Favorite Battleground?

Recommended places across the globe to hold a water war / water fight.
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marauder
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Favorite Battleground?

Postby marauder » Wed May 29, 2013 4:13 pm

Hey everyone, I was wondering what your favorite battlefield was. Show some pictures if you'd like or just describe it.

For all the WWN League War vets, please go to http://hydrowar.wordpress.com/2013/05/2 ... tlefields/ and rate all the battlefields you've fought at. The higher number the better, with 10 being absolutely amazing, 5 being ok, and 1 being terrible for a water war. The page I linked to is super ghetto, you just have to scroll down and vote on each battlefield. I plan on having an individual page for each battlefield as well as a link to a topic about said battlefield here (if available). Each poll will be posted on the individual page that corresponds with the battlefield, but for right now I'm just getting the polls up.
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Re: Favorite Battleground?

Postby HBWW » Wed May 29, 2013 9:54 pm

St. John's Woods: 6/10 - Too player-hostile for my taste. I can stand some environment hostility, but being unable to navigate due to thorns is too much for me. The action is also defined too much by the environment; I'd often have to choose between getting hit or getting injured. Overall not my kind of place.

Edit: And what SEAL said regarding the old b!tch with the shotgun.

Legend Park: 8/10 - Excellent variety and has some very good spots. Gets a bit boring sometimes due to the way the players are funneled around the woods, but still has great spots.

Carderock: 8/10 - Haven't gotten to experience as much of the variety here, but the area we played at was alright. Too many rocky slopes, although the environment isn't as hostile as St. John's woods. (But still nearly as dangerous.) When we went, bathroom was closed which forced us to fill up at a far-away spigot/faucet before we went all the way back to the main battlefield.

Would have rated this 7/10 but there's some potential here and I haven't explored a lot of it.

Sycamore Island: 9/10 - Definitely one of the best. The variety is awesome, from canoeing boats to a tough-to-attack treehouse area, stretching down to an area with two buildings conducive to the battle experience. Environment is somewhat player hostile at some points (particularly with undeveloped areas, lots of log piles at the north end, and stinging nettle at the south end), but not hostile enough to be a problem for me.

Westland Middle School: 9/10 - The only issue is the huge open areas, but that's to be expected. Lots of schools are great areas to have water wars around, but Westland had it setup very well. Lots of portable classrooms made for intense urban water warfare, and being at nighttime was perfect. Paved open areas create intense stream dodging fights while buildings allow for some sneaking around during those times. Edge of playing area featured some woods, bringing some variety into the mix.

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Re: Favorite Battleground?

Postby SEAL » Thu May 30, 2013 10:18 am

Dug Hill: 9/10 - Perhaps I'm a bit biased, but I do think that this location is really excellent for water wars. It actually has a good staging area, something that most other battlefields lack. The woods area ain't too shabby either, and I recently found some seriously awesome-looking locations that we didn't know about before.

Umstead: 7/10 - Most of it is kind of in the open, and although I hear there are better areas, they're apparently quite a walk to get to. It's a pretty decent battlefield, but I really haven't seen that much of it, so my vote may not be worth much.

LBW: 9/10 - Perhaps I shouldn't have rated it quite so high (I can't change my vote), but I do like the area. Urban fighting is so much fun, and LBW is really great for it. The only issue with LBW is lack of water and the fact that it takes like half an hour to walk there.

Paine: 8/10 - A solid battleground. I've never seen it in the summer when all the leaves are out though.

St. John's Woods: 8/10 - I liked the fact that it was thick. It's fun when you have to be stealthy, and the round that we had there was extremely intense. The only problem is the fact that there is no parking area, and you have to carry all you guns into the woods. Being next door to a grumpy old lady with a shotgun doesn't help either.

Legend Park: 6/10 - A little dull for my tastes. There weren't a whole lot of good places to battle either. At least it has a staging area.

Carderock: 7/10 - Some of it was good, but the rest was a little less so. I still like it a lot, but the lack of refilling areas hurts the score a bit. Overall a good battleground, but it could be better.

Sycamore Island: 9/10 - I really loved this location because of all the concealment. Those chest-high plants worked very well for hiding in, even though some of them were rather painful. It has a good staging area as well, but I don't like how you have to use that ferry thing to cross the river, which is a bit of a pain, and the cars are too far away.

Westland Middle School: 9/10 - This place was truly epic, but it probably wouldn't have worked that well in the daytime. For night wars though, I've never fought in a better place. I love the mix of urban and woods fighting that it offers. Unfortunately there weren't any refill sources.

