My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Guides and discussions about building water blasters and other water warfare devices such as water balloon launchers.
TylerK
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My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby TylerK » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:03 pm

I don't know if this is okay in a separate thread (let me know otherwise).

The CPH I've been working on just shot 71' 4" to the last drop, about 70' to the last puddle. No wind/breeze detected. This was achieved with a 6" long (1/4" orifice) smooth brass tapered nozzle paired with a 3/4" x 3" 'laminator. Nozzle was from Ewing Irrigation supply. Took about 60 pumps. Triple layered LRT (5/8" thick wall).

Video only of measurement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsNFzyj ... e=youtu.be

Nozzle: https://www.dropbox.com/s/s4rhv5daroqmp ... 9.jpg?dl=0

"Laminator" https://www.dropbox.com/s/8y1pbwfadjftx ... R.jpg?dl=0

TylerK
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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby TylerK » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:24 pm

Question (maybe for Ben?); would lubricating (with silicone grease) the inside of a brass nozzle help reduce drag/friction? Creating a smoother thin layer between the water and the wall. From what I gather, there is usually a slow moving thin layer of fluid/water between the wall and the rest of the stream.

Also, for 'stream straighteners' would a square design like this (http://www.edarley.com/stream-straightener/) be better or worse than using round straws?

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Drenchenator
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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby Drenchenator » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:58 pm

Wow, good job! Ben's CPHs only got around 65 feet, if I recall correctly, though at the time our nozzle technology was quite bad. Your nozzle is excellent and is likely the reason for the performance boost above the baseline.

As to the lubrication questions, there was a thread about this a few months ago, though it also discusses some other ideas for reduce friction.
The Drenchenator, also known as Lt. Col. Drench

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Tim
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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby Tim » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:30 pm

Hi Tyler,

Once again, great work!

Is that 6" nozzle as smooth on the inside as it is on the outside? Most 6" nozzles are cast (rather than machined from bar stock), so they are rough on the inside.

Have you compared the performance of your 2" brass nozzle vs. 2" red plastic nozzle vs. 6" brass nozzle?

Do you plan to test 3mm straws vs. 4mm straws in your laminators?

What mesh size are your screens?

Drench, thank you for pointing out that thread. Tyler, I never tested a temporary coating, but I probably should have because you never truly know unless you test.

VR,

Tim

TylerK
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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby TylerK » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:07 am

I'll have to play around lubricants (most likely silicone). Was just curious.
The 6" nozzle is very smooth inside and is not stepped either; I made sure of that and is why I brought locally ($7.95). The 2" nozzle got 64' last drop, 58-60 effective (like Ben's did). The red one is not as good, little bit smaller orifice (some of the red ones have extra plastics burrs on them that creates turbulence). I'm going to also test the nozzle with the whole 'upper receiver' of the gun in 3/4" pvc (the lower pump assembly is 1/2").

I've been using 3mm straws. Don't have any 3mm, but I have tried regular and shake straws. I'm going to make another laminator with a plenum and three screens like you did in POPCAP. The mesh screens are the standard sink aerators from Lowe's (don't know what size, but they are not the small filter ones). I also want to try one with 1/4"OD x .17"ID vinyl tubing instead of straws. Isn't the CPS2000 straws made out of a thicker material about the size of a drinking straw?

Also, my LRT layers outside diameter is larger than the ID of the next one to achieve maximum thickness. But is tricky to layer.

EDIT ABOVE:Using 3mm straws NOT 4mm.

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Tim
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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby Tim » Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:47 pm

Thank you for the info, Tyler! These might just be the only non-cast, non-stepped 6" sweeper nozzles on the market. I've been looking for a long time. I've already placed an order at http://www.ewingirrigation.com.

If you've already tried regular straws and shake straws, I'm guessing your 4mm straws perform better than those two. Correct? Is it worth comparing 4mm straws to 1/8" (~3mm) straws? I have order information for 1/8" straws on my POPCAP BOM (item 40) if you are interested.

Yes; the CPS2000 has larger-diameter, thicker-walled straws. You can see an image of these straws if you scroll down at http://www.waynesthisandthat.com/cp2000.htm.

Is that a red gasket sandwiched in the PVC with your screen? What is that for? It looks like it might be restricting flow a bit.

VR,

Tim

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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby TylerK » Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:37 pm

So I remeasured the straws with a clearer ruler and they are 3mm (I had edited the post above). Yes, the larger straws haven't worked as well in my 'straighteners', but now I'm interested in a 4-5mm size (slightly larger than current). Both of these below are 5mm:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GGGPL06/re ... 18CBE2BRW6
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DQAP8PS/re ... 1PX1OCY830

I also wonder how brass tubes would work like these: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B017JCXYUY/re ... Q6VGYZU7SY

I've seen that image at wayne's site, but just wanted to confirm (I haven't held a 2000 in person).
Yes, that is a rubber hose washer to keep my screen from flying out and in place (it fits great in 1/2" pipe but is slightly too small for the 3/4" adaptor). I've seen your parts list and know I can get the correct size from McMaster. It does narrows it just a hair.

