It seems to me that there are four different kinds or "Classes" of Water Balloon Launchers.
A-Class: A for Accuracy.
Sniper rifles such as This kind Build specially for one-shot assassination of a single target from a long distance.
B-Class: B for Bazooka.
(I have never seen anybody construct one of these, but I'm going to make one this winter and I think they could be very useful) I've designed mine as a high-explosives weapon to actually be used in the middle of battles. This is probably the easiest of all the classes to operate, due to its "point and shoot" method of use Some of its potential uses include:
Taking out HWOs, whose job it is to stay somewhat away from the center of the battle and rain heavy fire down on opponents.
Ambushes, an A-class shot is too weak for ambushing, but an artillery shot can be heard and avoided before it hits the ground. This weapon fills that opening in the armory.
Killing (Not literally) shield users.
Attacking bases that are under the cover of trees. Since any artillery shots will just pop on the tree branches, but this weapon goes straight to the hart of things.
C-Class: C for Cannon.
This is the most common WBL, a light artillery such as the Douchenator, which is used as a long-range light artillery for area bombardment and the sieging of entrenched positions. (I have one of these in my arsenal)
D-Class: D for Doom.
This is mostly just a bigger version of the C-class. A heavy artillery for major shelling at long distance. This one is an example of a light D-class. This is the kind of ten-foot monster (I'm just making up a number, it could be bigger or smaller) that you probably want to strap a small air-compressor on it to power (Because it would take so long to charge by hand) and probably a wheeled carriage of some sort would help make transport easier. (My team has a D-class in construction, it should be finished before winter)
So, what do people think?
Questions, comments and constructive-criticism will be responded to quickly.
Edited By WaterWolf on 1158175118
A new way to class WBLs
I don't think that it is possible to classify launchers in the traditional manner. For example, the 1st and 2nd generation Douchenators would place in different categories. Also, leveling any launcher would turn it into a "Class B", while angling a "Class B" would turn it into something else. In fact, by adjusting PVC and pc sizes, I could make a Douchenator for each class. Same basic design, different size, power, and purpose.
Almost any launcher can be adjusted for other purposes. There is no set length, width, or purpose for any of them. So I really don't think this would work. It leaves no room for fluidity. If you want to switch a job, you don't switch the launcher! You just unscrew the barrel or pc and screw on one of the appropriate size. Any launcher can fill any artillery role, to a point, and when switching parts mid-battle, there is no limit.
Oh, and accuracy is a user-based stat. Unless you're using a computer-processed targeting system, there's no such thing as the launcher being accurate. All launchers are at the mercy of physics, wind, trees, aim, and enemy dodging ability. Longer barrels and long term firing experience can help improve accuracy somewhat, but not to a great extent.
Some of the proposed classes also wouldn't exist in various places, since many people do not use compressors, as their parks don't have outlets. Likewise, some teams ban the leveling of WBLs for any reason.
Almost any launcher can be adjusted for other purposes. There is no set length, width, or purpose for any of them. So I really don't think this would work. It leaves no room for fluidity. If you want to switch a job, you don't switch the launcher! You just unscrew the barrel or pc and screw on one of the appropriate size. Any launcher can fill any artillery role, to a point, and when switching parts mid-battle, there is no limit.
Oh, and accuracy is a user-based stat. Unless you're using a computer-processed targeting system, there's no such thing as the launcher being accurate. All launchers are at the mercy of physics, wind, trees, aim, and enemy dodging ability. Longer barrels and long term firing experience can help improve accuracy somewhat, but not to a great extent.
Some of the proposed classes also wouldn't exist in various places, since many people do not use compressors, as their parks don't have outlets. Likewise, some teams ban the leveling of WBLs for any reason.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
I'm classing Bs as a WBL that is especially constructed to be comfortable and effective to fire level. My design uses a sprinkler-valve with electric trigger for accuracy and ease of use. Bs probably have a lower re-charge time and power than the C-class, because your firing about level instead of angled.
Using a D-class WBL as sniper would be overkill and is probably less likely to hit the target than using the A-Class that is shone above.
You probably can't switch a C-class WBL to a D-class, because you need a much wider valve on the D to allow the larger amount of air to be released.
The A-class shown above uses a 2" barrel that fires smaller balloons, but is more compact and accurate, in addition to the Sprinkler-Valve set up.
I doubt that the Douchenator design could be an effective sniper because it would be to hard to handle accurately and uses a ball valve.