Onteora Lake: 7/10 - I know it wasn't on the list, but I'll give it a rating anyway. It has some really great spots, but like Umstead, they are a long walk in. There isn't much of a staging area either.

My favorite battleground however is not one that we've used in any wars. There's this place near where I live that is absolutely epic, but it lacks a staging area and you kinda need a permit to go there. Still, I rate it 10/10 for fighting, though overall it'd probably be 9/10 just because it's inconvenient. I should take some pictures sometime.
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Re: Favorite Battleground?

Postby HBWW » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:53 pm

After Frozen Fury, I'd like to revise some ratings:

St. John's Woods: 6/10 - Still think it's too player hostile, and I don't recall ever seeing any suitable places for setting up ambushes that don't involve giving everyone on your team a ghillie suit and a painted/burlapped 2000.

Legend Park: 6/10 - Too run-of-the-mill, although it provides nice refill points.

Carderock: 7/10 - Need to try this place again, but again, it seems too much like your average run-of-the-mill woods area. May have more potential for hiding though due to the way the terrain varies.

Sycamore Island: 9/10 - I want to fight here some more. The actual games we had here weren't that great, but the field as a whole is nice.

Westland Middle School: 8/10 - Lots of large, open areas, although the cover and ambush points are nice.

Dug Hill Park: 6.8/10 - Again, quite run of the mill. Offers a variety of terrain for various game setups, but there's not that much in the way of fast-paced action and stealth.

Factory @ Beacon (I still refuse to use its real name): 8.5/10 - Needs tweaks and adjustments, but has huge potential, much of which we didn't really get to use due to awkward game setups. Main problem is setting up and illegality of use.

Northgate: 8/10 - The hills and woods are vast and don't offer that much action. Not really that well suited to compact battles in the structures either, but you could find a good spot.

Barn/Foundry: 9/10 - Kinda screwy for larger OHS games, where the woods and terrain aren't very navigatable (partially due to debris) and result in very run of the mill woods standoffs. The structures however, are something else, and have produced some of the best short games I'm aware of us ever playing. The 1-flag CTF games are some of the best water wars I've ever played in general, even though the battlefields were too constricted. The stream is nice for refilling

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Re: Favorite Battleground?

Postby SEAL » Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:49 pm

I guess I'll do the same:

Dug Hill: 8/10 - I still think it's a really great and convenient place to fight at, though some sections are a little bland.

Umstead: 7/10 - Same as before.

Onteora Lake: 7/10 - Same as before.

LBW: 7/10 - Too small, no water, and a long walk, but otherwise it's pretty cool. The reason I rated it so high before was because it was kind of a new thing. Now I've been spoiled by better urban environments. Edit: Forgot that it's being worked on now. I guess I'll go with DX and give it an updated rating of 3/10.

Paine: 8/10 - Same as before.

St. Johns Woods: 8/10 - Same as before. I liked how it was the one of the only battlegrounds used in community wars where stealth played a significant role.

Legend Park: 6/10 - Same as before.

Westland Middle School: 9/10 for night wars (hurt only because there's nowhere to fill), but probably like 5/10 for daytime battles. So maybe like 7/10 overall.

Sycamore Island: 8/10 - Another stealth-based battleground; however it's kind of small and hard to access.

Carderock: 7/10 - Same as before. I didn't get to see all of it though.

Factory: 7/10 - Looks epic, but gameplay is hurt a little thanks to all the bottlenecks and open areas. That coupled with questionable legality and lack of water bumps the score down. Otherwise it ain't too bad, and would be way better if we could alter it a bit. That said, I wonder what it'd be like to fight there at night?

Northgate: 9/10 - I really liked this place, but I think the hills hurt the gameplay a bit. I'm sure it'd be better in the summer though.

Barn and Foundry area: 6/10 - Mediocre woods and a long-ass walk, but the buildings make up for it somewhat. Still, I don't think they're that special; those 1-flag CTF games would've probably worked just as well in one of the buildings at Northgate.

Cement Plant/Brick Yard: 9/10 - If this place wasn't quite as hard to access, it'd be top-shelf. Actually fighting there might change my opinion, but it looked extremely promising.

Insane Asylum: 10/10 - If this place was actually erm, legal, I'd give it an 11. It's effing absolutely mind-blowingly INCREDIBLE. 160 acres and like 15 awesome buildings, including one with 10 (yes I said TEN) floors. On a list of things I want the most in life, fighting a 24-hour war there would be like number 4 on it. It's just that good. Maybe I'll post some pictures soon.
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Re: Favorite Battleground?

Postby HBWW » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:31 pm

We need a kickstarter to raise money for turning the insane asylum into an open tourist attraction, as public space. Problem is all the city code violations that would happen if left as is.

