huge advantage is that this would be within walking distance from my house. Transportation time would be absolutely nil. This would completely maximize fighting time and revolutionize how we fight our community wars. I also envision packing food for each team and handing them out prior to the fight. That way if the war calls for seriously long rounds, everyone has their rations. 8)
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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby Cochise » Tue Jun 23, 2015 12:31 am

I'm all for using mobstacles in waterwars, and if they can be made to look natural... all the better. That link reminds me of how ridiculous it is that most major nerf wars are held in completely open spaces. Don't get me wrong, I love nerf, but I completely dislike how major wars work. Anyway, this idea sounds totally op. You should also consider creating bunkers in combination with natural trees that make it impossible to see around unless you get right up on them. The more ambushes the better. I wonder how this would work with long OHS games. It looks like it'd be superb for 30 minute capture the flag type battles...

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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby Chupacabra » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:56 am

Thats super cool bro:)
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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby marauder » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:45 am

So, I'm working on the video now. Here's a crappy map (I'm working on a better one) to give you some idea of the battleground, and it also serves as a key to the video.

map.PNG
map.PNG (164.38 KiB) Viewed 931 times


1: Old streambed being used as path (3:18 & 12:48 in view from ridge overlooking it) potential base?
2: Deer meadow, potential base (& 12:00)
3: Land's end (the peninsula) possible base (8:15 and view of at 22:45)
4: Neuse River Ridgeline and end of public domain (10:20)
5: Old wagon road (min:sec)

6: I fall into Dawson's Branch after spotting a deer. Crossover stream onto "the island." Circle above is dried up pond/thunder gulch type env but less rocky (14:50 to 16:00 dried pond at 17:10)
7: Forest clearing with high grass (19:30 and 34:08; short views at 14:00 & 19:00)
8: Mark's Creek overlook and potential base (22:00)
9: "The green hell"/"Murder Row" potential flag location (24:35 to 26:50)
10: Swamp and foot bridge over 10 ft deep ravine/cravice below and ridgeline above (26:50 to 28:50)
11: Tri creeks, potential flag location (29:20)
12: Marsh pond (32:00)
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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby HBWW » Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:30 am

Can you get a link to the map on Google?

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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby marauder » Sun Nov 01, 2015 3:16 pm

HBWW wrote:Can you get a link to the map on Google?


Here's the link on Google Maps. It puts things in perspective, but you can't see any details.
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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby c0chise » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:52 pm

marauder wrote:1: Old streambed being used as path (3:18 & 12:48 in view from ridge overlooking it) potential base?
2: Deer meadow, potential base (& 12:00)
3: Land's end (the peninsula) possible base (8:15 and view of at 22:45)
4: Neuse River Ridgeline and end of public domain (10:20)
5: Old wagon road (min:sec)

6: I fall into Dawson's Branch after spotting a deer. Crossover stream onto "the island." Circle above is dried up pond/thunder gulch type env but less rocky (14:50 to 16:00 dried pond at 17:10)
7: Forest clearing with high grass (19:30 and 34:08; short views at 14:00 & 19:00)
8: Mark's Creek overlook and potential base (22:00)
9: "The green hell"/"Murder Row" potential flag location (24:35 to 26:50)
10: Swamp and foot bridge over 10 ft deep ravine/cravice below and ridgeline above (26:50 to 28:50)
11: Tri creeks, potential flag location (29:20)
12: Marsh pond (32:00)


I hope the video turns out to be as good as these names. I don't think I've ever fought somewhere with a 10 ft deep ravine or an old wagon road.... let alone someplace called "the green hell." Why is it called that? How far across is marks creek?

and yeah the google map is basically broccoli

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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby HBWW » Sun Nov 01, 2015 9:56 pm

Hmm, the south area is quite linear and narrow; not sure how much of that is a good thing or a bad thing. (Definitely good for OHS to prevent wandering.) Either way, this area is quite different than what we've usually played.

Edit: ^ Not just broccoli, 3D BROCCOLI! Go to Google Earth and tilt the view; you can see the trails, creeks, river, bridge, and just a little bit of terrain variation here and there. Street view in the neighborhood gives you an idea of the kind of trees in the area and helps guesstimate the density of the area. All in all, definitely nice to have, although obviously, only photos, panoramas, and videos will show the stuff up close.

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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby marauder » Mon Nov 02, 2015 6:31 am

https://youtu.be/nuPhFst5qhs

*edit*
I can see why Rob and Sam are crazy about rendering times. I was impatient and put the video file, an hour and thirty minutes worth, on the laptop instead of desktop, which has an actual graphics card, etc. etc. because someone else was using the desktop. zOMG it's freaking slow. I rendered all last night so that when I get home from work I can upload the next video to youtube (which will probably take all night again). The next video shows the meat and potatoes of the battlefield, which is much thicker, but I went ahead and uploaded the actual map I'm working on. So check the first post.

Imagine two teams on opposite sides of marks creek. You can see each others bases, even throw waterballoons or shoot launchers, but to attack you have to go all the way around and fight in the middle, unless you are going to try a suicide rush directly across the creek to the enemy base. That tactic could actually come into play late in the game. If your offense is sieging the enemy base and about to get the flag your defense could suicide rush the enemy from behind, the enemy would turn around to stop your defense from flanking them and in the process would turn their back on your offense who gets the flag. Would be a classic gambit. Kind of giving away some tactics already, but think about it. Would be pretty fun I think.
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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby marauder » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:15 am

Alright, the rest of the battlefield is up now - https://youtu.be/m6O7f-kOfow
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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby c0chise » Wed Nov 04, 2015 8:23 am

The idea of having bases on opposite sides of Mark's Creek is really interesting. I like that you could see the offense while you're on defense yet feel miles away. The second video looks a lot thicker than the first. The green hell would be really good for outposts... As for night wars, would you use the same bases? It may be good to switch it up a little but I'm not sure.