As for all WBLs lacking accuracy, look down at the bottom of this page and see what this guy did with his A-class sniper rifle.
http://aqualabs.tripod.com/snipertactics.html
Using a D-class WBL as sniper would be overkill and is probably less likely to hit the target than using the A-Class that is shone above.
You probably can't switch a C-class WBL to a D-class, because you need a much wider valve on the D to allow the larger amount of air to be released.
The A-class shown above uses a 2" barrel that fires smaller balloons, but is more compact and accurate, in addition to the Sprinkler-Valve set up.
I doubt that the Douchenator design could be an effective sniper because it would be to hard to handle accurately and uses a ball valve.
As for all WBLs lacking accuracy, look down at the bottom of this page and see what this guy did with his A-class sniper rifle.
http://aqualabs.tripod.com/snipertactics.html
The Maple-Mountain-Marines.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
Accuracy still has little if anything to do with the launcher itself. You can have the fastest-opening, most comfortable, most powerful type of launcher around, but if you have no experience firing it, your accuracy would probably suck. A very experienced artilleryman can have amazing accuracy with a launcher not even designed to do the particular task.
From what I've seen so far, as long as you have a 1" or better valve, performance doesn't vary much. Pressure is pressure, unless you want to dabble in small stats that have no effect on the field of battle, such as a valve opening 30 miliseconds faster. Who cares? You don't see that difference, except perhaps at very long ranges.
As for sniping, I'd love to see someone get nailed from 700 ft away via any WBL. Especially twice in the same day. If you can do that, you might as well sign up for the armed forces. When shooting my friend Mike to test the Douchenator, we missed him 6 times out of 8 shots. From 50 ft. away! And we've been using that launcher for 3 years. In wars, artillery has been able to do little other than keep enemies behind cover more often. Reeds to water balloons is like nylon to a bullet. Then again, we do have the angle rule and rarely engage in the open when we don't have to.
I'm not saying flat out don't use this system, I'm just saying that I wouldn't use it because I don't believe in its limiting style. Moving toward fluidity in everything has had a profound impact on my team and how local wars are conducted in general. Most tactics, positions, and uses of guns generally accepted in the community today are a full year-2 years out of date. Other concepts tend to be more current, but methods of classification, like having big guns do x jobs, small guns do y jobs, etc. is consistant with the beliefs of the long dead Fort-Building Era of 2002-2004.
In fact, one of these days I'll do a write-up on the progression of war, which will be an interesting read.
From what I've seen so far, as long as you have a 1" or better valve, performance doesn't vary much. Pressure is pressure, unless you want to dabble in small stats that have no effect on the field of battle, such as a valve opening 30 miliseconds faster. Who cares? You don't see that difference, except perhaps at very long ranges.
As for sniping, I'd love to see someone get nailed from 700 ft away via any WBL. Especially twice in the same day. If you can do that, you might as well sign up for the armed forces. When shooting my friend Mike to test the Douchenator, we missed him 6 times out of 8 shots. From 50 ft. away! And we've been using that launcher for 3 years. In wars, artillery has been able to do little other than keep enemies behind cover more often. Reeds to water balloons is like nylon to a bullet. Then again, we do have the angle rule and rarely engage in the open when we don't have to.
I'm not saying flat out don't use this system, I'm just saying that I wouldn't use it because I don't believe in its limiting style. Moving toward fluidity in everything has had a profound impact on my team and how local wars are conducted in general. Most tactics, positions, and uses of guns generally accepted in the community today are a full year-2 years out of date. Other concepts tend to be more current, but methods of classification, like having big guns do x jobs, small guns do y jobs, etc. is consistant with the beliefs of the long dead Fort-Building Era of 2002-2004.
In fact, one of these days I'll do a write-up on the progression of war, which will be an interesting read.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
I completely agree that you need experience to be accurate.
From what I saw in your first post, I thought that your were saying that WBLs were inaccurate no matter what.
I think that the size of the valve actually is a big factor. The people on my team who are working on the D-class WBL, first tried to use a 1 1/2" valve, but it was so too small for the launcher to let out the air fast enough and its range was only that of my C-class Douchenator. Their working on installing a bigger valve now.
And the reason for Sprinkler Valves is to have better control for more accuracy in sniper rifles and bazookas.
I never talked about snipers being able to hit somebody from 700-ft away. But did you look at that guys article?