Northgate buildings were nowhere nearly as well suited as the barn and foundry were. Most of the mansion is unnavigateable.

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Re: Favorite Battleground?

Postby DX » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:48 pm

My new ratings and changes:

Dug Hill: 7/10 - New battlefields have made Dug Hill a bit boring.

Umstead: 8/10 - I got to see some other areas of Umstead this year and it's got huge potential that we haven't tapped into.

Onteora Lake: 6/10 - Nothing new to add.

LBW: 3/10 - No longer abandoned. Theater still usable, pavilion has been ruined. Lots of construction activity.

Paine: 7/10 - I go there really often, so I am bored by the place. Summer potential is much higher than winter.

St. Johns Woods: 9/10 - Has gone up in favor due to the hardcore, stealthy fighting. I find myself missing that these days.

Legend Park: 7/10 - About as it was before - boring, but usable.

Westland Middle School: 9/10 - Night only.

Sycamore Island: 8/10 - The northern part of the island was great.

Carderock: 6/10 - Lack of easy refilling hurts it.

Beacon Terminal/Tioronda Factory: 6/10 - I don't care about the legality as much as the chokepoints and refilling issues. I'd forgotten that the upper area does not connect both sides, which greatly limits the gameplay.

Northgate: 9/10 - Note that the barn and foundry are part of Northgate, it is all one, large estate. You can tell who is from what part of the country by their reactions to the hills at this place. I enjoyed a bit of home field advantage, moving my team up and down the hills, while the enemy lagged in reaction time.

I can't rate the cement/brick factory or insane asylum until I've fought there.
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Re: Favorite Battleground?

Postby marauder » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:08 pm

First of all, let me say that for the most part I don't disagree with any of you. Each battlefield offers distinct advantages and disadvantages that will be seen more or less favorably from person to person. With this in mind I have left out an overall score in my review system, but instead have a "author's bias" rating. I will be writing reviews for each battlefield, but for now I'll just give you how much I liked each one (author's bias) and a short synopsis.

Umstead: too many options, would have to grade each part seperately.

Saint John's Woods: A+ Being able to sneak around and ambush people is huge for my type of battles. I don't know of anywhere else you can do this as much. Also, I messed up with parking. I should have had everyone park and unload on the off ramp from HWY 70 to Ranch Road. That is perfectly legal and away from the residences. I'm sorry about that guys.

Factory: B+ I am typically biased towards forest sites, but I also absolutely love dark rooms and creaking stairwells. This place does need some work. I would like to open up more doors and create some mobstacles. I also think it would be cool to play here on a full moon, using some chem lights in the warehouse rooms. Imagine camping out here and fighting at night. Would be absolutely amazing in my opinion. So, yes I've given this the 2nd highest ranking, but it's mostly based on potential, which is odd because you know I am a very pragmatic person. Not saying this is my 2nd favorite battlefield, or that some of the best battles were fought here, but I'm saying I think fighting here at night would be absolutely insane and this alone gives me a huge adreneline rush.

Legend Park: B Basically a better Dug Hill in my opinion. Why do I think it's better? 24/7 access with almost no one ever using it. Having a natural water source on top of faucets is a huge plus. Some areas of the park are thicker during the summer, but still not super amazing. Overall not super amazing exciting, but just more usable in my opinion.

Foundry/Barn: B- Hike was wayyyy long and takes a lot of fighting time away. The stream is a nice touch. Fighting in the buildings was amazing. Still, this is a very limited area because fighting between the buildings sucked. You are limited to fighting at the 2 building complexes. Yes, I know this is the same as Northgate, but it's so far away that it's truly a different battle site.

Dug Hill: B- The pavilion is worth a lot of points. The big green lawn area is also valuable because I really think we should camp out there. Thunder Gulch 1 and 2 are still some of my favorite battles ever. With that being said, I think we are now too cautious to make Thunder Gulch as good as it was the first time around, and the likelyhood of it having just the right amount of water (if any) is a bit random. The rest of the battlefield varies between boring to too rough. By too rough I mean the giant cliffs across the road or the really thick vegetation in one area we haven't fought in. That thick vegetation could be good for fighting if some trails are cleared.

Paine: C+ I'd like to see this place during the summer time. I think we could make it a good battlefield with some natural barricades, especially if we section off small areas for intense warfare. But again, I'm just not sure, it's just a guess.

Long Beach West: C+ Really cool looking place, even after seeing the new battlefields. I still think the theater would be a lot of fun with some more people, but the overall "replay value" of the place is not very high since it's such a small battlefield with a lot of the same things being likely to happen over and over again.