That nozzle on Ewing's website should be it (has a incorrect picture); because the list price was $13.xx like it is on the website, but in store it was 7.95. Doesn't McMaster have a smooth bore 6" nozzle? Or I think I've seen them on firefighting supply places (usually $20-30!).

After it stops raining I'll test the new laminator out and the full 3/4" upper.

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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby SSCBen » Tue Sep 20, 2016 7:38 pm

TylerK wrote:Question (maybe for Ben?); would lubricating (with silicone grease) the inside of a brass nozzle help reduce drag/friction? Creating a smoother thin layer between the water and the wall. From what I gather, there is usually a slow moving thin layer of fluid/water between the wall and the rest of the stream.

Also, for 'stream straighteners' would a square design like this (http://www.edarley.com/stream-straightener/) be better or worse than using round straws?


Liquid lubricants will not help. The water flow surely will remove any lubricant you apply to the surface. You might do better to look into polishing the surface, but it depends on how smooth the surface is already. Might be worth looking into how gun barrels are cleaned and polished.

As for the shape of the straighteners, I can't imagine that has a major effect. There is some Russian research into that, but I don't know Russian, and I have not gotten around to translating the papers yet.

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Tim
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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby Tim » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:04 pm

Hi Tyler,

"Doesn't McMaster have a smooth bore 6" nozzle? Or I think I've seen them on firefighting supply places (usually $20-30!)." - I am strictly referring to 3/4" GHT Nozzles. The image on McMaster looks like the ones made by Moon American or Underhill - both of these are cast and have a rough surface on the inside. The 6"-long GHT nozzles on the firefighting websites also appear to be cast based on images, descriptions, and customer reviews.

VR,

Tim

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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby SSCBen » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:40 pm

The brass nozzle McMaster-Carr sells is cast, and very rough on the inside. I bought one around 10 years ago and was disappointed.

TylerK
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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby TylerK » Thu Sep 22, 2016 12:58 pm

Thanks Ben for the info!

Yeah, most of the nozzles I found were stepped or rough. Ewing had two in stock at the local store, but one had an extra burr/lip inside leftover, otherwise there are ever so slight lines going in the direction of the flow, but still smooth.

With an ever so slight breeze (tree leaves were still, but could see particles moving since it was dark) it's been shooting 75' to the last drop with the new laminator and 3/4" pipe. But I think that's only because of the air movement.

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Tim
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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby Tim » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:45 pm

Can't wait to get that nozzle on my blaster! My forestry firefighting nozzles were such a bust.

Can you post images of your new laminator? Did you end up adding a third screen and a plenum like you mentioned? These features improved performance in my setup.

VR,

Tim

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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby SEAL » Sat Sep 24, 2016 9:54 am

That's awesome, congrats! This would seem to be a good year for homemades. It's all thanks to new members too, haha.
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TylerK
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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby TylerK » Sun Sep 25, 2016 3:51 pm

Tim wrote:Can't wait to get that nozzle on my blaster! My forestry firefighting nozzles were such a bust.

Can you post images of your new laminator? Did you end up adding a third screen and a plenum like you mentioned? These features improved performance in my setup.

VR,

Tim



The new laminator did improve range just a little bit. Only lasted a couple days until I blew the screens/washers out trying out a riot blast (like I said they were a little on the small side). I'll be ordering the ones you used on POPCAP. So I will have to re-construct it.

I hope the nozzle improves your performance (except for shot time).

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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby marauder » Tue Sep 27, 2016 8:14 am

Has anyone ever actually shot someone or been soaked by someone using a CPH of this magnitude (like POPCAP or Supercannon) ? Just wondering what it's like. That would have to be pretty crazy.

I'd volunteer to take the hit... for the sake of science.
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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby Drenchenator » Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:29 am

I was hit unintentionally at close range by a blast by Ben's SuperCAP (65 feet max in range, 125 oz/s max in flow rate). Ben was doing some riot blast testing when the gun spun him and the stream ended up hitting me. It felt like a very heavy slap on my thigh. It wasn't that bad, actually.
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TylerK
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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby TylerK » Wed Sep 28, 2016 3:55 pm

I just got a pressure gauge, when all the way full (reading through the laminator) I'm getting 60 PSI. Don't how that compares (POPCAP is 70 right?).

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Tim
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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby Tim » Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:40 pm

Hey Tyler,

Yes; POPCAP's maximum water pressure is 70 PSI because that is the maximum pressure rating of the pinch valve tube interior.

VR,

Tim

TylerK
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Re: My CPH just shot over 70 Ft!

Postby TylerK » Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:44 pm

Tim,
I did try these (4mm?) straws you had linked: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AT ... UTF8&psc=1
I like them! The 3mm straws fit just inside of these ones, and I get at least the same performance if not a slight increase. I get about 19 straws in a 3/4 PVC pipe. Thanks!


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