As an experienced sniper, using an A-class WBL, he was able to hit with 100% accuracy from 120 feet away and won his team the war. I think this speaks for itself.
You said that: "In wars, artillery has been able to do little other than keep enemies behind cover more often."
Well, thats what the B-class is for, it can be fired directly at the target, rather than in an arc.
This way of classing WBLs isn't saying that you have to have your WBL do just "This" or "That", I'm just trying to make an easy way for people to say what they mean quickly when talking about Water Balloon Launchers.
For example: If a launcher can work well with multiple tasks, then call it an "BC-WBL" or what ever it does best or is most often used for.
Another thing I'm doing with this post is opening up the idea of a B-Class WBL, which could fill a nich in the armory for a fairly accurate (Since its built to be used at shorter distances), but powerful, WBL for use in the middle of combat for taking out heavy units.
A.K.A. HWOs, Supply Officers, Grenadiers and other units that tend to stay just outside of the battle in order to be most effective. This weapon would give you an easy way to take them out, but smaller units like scouts and grunts, might be able to dodge the shots better than their more heavily loaded team-mates.
From what I saw in your first post, I thought that your were saying that WBLs were inaccurate no matter what.
I think that the size of the valve actually is a big factor. The people on my team who are working on the D-class WBL, first tried to use a 1 1/2" valve, but it was so too small for the launcher to let out the air fast enough and its range was only that of my C-class Douchenator. Their working on installing a bigger valve now.
And the reason for Sprinkler Valves is to have better control for more accuracy in sniper rifles and bazookas.
I never talked about snipers being able to hit somebody from 700-ft away. But did you look at that guys article?
As an experienced sniper, using an A-class WBL, he was able to hit with 100% accuracy from 120 feet away and won his team the war. I think this speaks for itself.
You said that: "In wars, artillery has been able to do little other than keep enemies behind cover more often."
Well, thats what the B-class is for, it can be fired directly at the target, rather than in an arc.
This way of classing WBLs isn't saying that you have to have your WBL do just "This" or "That", I'm just trying to make an easy way for people to say what they mean quickly when talking about Water Balloon Launchers.
For example: If a launcher can work well with multiple tasks, then call it an "BC-WBL" or what ever it does best or is most often used for.
Another thing I'm doing with this post is opening up the idea of a B-Class WBL, which could fill a nich in the armory for a fairly accurate (Since its built to be used at shorter distances), but powerful, WBL for use in the middle of combat for taking out heavy units.
A.K.A. HWOs, Supply Officers, Grenadiers and other units that tend to stay just outside of the battle in order to be most effective. This weapon would give you an easy way to take them out, but smaller units like scouts and grunts, might be able to dodge the shots better than their more heavily loaded team-mates.
The Maple-Mountain-Marines.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
Organized classifications don't strike out other tasks, but they certainly imply and/or encourage that effect. I personally prefer descriptions, such as saying you've got a certain WBL [or variant of one] designed for mobility, sheer firepower, etc. "Mobile ambush launcher" says more than "C Class launcher" and allows the reader to picture exactly what said launcher would look like.
However, our points of view diverge most significantly at "B Class". Locally, we have a clause which suspends inter-team wars indefinately the moment any WBL is leveled at anyone. This coming from mature, hardcore teams. Banning level artillery shots is like wearing a seatbelt. I need not explain why. If someone were to be injured via artillery shot, it would kill local water warfare, with or without the rule.
However, our points of view diverge most significantly at "B Class". Locally, we have a clause which suspends inter-team wars indefinately the moment any WBL is leveled at anyone. This coming from mature, hardcore teams. Banning level artillery shots is like wearing a seatbelt. I need not explain why. If someone were to be injured via artillery shot, it would kill local water warfare, with or without the rule.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
I understand the issue of safety.
Part of the B-class WBLs designed to make it less powerful than the larger artillery.
This allows them to be safer, more compact and faster to recharge.
In an experiment, I had my younger brother fire my C-class at me, charged to 70 PSI, from 12 feet away.
When it hit me, it stung for a while, but didn't even leave a sizable bruise.
If you search around on that sniper web-site, you'll notice that he is also very strong about safety and has used his WBL in many battles without incident.
Part of the B-class WBLs designed to make it less powerful than the larger artillery.
This allows them to be safer, more compact and faster to recharge.
In an experiment, I had my younger brother fire my C-class at me, charged to 70 PSI, from 12 feet away.
When it hit me, it stung for a while, but didn't even leave a sizable bruise.