Northgate: C. Probably my least favorite. That's not to say that 2 of the rounds we played (first and last) weren't a ton of fun, but I dislike battlefields without lots of cover and places to sneak around. Yes, there are some cool structures, but there's also a ton of open ground, and dilapidated only semi usable structures. The hike was also annoying, even if it wasn't very far.
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Re: Favorite Battleground?

Postby HBWW » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:50 pm

I'm totally up for another war at St. John's Woods. My first impression of it was a bad one partially due to lack of skill. If I can get in a game where something interesting actually happens, I'm up for it.

As for my own biases, they should be obvious. Not gonna lie, trying to hit you through the windows in the barn was fun. If only I remembered the doorway there and how fast you run while crouched lol. Close quarters urban warfare is the ultimate in quick-stealth and ambushing. There's always solid cover to hide behind and opportunities to strike the enemy quickly and swiftly without them expecting it. Those opportunities have been turned against me numerous times as I've used them, but the overall style of gameplay is just endless, relentless action. There's ALWAYS something happening.

Northgate hike wasn't as terrible as it could've been. (And that's coming from the guy who lags behind uphill who was too exhausted to fight.) The Foundry/Barn takes the cake on worst hike so far, at least for me.

Dug Hill: I insist on a CQB style war around the pavilion area next year. Something like single-sided CTF or single-sided Outpost. Tried to get one of those types of games last time, and no one cared to. The huge clifftops make for some of the most annoying and actually dangerous games I've played.

I'm starting to come to the conclusion that for woods warfare, you camo up or you do nothing. This means wearing face paint, possibly a ghillie suit, and no GoPro to give away your position. I keep hearing about all these ambush points in thick foliage, and have yet to see a setup in our wars where it can actually happen, except for at Sycamore Island.

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Re: Favorite Battleground?

Postby marauder » Fri Dec 20, 2013 7:24 pm

There were plenty of places at St John's woods where you could ambush. Also, I'm sure you could find a simple black cloth cover for your gopro. The lense wouldn't be much of a liability.
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Re: Favorite Battleground?

Postby DX » Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:36 pm

Ambushing isn't just about camo and blending in. After re-reading my own history, I've determined that most of the game-changing ambushes I've been involved in could have been pulled off while wearing blaze orange. One team stalked the other or just guessed where they would *have* to pass, then hid behind something there. In the Community War era, this is much tougher to do, mainly because our woods trend open. But, that's not the whole story, because Goffle was as open as the woods we use now, yet we ambushed Waterbridge from behind ordinary trees several times. Waterbridge was faster, stronger, and smarter than modern enemies, (albeit inferiorly armed) and heavily militarized against RM ambushes, yet they remained vulnerable when games were on the line. Why is it so much tougher to ambush modern community teams? I'm actually unsure.

One goal this year is to deliver a close-quarters natural experience like in the good old days. I finally figured out the "reeds" from Ridgewood wars are Fallopia japonica, Japanese Knotweed. They are a highly invasive, broadleafed, bamboo-like species that grows taller than a man, in groves denser than privet, yet gives way easily and carries no thorns or poison. The stuff is a dream for water wars, but evidently spells death for native floral ecosystems, as it crowds out everything else. So, don't feel bad when you trample some down.

Prospective war sites include the Waterbridge location itself and the newly discovered Waterbridge-like area on the Danbury Greenway here in SW CT. The Greenway location has knotweed forests of superior height and depth vs Waterbridge, but is not exactly a sprawling area. I will be scouting for more of these elusive places to use for 2014 Frozen Fury, which I hope to hold earlier in the year when the reeds are still up (they peak in the early summer and stand well into October). I guess this is why I loved the northern end of Sycamore Island and St John's privet forests so much - those are the closest we have come to my native element in water warfare. I feel most at home while stalking enemies deep in a knotweed grove.
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Re: Favorite Battleground?

Postby HBWW » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:59 pm

I'm up for further exploration of more natural-based battlegrounds, but I'd like them to be a bit more varied than the very generic woods that are all over Dug Hill Park (although that park has a lot of decent spots too). My opinion of Legend Park has waned, and I think we need more radical game setups for it to stay fresh. For example, that site where we had the HTL game could do with some heavy revision to the game rules, like not restricting the attackers to one side of the buildings. (Though the HTL game itself would need to be revised or swapped for other objectives.)

We need some suitable forums setup for planning the League's 2014th season. I learned the hard way that there's no such thing as the "off-season" now. (Hell, even paintball has one, at least for outdoor.) Theoretically, it should've ended well in November.


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