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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby SEAL » Thu Nov 05, 2015 9:31 pm

That is a very unique setup where each team can see each other when they start, but can't easily reach one another. I don't believe I've ever thought of that before. Though in this case if I were to capture the flag I'd just dash through the water and throw it up to one of my teammates on D. It's an interesting concept, but it'd probably be better if the short way was much more inaccessible. Like a much bigger river, or a cliff or something.

Aside from that, the battlefield looks to me like a more open version of St. John's Woods, but I'm sure it's better during the summer.

BBW wrote:Edit: ^ Not just broccoli, 3D BROCCOLI! Go to Google Earth and tilt the view; you can see the trails, creeks, river, bridge, and just a little bit of terrain variation here and there. Street view in the neighborhood gives you an idea of the kind of trees in the area and helps guesstimate the density of the area. All in all, definitely nice to have, although obviously, only photos, panoramas, and videos will show the stuff up close.


I honestly hate that feature. It could just be my computer, but the 3D graphics make the trees look like they're from some of the very first 3D video games ever made. All I see is a sea of green lumps. The worse part is that I can't see close details from the normal satellite view 'cause the crappy virtual graphics replace the camera view.
Image

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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby HBWW » Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:35 pm

You can easily disable the 3D and angled views (both at a time) through the menu on the side.

Image

IMO, the amount of geometry and texture detail Google managed to get is actually quite remarkable.

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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby marauder » Fri Nov 06, 2015 8:11 am

SEAL wrote:That is a very unique setup where each team can see each other when they start, but can't easily reach one another. I don't believe I've ever thought of that before. Though in this case if I were to capture the flag I'd just dash through the water and throw it up to one of my teammates on D. It's an interesting concept, but it'd probably be better if the short way was much more inaccessible. Like a much bigger river, or a cliff or something



This is a very good point, but I need to note that the water is too deep to walk across to/from the peninsula. It's about 7 feet deep. The alternate to swimming, which would probably be illegal, would be a balance walk across the tree. Then you'd have to climb up a 7 ft bank. I think that's pretty challenging. My thought was that if your offense was threatening you may be able to cross the tree when they've turned their back to your base. I'll time myself next time I'm out there just to see how much time you'd need to get across. It should be plenty challenging.

This would be something we've never done before, however, in that each base could have a lot of waterballoons and possibly a launcher. When your offense is threatening the enemy base you could shell it with waterballoons from behind. So, the defenders will not only have to dodge shots from attackers in front of them, but will have to watch out for waterballoons from behind. Could be cool.

SEAL wrote:Aside from that, the battlefield looks to me like a more open version of St. John's Woods, but I'm sure it's better during the summer


What did you think of the green hell area?

And if we're careful we could go back to Saint John's Woods. I'd just drop you off - forward up towards the highway - in car trips and then park the cars at my parents house and the drivers would walk down.

Also, Clayton is expanding the greenway to go from Riverwood to Legend Park. This would not be my first choice, but I like options. If I end up having a team again or if some people want to come down for some kind of hardcore challenge we could fight in Riverwood then have a team run to Legend Park a few miles away and resume fighting there. We could assign a few individuals to set up ambushes along the Greenway. We'd see how long it took us to get from Riverwood to Legend Park with time penalties for every time someone got hit. Again, that would be more of a training excercise than a war round, but it'd be really good.
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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby c0chise » Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:02 am

marauder wrote:
SEAL wrote:That is a very unique setup where each team can see each other when they start, but can't easily reach one another. I don't believe I've ever thought of that before. Though in this case if I were to capture the flag I'd just dash through the water and throw it up to one of my teammates on D. It's an interesting concept, but it'd probably be better if the short way was much more inaccessible. Like a much bigger river, or a cliff or something



This is a very good point, but I need to note that the water is too deep to walk across to/from the peninsula. It's about 7 feet deep. The alternate to swimming, which would probably be illegal, would be a balance walk across the tree. Then you'd have to climb up a 7 ft bank. I think that's pretty challenging. My thought was that if your offense was threatening you may be able to cross the tree when they've turned their back to your base. I'll time myself next time I'm out there just to see how much time you'd need to get across. It should be plenty challenging.

This would be something we've never done before, however, in that each base could have a lot of waterballoons and possibly a launcher. When your offense is threatening the enemy base you could shell it with waterballoons from behind. So, the defenders will not only have to dodge shots from attackers in front of them, but will have to watch out for waterballoons from behind. Could be cool.


Sounds pretty awesome. And yeah, the woods look a bit open in a lot of areas, but there are plenty of places to hide too. That kind of makes it seem a bit like the place frozen fury was held last year. A mix of dense and open. Didn't that work out pretty well? The waterballoon idea is something different which is good too.

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Re: Riverwood, Clayton, NC

Postby SEAL » Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:57 pm

marauder wrote:What did you think of the green hell area?


Haha, that's also what they call the Nurburgring (race track in Germany). It was okay, but in my experience whenever there's a trail going through really thick stuff, people just stay on the trail and run into each other head on, which isn't the most exciting form of combat. There is ambush potential here, which means nobody is going to want to walk through it, haha. But I'm just making guesses here.

What does Legend Park look like in the summer? I feel like it'd actually be pretty good, though I guess those hills might be an issue.
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