If you search around on that sniper web-site, you'll notice that he is also very strong about safety and has used his WBL in many battles without incident.
The Maple-Mountain-Marines.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
All this sounds like a far-fetched naming convention. Use it if you so desire--perhaps as the official naming convention for your team's WBL.
The main problem, in my inexperienced opinion (IMIO? :p ) is that WBLs really can't be much more than artillery. Yes, they can rain down suppressing fire at great distances, but they aren't really that good for sniping due to safety, an arcing, and a slow shot.
Perhaps you managed to ensure that when you were hit at point-blank range, the pressure was low. But what if you can't guarantee that? What if the WBL operator is being irresponsible or just plain careless? I might take that chance with a few people, but otherwise...
I highly advocate the use of a regulator, as you can see in the SSC thread. Perhaps I'd be willing to settle for even a separate PC and sacrifice automatic launching ability, but it would give me the necessary flexibility to fire at any range, assuming I can estimate the range correctly--a 30 degree marker and perhaps a chart/common sense would do the rest.
Do I plan on being able to snipe or anything? No. But at least the aim will be generally on, even if it takes a while, and it will serve the purpose of an artillery barrage. Just because it's unlikely that the attacker would hit you doesn't mean you shouldn't duck for cover.
AquaTech might have built one hot WBL (AquaLabs 3.2), but I wouldn't trust everything on that site.
The main problem, in my inexperienced opinion (IMIO? :p ) is that WBLs really can't be much more than artillery. Yes, they can rain down suppressing fire at great distances, but they aren't really that good for sniping due to safety, an arcing, and a slow shot.
Perhaps you managed to ensure that when you were hit at point-blank range, the pressure was low. But what if you can't guarantee that? What if the WBL operator is being irresponsible or just plain careless? I might take that chance with a few people, but otherwise...
I highly advocate the use of a regulator, as you can see in the SSC thread. Perhaps I'd be willing to settle for even a separate PC and sacrifice automatic launching ability, but it would give me the necessary flexibility to fire at any range, assuming I can estimate the range correctly--a 30 degree marker and perhaps a chart/common sense would do the rest.
Do I plan on being able to snipe or anything? No. But at least the aim will be generally on, even if it takes a while, and it will serve the purpose of an artillery barrage. Just because it's unlikely that the attacker would hit you doesn't mean you shouldn't duck for cover.
AquaTech might have built one hot WBL (AquaLabs 3.2), but I wouldn't trust everything on that site.
Just because a launcher is smaller doesn't mean that it is less powerful. In fact, often quite to the contrary if you use bike pumps. A small pc can still be pressurized over 120 PSI manually, often in only 15 seconds, while a huge pc would take whole minutes to reach that same pressure. My huge 4 foot long 4" pc of a hybrid nerf homemade takes 300 pumps and like 5 minutes to get to 100 PSI. Contrast that to the first generation Douchenator, which takes about 50 pumps in 30 seconds-minute for the same mark. Or to my original battery cannon, which pumps up to 120 PSI faster than the Douchenator pumps up to 80 PSI! Put a 3" barrel on the battery cannon and it becomes an extremely potent, yet very short WBL.
Of course, this is with a bike pump. I don't use air compressors, since there is no electricity on the field of battle.
Of course, this is with a bike pump. I don't use air compressors, since there is no electricity on the field of battle.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
To Silent Guy:
Did you even look at the sniper web-site? From his experience, it is a very effective weapon in water-warfare and though I have no personal experience, I'm inclined to believe him.
To Duxburian:
Yes, a small pressure chamber can be charged to a high pressure, but I'm assuming that you are using the same PSI for the small PC, (70? 80 PSI?) as you are for the large one.
This would result in less/more compressed air and thus, less/more power, due to the size of the air chamber.
There are, portable air compressors that have small (1 or 2 gallon) air tanks, can pressurize up to 120 PSI and could be used on the field of battle. The people on my team who are responsible for the construction of our current work in progress, (a D-class WBL) have one of these small air compressors and we are debating strapping the compressor to the D-WBLs transport carriage.
BTW, What is the "battery cannon"? I'd be interested in a new kind of design.
Did you even look at the sniper web-site? From his experience, it is a very effective weapon in water-warfare and though I have no personal experience, I'm inclined to believe him.
To Duxburian:
Yes, a small pressure chamber can be charged to a high pressure, but I'm assuming that you are using the same PSI for the small PC, (70? 80 PSI?) as you are for the large one.
This would result in less/more compressed air and thus, less/more power, due to the size of the air chamber.
There are, portable air compressors that have small (1 or 2 gallon) air tanks, can pressurize up to 120 PSI and could be used on the field of battle. The people on my team who are responsible for the construction of our current work in progress, (a D-class WBL) have one of these small air compressors and we are debating strapping the compressor to the D-WBLs transport carriage.
BTW, What is the "battery cannon"? I'd be interested in a new kind of design.
The Maple-Mountain-Marines.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
Picture a WBL with a 1/2" barrel instead of 3". That's all a battery cannon is, a WBL that shoots AA batteries at lethal speed. I shot one through 2 cardboard boxes and it continued into my wooden fence, this at 95 PSI.
In theory, the larger pc would have more power. But just try to get a 4", 4ft chamber to 100 PSI in a reasonable amount of time by bike pump. Forget about it. The small pc gets to 100+ in a fraction of the time and can still put a water balloon over 500ft. With that smaller pc, a skilled artilleryman can fire 2-3 rounds per minute.
I've heard of the portable compressors, however, $20 bike pumps have worked well enough for the team. Plus, I can't find the parts needed to connect a compressor to a launcher. You can't just drill a hole, screw in a valve, and be done with it.
In theory, the larger pc would have more power. But just try to get a 4", 4ft chamber to 100 PSI in a reasonable amount of time by bike pump. Forget about it. The small pc gets to 100+ in a fraction of the time and can still put a water balloon over 500ft. With that smaller pc, a skilled artilleryman can fire 2-3 rounds per minute.
I've heard of the portable compressors, however, $20 bike pumps have worked well enough for the team. Plus, I can't find the parts needed to connect a compressor to a launcher. You can't just drill a hole, screw in a valve, and be done with it.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
Yes, I have read AquaTech's site multiple times, and don't get me wrong--that's some very advanced technology and tactics. However, I think he slightly overplayed the value and practicality of sniping. I've already admitted I could be wrong, but it's just too hard for me to believe that the Aqualabs 3.2 launcher could be that good--it's got a nice breech-loading mechanism, but it probably adds quite a bit of weight (it might be useful; I don't know). The tactics are of course great, but even that's assuming your aim is good. Even if his was, since he was an experienced artilleryman/sniper, not everybody can do that.
IMO, a smaller tank at higher pressures is better than a larger tank at lower pressures for two reasons: (1) the larger tank is bulky and heavy, and (2) with the smaller tank, their will be more airflow through the barrel since the barrel size is the same for both but the pressures in the smaller PC are greater.
Edited By SilentGuy on 1158290006
IMO, a smaller tank at higher pressures is better than a larger tank at lower pressures for two reasons: (1) the larger tank is bulky and heavy, and (2) with the smaller tank, their will be more airflow through the barrel since the barrel size is the same for both but the pressures in the smaller PC are greater.
Edited By SilentGuy on 1158290006
I agree that the technology and tactics are quite advanced...for the Firepower Era that is. I'm not even sure about that, as many of the tactics are consistant with the Fort-Building Era, one stage behind it. One of the central points is how kill exchanges are not worth it in the slightest, which must fall before Progressive Era tactics. I just got a workable system of tactical progression down, so I bet you're confused. Forget I said anything, there's a new topic for that.
Snipers are easily countered. Standard infantry will always be the heart of teams, with artillery just support. With Tactical Theory's anti-artillery attack, a sniper should never be able to achieve more than one kill unless they are well supported or protected by a good obstacle and distance, like a reeds fringe across a brook.
I'm also not sure what to think of the enemies which face Aqua Labs technology. Do they use modern Fluid Era tactics? Seeing as they got taken down one by one in a base, I'd say no. How they fight can make one's own ability seem magnified or diminished. That goes for any warrior and any team.
Edited By Duxburian on 1158291445
Snipers are easily countered. Standard infantry will always be the heart of teams, with artillery just support. With Tactical Theory's anti-artillery attack, a sniper should never be able to achieve more than one kill unless they are well supported or protected by a good obstacle and distance, like a reeds fringe across a brook.
I'm also not sure what to think of the enemies which face Aqua Labs technology. Do they use modern Fluid Era tactics? Seeing as they got taken down one by one in a base, I'd say no. How they fight can make one's own ability seem magnified or diminished. That goes for any warrior and any team.
Edited By Duxburian on 1158291445
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
To Silent Guy:
I wasn't talking about using a bigger tank at lower pressure vs a smaller tank at higher pressure. I was trying to say, that if you pressurize a small tank to 80 PSI, then a large tank to 80 PSI, the large tank is more powerful, due to its larger "volume" of compressed air.
(Assuming that your valve is big enough to let the volume of air through fast enough)
To Duxburian:
I'm quoting AquaTech's web site here:
When and Where to Snipe
Snipers play a very specialized role on a soaker team. Their primary goal is to eliminate as many enemy threats with as little water as possible. Therefore in a battle the rules must state that one hit eliminates. Otherwise a Sniper is useless since his weapon of choice(the water balloon launcher) sacrifices water output capacity and rapid firing capabilities in return for great distance and stealth. Snipers also can only play a major role when the battle field is large. The larger the field the more of an advantage a Sniper has since he can better utilize the range of his weapon.
Primary goals for a Sniper
1 To eliminate as many threats as possible without being detected
2 To cause confusion within the enemy
3 To successfully complete all secondary objectives without enemy detection.
I wasn't talking about using a bigger tank at lower pressure vs a smaller tank at higher pressure. I was trying to say, that if you pressurize a small tank to 80 PSI, then a large tank to 80 PSI, the large tank is more powerful, due to its larger "volume" of compressed air.
(Assuming that your valve is big enough to let the volume of air through fast enough)
To Duxburian:
I'm quoting AquaTech's web site here:
When and Where to Snipe
Snipers play a very specialized role on a soaker team. Their primary goal is to eliminate as many enemy threats with as little water as possible. Therefore in a battle the rules must state that one hit eliminates. Otherwise a Sniper is useless since his weapon of choice(the water balloon launcher) sacrifices water output capacity and rapid firing capabilities in return for great distance and stealth. Snipers also can only play a major role when the battle field is large. The larger the field the more of an advantage a Sniper has since he can better utilize the range of his weapon.
Primary goals for a Sniper
1 To eliminate as many threats as possible without being detected
2 To cause confusion within the enemy
3 To successfully complete all secondary objectives without enemy detection.
The Maple-Mountain-Marines.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
I'm not sure as to the intended reason for attaching that passage. It's not like I didn't read that site...
Sniping is not a stand-alone position, unless you're in the Firepower Era or earlier. Modern Fluid Era snipers carry a good backup gun for performing other roles when necessary. Anyone bearing a launcher as a primary has responsibility for all artillery roles as well.
Good enemies don't get "confused" if they cannot determine where they are being shot from. They scatter into an offensive-defense formation utilizing cover, or melt away into thick cover if it is available. If there are additional enemy threats from somewhere else, then the team will either get the hell away from their current position or spread out and perform a lightning sweep of the surrounding area.
Knowing this, sniping duty should not be done as one attack. It should be part of a larger goal, such as a distraction ambush or some form of pincer. In fact, it would make for a superb distraction ambush.
Going back to the passage, it is stated that "the rules must state that one hit eliminates". That's not entirely true. Sniping is effective also in battles where one hit kills, but does NOT eliminate. 1HK Elimination is among the worst and most boring forms of the 1HK family.
Sniping is not a stand-alone position, unless you're in the Firepower Era or earlier. Modern Fluid Era snipers carry a good backup gun for performing other roles when necessary. Anyone bearing a launcher as a primary has responsibility for all artillery roles as well.
Good enemies don't get "confused" if they cannot determine where they are being shot from. They scatter into an offensive-defense formation utilizing cover, or melt away into thick cover if it is available. If there are additional enemy threats from somewhere else, then the team will either get the hell away from their current position or spread out and perform a lightning sweep of the surrounding area.
Knowing this, sniping duty should not be done as one attack. It should be part of a larger goal, such as a distraction ambush or some form of pincer. In fact, it would make for a superb distraction ambush.
Going back to the passage, it is stated that "the rules must state that one hit eliminates". That's not entirely true. Sniping is effective also in battles where one hit kills, but does NOT eliminate. 1HK Elimination is among the worst and most boring forms of the 1HK family.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
I kept referencing to his Web-site because you gave no sign that you had read it.
In another part of his web-site, it mentions his backup weapons.
1 modified CPS 1200, two SC 400 and an xp 220.
You are right about:
"Good enemies don't get "confused" if they cannot determine where they are being shot from."
But that was just an example of the use of an A-WBL.
As for using it in an ambush, I think the B-class would be better suited to that.
Since a B-WBL can fire a larger round than the A-class, but is still a more level-aim weapon than the C-class.
1HK Elimination or 1HK Re-spawn, what ever. The point is the sniper concept.
In another part of his web-site, it mentions his backup weapons.
1 modified CPS 1200, two SC 400 and an xp 220.
You are right about:
"Good enemies don't get "confused" if they cannot determine where they are being shot from."
But that was just an example of the use of an A-WBL.
As for using it in an ambush, I think the B-class would be better suited to that.
Since a B-WBL can fire a larger round than the A-class, but is still a more level-aim weapon than the C-class.
1HK Elimination or 1HK Re-spawn, what ever. The point is the sniper concept.
The Maple-Mountain-Marines.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
I've read pretty much every soaking site except for those which died before I came online.
I'm not crazy about the tactics or concepts on the Aqua Labs site because they are from an outdated stage in the progression of tactics. Those kind of tactics were locally ditched right around the beginnning of the 2005 season. As for that backup weapons, a sniping artilleryman should only need one, and it should be a sidearm, not a backup. That 12K would work fine on its own.
I'm not crazy about the tactics or concepts on the Aqua Labs site because they are from an outdated stage in the progression of tactics. Those kind of tactics were locally ditched right around the beginnning of the 2005 season. As for that backup weapons, a sniping artilleryman should only need one, and it should be a sidearm, not a backup. That 12K would work fine on its own.
marauder wrote:You have to explain things in terms that kids will understand, like videogames^ That's how I got Sam to stop using piston pumpers
I'm just wondering...how effective could one possibly be, trying to snipe out one guy with a WBL (doesn't matter what class it is) without being detected? And if you're trying to conserve water, another of AquaTech's requirements (not always necessary), you'll be wasting a lot more when you miss.
Of course a sniper is far more effective on a large battleground--but that doesn't mean he should be used there because of it. Why not use the WBL on a smaller, closed map too? For example, if you could, you should replace the barrel with a 4" one and then the splash damage would be brutal.
But that still requires a good working knowledge of WBLs, proper use, and still correct aim--with the added requirement of quick aiming. Possible? Yes. But at any distance, I wouldn't say that WBLs are the ultimate weapons.
I have a lot of respect for AquaTech and his WBL, which looks very well built, but these tactics should be taken with a grain of salt. Somewhere (I don't know where, it's been a long time since I viewed the site), he talks about how he shot at an enemy in their camp, but then was killed by ten people who were waiting for him.
Of course a sniper is far more effective on a large battleground--but that doesn't mean he should be used there because of it. Why not use the WBL on a smaller, closed map too? For example, if you could, you should replace the barrel with a 4" one and then the splash damage would be brutal.
But that still requires a good working knowledge of WBLs, proper use, and still correct aim--with the added requirement of quick aiming. Possible? Yes. But at any distance, I wouldn't say that WBLs are the ultimate weapons.
I have a lot of respect for AquaTech and his WBL, which looks very well built, but these tactics should be taken with a grain of salt. Somewhere (I don't know where, it's been a long time since I viewed the site), he talks about how he shot at an enemy in their camp, but then was killed by ten people who were waiting for him.
Do you mean attach a 4" barrel to an A-class?
Then you would have to give it a bigger air-tank for power, bigger valve and the whole thing would just turn into a D-class.
I wouldn't say that WBLs are the ultimate weapon either, but more of a support weapon in general. Artillery for bombardment, Bazookas for heavy in-battle support, Sniper Weapon for assassins. To make one that could be used as a main weapon in battle, it would have to have a fast reloading system and multiple shots before you had to reload.
Yes, he was tricked into showing his hand too soon, but that is part of the sniper aspect, knowing when and where to fire or stay low.
Then you would have to give it a bigger air-tank for power, bigger valve and the whole thing would just turn into a D-class.
I wouldn't say that WBLs are the ultimate weapon either, but more of a support weapon in general. Artillery for bombardment, Bazookas for heavy in-battle support, Sniper Weapon for assassins. To make one that could be used as a main weapon in battle, it would have to have a fast reloading system and multiple shots before you had to reload.
Yes, he was tricked into showing his hand too soon, but that is part of the sniper aspect, knowing when and where to fire or stay low.
The Maple-Mountain-Marines.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
Terrifying, but oddly refreshing.
-B.D.
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